is piccolo god level in the manga?

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Tai Lung
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is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:16 pm

How easy is it to get to that level now, right?
Well first it was gohan very easily so it is not surprising that that happened, I think that now there is no reason to doubt it but well

-Piccolo is the only one who can keep up the battle with gohan against sagambo (remember that gohan tied with kefla stronger than goku ssb Top Arc)
-After goku returns stronger, piccolo realizes that goku has surpassed him again implying that he was not that far from him
-A factr remarkable proof is that piccolo threatens Moro with extermination with everything around the barrier ... and Moro does not risk receiving the attack
What do you think piccolo's level?

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Thani » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:55 pm

I think it was more Moro being pragmatical about it... But yes, Piccolo apparently has been portrayed as at least close to Gohan. It's not something that I mind, but it has ZERO foreshadowing or build up about it.

In which case... Classic Dragonball, I guess. It bothers me, but whatever.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:09 pm

I guess it’s his time to enter the chat. All the classic Dragon Ball villains are up there with Super Saiyan Blue. Piccolo was the only one missing, I think. Now that Goku and Vegeta are surpassing real godly threshold, there is little to no relevance to Super Saiyan forms nowadays.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:20 pm

Thani wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:55 pm I think it was more Moro being pragmatical about it... But yes, Piccolo apparently has been portrayed as at least close to Gohan. It's not something that I mind, but it has ZERO foreshadowing or build up about it.

In which case... Classic Dragonball, I guess. It bothers me, but whatever.
Well, Piccolo trained with Ultimate Gohan for 2 months. In the anime by training one day he managed to climb from Boo arc SS2 to current base level (Who demolishes anything on the Boo arc bar Vegetto) so him getting to SSG tier thanks to that isn't that unbelievable.

Toei most likely will show them training.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Lionel » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:54 pm

Adding to what others have said, I would say that Piccolo can firmly handle just about anyone from the Tournament of Power now up until Dyspo using the parameters of the manga. Granted it's inflationary with little rhyme or reason to it sans the Namekian simply being a proximal benefactor of Gohan's amazing potential and capacity to grow in strength rapidly when he trains.

What else is there to say? Who knows when the next occasion to prop Piccolo up next to Gohan as a distractive placeholder duo will be.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:49 am

Piccolo is definitely God level in the manga, given that he was able to keep up with a Gohan that was FAR stronger than the Gohan from the ToP, which is a Gohan that far surpassed God level (although still below Blue level).

It's unknown where Piccolo is exactly, but many people have different opinions regarding this. We know for a fact that he should be above Androids 17 and 18, and Android 17 was already above SSJ3, and got stronger during the Moro Saga. This Current Piccolo should be even stronger than that.

Against ToP fighters from other universes, I can see Current Piccolo defeating literally everyone with the exception of the Blue tier and above characters like Jiren, Toppo, Hit and Kefla (and by extension Kale). He should defeat someone like Dyspo very easily.

These gains can easily be explained due to him training with someone far stronger than himself, in this case Ultimate Gohan. It happened before when Piccolo reached SSJ level in just 3 years training with SSJ Goku during the Android Saga, despite the fact that he used to be far weaker than Base Goku during the Frieza Saga.

It doesn't make much sense due to SSG being considered a whole different level during BoG for Piccolo to catch up, and some people might argue this. But this is DBS, and things usually don't make much sense. People might also argue that Piccolo's power up shouldn't be as big due it not being mentioned constantly or hyped anywhere. But here is the thing, it doesn't need to be hyped since the focus is mostly on Goku and Vegeta's increase and also about the opponents Saganbo and Moro. Piccolo's feats against Saganbo, as well as Goku's "barely recognizable" statement, already show how big of an increase Piccolo got in this current arc.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by BWri » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:25 am

Quite simply, yes. Piccolo appeared to be stronger than #17 and is fighting at a level similar to Gohan after training for Moro's invasion for 2 months. He assumed that his last ditch effort, an attack that would wipe out all his nearby friends and allies would do significant damage to a Moro who was much stronger than a powered up SSBE Vegeta and UI Omen Goku.

Piccolo was already at god level if you scale Frost to Frieza during the U6 tournament arc. But even if you keep conservative estimates like I do and lowball things for Piccolo, there's no doubt he's god tier now. You can lowball him at SSJ 3 tier with massively amped attacks if you want but there's really no justification to put him below that considering how he performed vs. Moro and Saganbo.

It really speaks to Piccolo's potential. Even without transformations or godly training (since he didn't do much with King Kai) Piccolo still manages to remain a contender despite the insane escalation of power between the Saiyan protagonists and their new foes. He really is the perfect training partner for Gohan when you think about it, considering they're not far apart in age and even their potentials seem similar if you consider the wicked power boosts both have had in the past.

