BWri wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:55 amYou'd hardly be able to figure out anyone's strength with that sort of thinking
and it's just not how Dragon Ball works. In U6 alone Piccolo kept shattering everyone's expectations of himself which was a theme clearly shown in the text and via his performance in both mediums.
We found out fifteen years after the original series ended that neither base Goku nor, by extension, any of the humans, had ever eclipsed Namek-era Freeza despite many fan readings to the contrary.
I think there’s fair room to say that is, indeed, how
Dragon Ball works.
Of course characters can eclipse past villains without comment, but I can’t think of many instances of a major pecking order change, which Piccolo surpassing No. 17 would be, being glossed over entirely.
It’s also somewhat hard for me to align a character quietly reaching that level in this single instance when the arc takes care to undo Boo’s ascension into that realm by its end. That also seems indicative to me of what’s on Toyotaro’s mind re: God-tier characters, and the instances of teamwork and technique focus in
Super enough for me to have no issue with any presentational discrepancies in terms of Piccolo’s performance vs. No. 17’s. Especially since No. 17 and Gohan are equally trounced in their own when the coordinated teamwork element isn’t in play, despite Gohan being the undisputed top dog among good guys in the fight. Seems like a sign to read something other than raw strength into the slight, relative success of Gohan and Piccolo together in comparison.
Of course Piccolo has improved, but if the question we’re getting at here is “Does Toyotaro think Piccolo is SSG level?”, I would say “Probably not.”
Fans have a tendency to overestimate the intended level of characters based on incidental bits of action (look no further than this thread, in which we have people claiming anime Trunks is supposed to have been Blue-level based on taking or not taking certain hits, despite his awe over the form and later attainment of one closer to—but still not matching—it being plot points), and especially in this particular case we’re given other angles from which to read how the action plays out.
Re: U6:
In the manga, Piccolo is praised for his tenacity, but notably not his power. When Toyotaro wants to make a point of a power-up, you get dialogue like Piccolo and Gohan receive in the Moro arc.
When he wants to make a point of a significant change in level or pecking order, you get dialogue like Trunks receives vs. Goku, No. 17 and Gohan receive in the ToP arc, or Boo does on Namek, where surprise at ascension to a particular level is noted.
If Toyotaro wanted to toss a cheerful “You might even have been able to give me a hard time when I first fought Lord Beerus!” line from Goku in, he isn’t above it. A line from No. 17 about Piccolo seeming to have eclipsed him would have been even more seamless. Not only do we not get that line, we end on Boo’s noted power-down, as if to establish that it isn’t a level Toyotaro expects main cast members to reach willy-nilly, and especially, one would assume, silently.
I don’t know where people are getting the idea from that dialogue references have not been the series’—either of them but especially
Super’s—bread and butter in terms of power-up and relative strength confirmation.
In the corner of Piccolo not being God-level, I see a wealth of authorial precedence in terms of how both series have tended to operate, while in the corner of Piccolo being God-level, I see a particular reading of a handful of action panels, logic the likes of which has historically led to silly conclusions like Trunks being intended to be even with Blue.
