Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:33 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:20 pmHa, sure, let me just-

*sees that the only sources are CBR and Comicbook.com*

...Shit.
Shit indeed. Toriyama never said that. And one of the reasons why he never said that is because we also don't have anything saying Dragon Ball has a canon to begin with. I don't think Toriyama and his friends care about this.

Still, hopefully Android 21 does make an appearance in the movie. This could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship...
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:15 am

Why the hell would anyone believe “21” is canon? Especially considering fans say FighterZ isn’t canon...
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Yuji » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:32 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:15 am Why the hell would anyone believe “21” is canon? Especially considering fans say FighterZ isn’t canon...
She was designed by Toriyama and has been included in every game since FighterZ. Doesn't really mean anything but that's more of a claim than a lot of other characters.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 am

It would be interesting if it was #21. I haven't played any of the recent games but I liked her concept. In the trailer we saw a computer showing images of the Z fighters including Buu so maybe they worked on an upgraded Cell with more DNA. It's a pretty common fan idea but convenient way to make a new antagonist and could be different since this is more of a light-hearted story. Jump Festa is in two weeks so hopefully we learn more about the movie and antagonists.


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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:05 pm

Skar wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 am It would be interesting if it was #21. I haven't played any of the recent games but I liked her concept. In the trailer we saw a computer showing images of the Z fighters including Buu so maybe they worked on an upgraded Cell with more DNA. It's a pretty common fan idea but convenient way to make a new antagonist and could be different since this is more of a light-hearted story. Jump Festa is in two weeks so hopefully we learn more about the movie and antagonists.
Or it could be not so light hearted story after all, because we all know Toriyama likes to subvert expectation.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by capsulecorp » Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:18 pm

Mr_CINDER wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:05 pm
Skar wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 am It would be interesting if it was #21. I haven't played any of the recent games but I liked her concept. In the trailer we saw a computer showing images of the Z fighters including Buu so maybe they worked on an upgraded Cell with more DNA. It's a pretty common fan idea but convenient way to make a new antagonist and could be different since this is more of a light-hearted story. Jump Festa is in two weeks so hopefully we learn more about the movie and antagonists.
Or it could be not so light hearted story after all, because we all know Toriyama likes to subvert expectation.
His "light hearted", "low stakes" work is some of his most poignant, especially recently. Jaco, for example.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:51 pm

If Goku is fighting, they'll probably have weaker enemies for Pan and Piccolo to fight. Then they'll have a bigger threat at the end for Goku to jump in and help with.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:46 pm

I definitely like 21's design and the concept of a Majin-esque android. It would be cool if she was the secret villain of the film.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 am

Not a fan of 21 being in the film actually. Besides the weird stuff about the souls taking over the characters (you as a player), that won't work and was quite unnecesary, the story was quite realized.
I kinda liked it, it was better than what we are used to in video games, together with the idea that it is basically Cell 2.0 but with Buu abilities.
As Buu is my most favorite villain, man!

I am afraid that the new story in the film might clash, as there is not much of a canon in the series and I had already hard time to accept the new Broly, who was good and definitely better than the old one, which I didn't like much to begin with and now I have to deal with two Brolys in video game world. Might be fun, if Dragon Ball had it's own multiverse, but that would clash as the idea is already there on two levels, Timelines and different universes, that actually mirror themselves to an extent, like having Namekians and Saiyans, but not with the same characters.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:16 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 am Not a fan of 21 being in the film actually. Besides the weird stuff about the souls taking over the characters (you as a player), that won't work and was quite unnecesary, the story was quite realized.
I kinda liked it, it was better than what we are used to in video games, together with the idea that it is basically Cell 2.0 but with Buu abilities.
As Buu is my most favorite villain, man!