The funny thing is, if Vegeta was what, somewhere between SS3 and SSG Goku with his rage boost vs. Beerus then Piccolo is definitely above that range and another perfect candidate to be trained by Whis. Hell, just give him Kaioken and he's top tier again.
dragonball0900 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:49 am It doesn't make much sense due to SSG being considered a whole different level during BoG for Piccolo to catch up, and some people might argue this.

They botched that whole thing when they let Frieza reach this level with no need for God ki. Same with Hit and especially Jiren. Too many mortals are able to scrap with these "gods" for it to matter.
But this is DBS, and things usually don't make much sense.

I keep telling folks that there are no hard limits in DB. Even this stuff with Granolah, I'm sure he could also experience a limit break like everyone else from our main cast.
People might also argue that Piccolo's power up shouldn't be as big due it not being mentioned constantly or hyped anywhere. But here is the thing, it doesn't need to be hyped since the focus is mostly on Goku and Vegeta's increase and also about the opponents Saganbo and Moro. Piccolo's feats against Saganbo, as well as Goku's "barely recognizable" statement, already show how big of an increase Piccolo got in this current arc.
I've debated this very point on these forums before. Just because he isn't the focus doesn't mean his developments don't count especially when the story is throwing these developments right in our faces.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Thani » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:29 pm

BWri wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:25 am It really speaks to Piccolo's potential. Even without transformations or godly training (since he didn't do much with King Kai) Piccolo still manages to remain a contender despite the insane escalation of power between the Saiyan protagonists and their new foes. He really is the perfect training partner for Gohan when you think about it, considering they're not far apart in age and even their potentials seem similar if you consider the wicked power boosts both have had in the past.
While I agree with the basics of your post, I'd just like to say that the narrative pretty much wanted us to believe that Piccolo peaked out at the Buu saga. So when people are dumbfounded about his new level of power, is because of what Toriyama previously made us believe in.

But it's good that Piccolo, and the rest, are having their time to shine. I'd argue that we all only wanted for it to make better sense.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:52 pm

BWri wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:25 am They botched that whole thing when they let Frieza reach this level with no need for God ki. Same with Hit and especially Jiren. Too many mortals are able to scrap with these "gods" for it to matter.
It seems to me more clear evidence that toyotaro does not know how to handle coherence in the levels at least frieza and gohan had their excuse of being special
jiren and hit were from another universe

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:42 pm

I don't believe making a good team with a blue level character makes you blue level without a doubt, Dyspo and Toppo were a pretty good team in the Manga and weren't even close.
I also don't think Piccolo trying one last thing against the strongest enemy ever inside a dome when everybody else was defeated means anything, what else could he do besides giving it all he's got? Moro's concern was about the bodies getting smoked before absorbing them. I mean, it's not like he actually pulled it off or was some sort of problem for Moro.

That being said, I see no point in having Piccolo be a part of the fight without being at least God level. I'm not convinced by the in-universe stuff that happened but with by out of universe reasons.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by batistabus » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:02 pm

Anything impressive he does is paired with Gohan. Self destruct uses up ones life force, so it's more powerful than that fighter would otherwise be. I'd say at most he's around SS3 (similar to ToP No.17), but it's not really possible to know with the given information.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:32 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:42 pm I don't believe making a good team with a blue level character makes you blue level without a doubt, Dyspo and Toppo were a pretty good team in the Manga and weren't even close.
To be fair in this case, Toppo was clearly holding back to be on the same level as Dyspo when fighting against Goku or Vegeta with transformations that were far weaker than Blue. Otherwise, a full power Toppo would have easily one shot SSJ/SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta. Once Vegeta transformed into CSSB, Dyspo was simply tossed aside and Vegeta kept fighting with Toppo on the same level.

But in Gohan and Piccolo's case, Piccolo was clearly doing a good team with Gohan against Saganbo, who was far stronger than even Gohan. I doubt a team between the two would be possible if Piccolo was so, so far behind Gohan. And Piccolo would just get in the way if that was the case (similar to their anime fight against the U6 Namekians when Piccolo got trashed and was only useful for the SBC while Ultimate Gohan kept on fighting them).

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:49 pm

I don't think it's Piccolo being implied to be as strong as Gohan, or anything along those lines. I believe he's just fulfilling the support role. A majority, if not nearly all of the the power coming from those attacks are from Gohan.

Even when he planned to blow himself up against Moro, it's very possible that was just his final futile attempt.

