Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

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GodVegetto91
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Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat May 01, 2021 9:37 pm

He already has Ultra Instinct, and it goes entirely against his nature to be destructive. Hakai is already Vegeta’s thing. He doesn’t have any UI at all, so he’s allowed to have all the destructive power that one can get. The in-universe reason that they could give for this change of events is that since Goku has now gone deeper into the UI state, he has lost the ability, as that ability requiers your mind to be on absolute destruction (and UI simply doesn’t have that). If all goes well and justice is served, Goku loses the ability, and Vegeta will once again be 2 levels above Goku in terms of destructive power.

True Hakai >>>>>> Imperfect Hakai (The one that turns things to sand or dust, rather than absolute nothingness) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normal Ki Blasts.

What do you think?
Last edited by GodVegetto91 on Tue May 11, 2021 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by BWri » Sun May 02, 2021 6:02 pm

At the end of the day, Hakai isn't really much of a game changer. In a different series I would care, but Dragon Ball's fight mechanics always default back to the status quo. If Hakai is utilized correctly then it means fights would have bigger stakes because Hakai blasts would atomize limbs or the whole body and soul to nothingness. And I wish that characters needed to train with Hakai to block its effects or would otherwise be forced to dodging it. Tying it to power levels makes it not much different from normal ki blasts.

But to answer your question directly, I don't really care that Goku has an imperfect version of Hakai. With Vegeta having imperfect IT, maybe Goku will go the Vegeta route and decide not to use it since his rival is using it, though Goku doesn't seem built like that. It's all pride from Vegeta. So no, Goku shouldn't be locked out of the little he knows about Hakai just because he's using angelic abilities. It's not like a video game skill tree, like some light side, dark side jedi type thing. Goku's just always been a swiss army knife of techniques.
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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon May 03, 2021 2:30 pm

he shouldn't lose access to any technique he did learn.

He should just stop using it because it's not his(current) style.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by Tai Lung » Wed May 05, 2021 3:16 pm

It never made sense that he had it in the first place ...

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by JewyB » Thu May 06, 2021 5:18 am

I dont think he even has access to it. Whilst we've seen him attempt it, he said explicitly he got it wrong. If the story tells us Goku can't do it, i will take that as true.

Otherwise we have to claim Vegeta has access to Ultra Instinct, because whilst he hasnt done it, he knows the principals and attempted it himself, despite failing.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by Tai Lung » Fri May 07, 2021 3:45 pm

JewyB wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:18 am I dont think he even has access to it. Whilst we've seen him attempt it, he said explicitly he got it wrong. If the story tells us Goku can't do it, i will take that as true.

Otherwise we have to claim Vegeta has access to Ultra Instinct, because whilst he hasnt done it, he knows the principals and attempted it himself, despite failing.
He was literally erasing Zamasu ...
with vegeta the reason why goku was the most indicated is explained
goku needs a "trigger" for that to happen

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by JewyB » Fri May 07, 2021 6:54 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:45 pm He was literally erasing Zamasu ...
with vegeta the reason why goku was the most indicated is explained
goku needs a "trigger" for that to happen
He also literally said he didn't do it correctly. Just because it appeared that way doesn't mean he was using Hakai perfectly. Otherwise every ki blast in a kamehameha.

We have to trust what the story says, not how things appear.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by Tai Lung » Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 pm

JewyB wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:54 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:45 pm He was literally erasing Zamasu ...
with vegeta the reason why goku was the most indicated is explained
goku needs a "trigger" for that to happen
He also literally said he didn't do it correctly. Just because it appeared that way doesn't mean he was using Hakai perfectly. Otherwise every ki blast in a kamehameha.

We have to trust what the story says, not how things appear.


but beerus explains to goku that not even he could have erased zamasu ... so it doesn't really matter since goku was doing better than beerus would ...

clearly there is a retcon currently ... not that it is very hard to figure out

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by JewyB » Sat May 08, 2021 2:41 am

Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 pm but beerus explains to goku that not even he could have erased zamasu ... so it doesn't really matter since goku was doing better than beerus would ...

clearly there is a retcon currently ... not that it is very hard to figure out
Exactly, there has been a retcon, that Goku could not use hakai. It isn't hard to figure out which is why i'm wondering how it is hard to grasp that it is now established Goku cannot use hakai.

You are correcting me with old information, whilst pointing out there is new, more upto date information, which is what i have been pointing out.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by ankokudaishogun » Tue May 11, 2021 8:24 am

Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 pm but beerus explains to goku that not even he could have erased zamasu ... so it doesn't really matter since goku was doing better than beerus would ...
The implication was that Zamasu would have recovered even from a full Hakai from Beerus, not that Hakai wouldn't affect him.

Goku went and used an incomplete and imperfect version of Hakai on Zamasu, and never mastered that technique after then.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by Tai Lung » Tue May 11, 2021 5:41 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:24 am
Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 pm but beerus explains to goku that not even he could have erased zamasu ... so it doesn't really matter since goku was doing better than beerus would ...
The implication was that Zamasu would have recovered even from a full Hakai from Beerus, not that Hakai wouldn't affect him.

Goku went and used an incomplete and imperfect version of Hakai on Zamasu, and never mastered that technique after then.
Unlike the anime version ... that was never verified ... Zamasu's soul is still alive ... while the hakai erases body and soul

Well that ... zamasu was being erased like his version of the present did ... basically without any difference.

basically there is a retcon to turn hakai into something more complex than he was ...

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu May 13, 2021 4:41 am

or, you know: he would have recovered fully after being totally Hakai'd exactly in the same manner as he did recover when he was half-hakai'd.


Seriously. It's not hard.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by Kinokima » Thu May 13, 2021 11:15 pm

JewyB wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:54 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:45 pm He was literally erasing Zamasu ...
with vegeta the reason why goku was the most indicated is explained
goku needs a "trigger" for that to happen
He also literally said he didn't do it correctly. Just because it appeared that way doesn't mean he was using Hakai perfectly. Otherwise every ki blast in a kamehameha.

We have to trust what the story says, not how things appear.
This! Like I get it was a retcon and at that moment they probably wanted Goku to use Hakai but now the story is backtracking and saying no it wasn’t really Hakai.

There is no such thing as “imperfect Hakai” at least not based on anything we have been told.

It’s not like Goku using Hakai out of nowhere meant anything beyond oh that’s a cool moment. So who cares that it’s a retcon. There have been far worse ones.

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Re: Goku should lose access to the ability to utilize the imperfect version of Hakai now

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri May 14, 2021 6:21 am

In the Manga, Zamasu’s soul most likely still exists and resides in the otherworld as a bodiless spirit. As Beerus’ “Hakai” only turned him to sand as opposed to total nothingness.

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