I am afraid that the new story in the film might clash, as there is not much of a canon in the series and I had already hard time to accept the new Broly, who was good and definitely better than the old one, which I didn't like much to begin with and now I have to deal with two Brolys in video game world. Might be fun, if Dragon Ball had it's own multiverse, but that would clash as the idea is already there on two levels, Timelines and different universes, that actually mirror themselves to an extent, like having Namekians and Saiyans, but not with the same characters.
Good written villain are that kind of people who you can root for and sympathize with just like new Broly(Toriyama really made him awesome), many other example's would be Pain from naruto, Meruem from Hunter X Hunter, Shogo Makishima(Psycho Pass) although he was kinda insane but still you can root for him little bit because at end of the day Sibyl system was faulty. But Buu falls under the force of nature type of villain ,yes he was awesome psychotic badass but unfortunately in this day and age this type of villains are outdated. Now its all about relatability, and how much you can sympathize for. So if the rumor about 21 is true I hope they follow this trend because the day of power obsessed insane and force of nature type villains are outdated.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:16 am
MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 am Not a fan of 21 being in the film actually. Besides the weird stuff about the souls taking over the characters (you as a player), that won't work and was quite unnecesary, the story was quite realized.
I kinda liked it, it was better than what we are used to in video games, together with the idea that it is basically Cell 2.0 but with Buu abilities.
As Buu is my most favorite villain, man!

I am afraid that the new story in the film might clash, as there is not much of a canon in the series and I had already hard time to accept the new Broly, who was good and definitely better than the old one, which I didn't like much to begin with and now I have to deal with two Brolys in video game world. Might be fun, if Dragon Ball had it's own multiverse, but that would clash as the idea is already there on two levels, Timelines and different universes, that actually mirror themselves to an extent, like having Namekians and Saiyans, but not with the same characters.
Good written villain are that kind of people who you can root for and sympathize with just like new Broly(Toriyama really made him awesome), many other example's would be Pain from naruto, Meruem from Hunter X Hunter, Shogo Makishima(Psycho Pass) although he was kinda insane but still you can root for him little bit because at end of the day Sibyl system was faulty. But Buu falls under the force of nature type of villain ,yes he was awesome psychotic badass but unfortunately in this day and age this type of villains are outdated. Now its all about relatability, and how much you can sympathize for. So if the rumor about 21 is true I hope they follow this trend because the day of power obsessed insane and force of nature type villains are outdated.
Sure, times have changed and Batman is not only a guy who dresses as a bat for sport, but human being with soul and obsession and PTSD and Superman is tragic figure as well, facing xenophobia...

But for a kid I was, was force of nature with awesome, practical and simple design and I have enjoyed his ability to absorb and gain the techniques and brains of the absorbed characters. It was genious back in the day combined with his look and it gave a different sense of dread to 11 year old me.
Combining this with Android 21s backstory of being actually a 16s mother, basically being a Professor Hojo mumo jumbo from Final Fantasy VII with Buu's abilities, was awesome for me.
The original manga run from Toriyama to me was a piece of genius work in it's simplicity and he kinda made all of his ideas back then,
so we definitely need some interesting progression nowadays to be based on current trends and as Broly was kinda on the edge for me, I wouldn't like a video game character to be reimagined, as her story to me was kinda done.

Except for Battle Of Gods, if we take the standalone movies so far, they are basically recycled concepts:
Ressurection F - Freeza is back! Another transformation to catching up on his side-story brother - another Super Saiyan - dumbed down description, being a recolors basically.
Broly - Slightly redesigned Broly, with better backstory, slightly recolored Gogeta - basically fan favorites from Z movies.
Super Hero - no more concrete info so far, besides that Red Ribbon Army is back again! Well, it was quite a plot twist and fun retcon in Z about Dr. Gero having revenge on Goku, but they really need some serious reason to go back. Of course, like with Freeza and Broly, it is basically a building up on something, that was succesful before and not taking much risks actually.

Really hope the movie will be fun, but so far, I feel like going through the 12 Gold Palaces for the 4th time, like in Saint Seiya again :lol:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:49 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:16 am
MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 am Not a fan of 21 being in the film actually. Besides the weird stuff about the souls taking over the characters (you as a player), that won't work and was quite unnecesary, the story was quite realized.
I kinda liked it, it was better than what we are used to in video games, together with the idea that it is basically Cell 2.0 but with Buu abilities.
As Buu is my most favorite villain, man!