I don't believe god tiers are easy to reach. I don't even think 17 in the manga is implied to be near SSB, as he struggles briefly with SS3 Goku.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:45 pm

There is a big difference in the tournament, the warriors have to save energy, limit themselves so as not to kill the opponent and make use of teamwork in top anime and manga ... but it makes no sense in the fight with Sagambo where they had to fight to the death ... in addition to a17 and a18 couldn't keep up with both of them even though they had unlimited energy ...

Moro is not want to receive the Piccolo's attack unlike Cell

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:13 pm

Piccolo is not God level. Heck, 17 was said to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta and at most he was SSG level. It is much more reasonable to assume that it is easier for Piccolo to keep up with Gohan due to the fact that they have always trained together (and in the Moro arc, having specifically trained combined techniques and counters for 73) than to claim that he skipped several tiers of strength in 2 months of training. He, alongside the strongest warriors on Earth (including those who are in fact God level), was being annihilated by powered up Saganbo who was easily defeated by SSB Goku alone (a stronger one, yes, but still in that same tier). This is like saying that 18 is as strong as 17 because of the way they fought together.

Not being explicitly said by the narrative, it is hard to believe that. It is no different from people believing that Gohan was MSSB level in the manga for defeating Kefla, although it was clearly stated by Krillin that he was weaker than Goku

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:23 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:13 pm Not being explicitly said by the narrative, it is hard to believe that. It is no different from people believing that Gohan was MSSB level in the manga for defeating Kefla, although it was clearly stated by Krillin that he was weaker than Goku
the difference is that krillin is krillin ... he does not feel the god ki so vados and champa say the opposite which if they can feel it and they saw the fight of goku and toppo

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:47 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:49 pm I don't think it's Piccolo being implied to be as strong as Gohan, or anything along those lines. I believe he's just fulfilling the support role. A majority, if not nearly all of the the power coming from those attacks are from Gohan.

Even when he planned to blow himself up against Moro, it's very possible that was just his final futile attempt.

I don't believe god tiers are easy to reach. I don't even think 17 in the manga is implied to be near SSB, as he struggles briefly with SS3 Goku.
Goku straight up says 17 is almost as powerful as him.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by pepd » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:14 am

Until we get a confirmation by events that suggest they are part of the outlines, I'll take the most simple explanations that doesn't constitute a mayor change in the status quo, like Piccolo just trying a desperate final move knowing it wont work, those generic statements about power as being just an exaggerated expression, characters being able to fight in team despite their difference in power, etc. Especially when they are evidently empty fanservice, and come from the arc that followed the anime's ending and probably was trying to continue some of it's take.

I would guess he is not much more powerful than his DB self. Maybe close to Cell.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:29 am

pepd wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:14 am I would guess he is not much more powerful than his DB self. Maybe close to Cell.
Now I totally disagree with this bit.

Even if Piccolo might not be god level (which he might be or not), there's no way he's just barely around Cell's level. He outperformed 17, who is at least SSJ3 tier.

Whatever level 17 might be depending on anyone's opinion (SSJ3, SSG or low SSB like in RoF or so), Piccolo should scale above that, since he did far better against Saganbo. I'm pretty sure that's what the story is saying: Piccolo is clearly the 4th strongest fighter on Earth behind Goku, Vegeta and Gohan.

Piccolo is known to receive very high boosts from way back in the Android Saga when he trains against someone far stronger and at the same time when there's a future threat coming like in both Saiyan and Android Saga. It's no different here. Piccolo should at least far surpass SSJ3 level since training with a powerful hybrid saiyan like Gohan should definitely increase his level to considerable degrees.

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Re: is piccolo god level in the manga?

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:06 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:47 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:49 pm I don't think it's Piccolo being implied to be as strong as Gohan, or anything along those lines. I believe he's just fulfilling the support role. A majority, if not nearly all of the the power coming from those attacks are from Gohan.

Even when he planned to blow himself up against Moro, it's very possible that was just his final futile attempt.

I don't believe god tiers are easy to reach. I don't even think 17 in the manga is implied to be near SSB, as he struggles briefly with SS3 Goku.
Goku straight up says 17 is almost as powerful as him.
The problem with that is 17 lacks ki, so Goku can't be talking about something only he knows and the audience doesn't. He only faced him as SS3, so even if he knew he would be falling short against him with that form, there's a huge jump from SS3 to SSB. The ToP proved 17 isn't strong enough to eliminate Dyspo without wearing him out. The Moro arc also supports 17 is below the big power levels of the heroes.
That statement ends up being another Manga fumble. It actually works if applied to the anime where 17 is seen facing blue level characters more than once.

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