I am afraid that the new story in the film might clash, as there is not much of a canon in the series and I had already hard time to accept the new Broly, who was good and definitely better than the old one, which I didn't like much to begin with and now I have to deal with two Brolys in video game world. Might be fun, if Dragon Ball had it's own multiverse, but that would clash as the idea is already there on two levels, Timelines and different universes, that actually mirror themselves to an extent, like having Namekians and Saiyans, but not with the same characters.
Good written villain are that kind of people who you can root for and sympathize with just like new Broly(Toriyama really made him awesome), many other example's would be Pain from naruto, Meruem from Hunter X Hunter, Shogo Makishima(Psycho Pass) although he was kinda insane but still you can root for him little bit because at end of the day Sibyl system was faulty. But Buu falls under the force of nature type of villain ,yes he was awesome psychotic badass but unfortunately in this day and age this type of villains are outdated. Now its all about relatability, and how much you can sympathize for. So if the rumor about 21 is true I hope they follow this trend because the day of power obsessed insane and force of nature type villains are outdated.
Sure, times have changed and Batman is not only a guy who dresses as a bat for sport, but human being with soul and obsession and PTSD and Superman is tragic figure as well, facing xenophobia...

But for a kid I was, was force of nature with awesome, practical and simple design and I have enjoyed his ability to absorb and gain the techniques and brains of the absorbed characters. It was genious back in the day combined with his look and it gave a different sense of dread to 11 year old me.
Combining this with Android 21s backstory of being actually a 16s mother, basically being a Professor Hojo mumo jumbo from Final Fantasy VII with Buu's abilities, was awesome for me.
The original manga run from Toriyama to me was a piece of genius work in it's simplicity and he kinda made all of his ideas back then,
so we definitely need some interesting progression nowadays to be based on current trends and as Broly was kinda on the edge for me, I wouldn't like a video game character to be reimagined, as her story to me was kinda done.

Except for Battle Of Gods, if we take the standalone movies so far, they are basically recycled concepts:
Ressurection F - Freeza is back! Another transformation to catching up on his side-story brother - another Super Saiyan - dumbed down description, being a recolors basically.
Broly - Slightly redesigned Broly, with better backstory, slightly recolored Gogeta - basically fan favorites from Z movies.
Super Hero - no more concrete info so far, besides that Red Ribbon Army is back again! Well, it was quite a plot twist and fun retcon in Z about Dr. Gero having revenge on Goku, but they really need some serious reason to go back. Of course, like with Freeza and Broly, it is basically a building up on something, that was succesful before and not taking much risks actually.

Really hope the movie will be fun, but so far, I feel like going through the 12 Gold Palaces for the 4th time, like in Saint Seiya again :lol:
Absolutely Nothing will beat Toriyama and nothing beat Dragon Ball Its a Genius work and as i said Toriyama has done enough for the industry like Lucas did for the film industry ,in my eyes they both are Geniuses. But unfortunately times have changed gone are the day of simplicity and fun now its all about relatability, you have to make thought provoking story, this and that its all kinda depressing, even video games are facing this issue. I dont know if you have played the HALO games but few minutes ago i have been watching halo infinite review and the main complain for this game is that its not thought provoking, villain is generic ,not too much info about how fun the gameplay is or how impressive the map designs are.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:00 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:49 am
MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:16 am
Good written villain are that kind of people who you can root for and sympathize with just like new Broly(Toriyama really made him awesome), many other example's would be Pain from naruto, Meruem from Hunter X Hunter, Shogo Makishima(Psycho Pass) although he was kinda insane but still you can root for him little bit because at end of the day Sibyl system was faulty. But Buu falls under the force of nature type of villain ,yes he was awesome psychotic badass but unfortunately in this day and age this type of villains are outdated. Now its all about relatability, and how much you can sympathize for. So if the rumor about 21 is true I hope they follow this trend because the day of power obsessed insane and force of nature type villains are outdated.
Sure, times have changed and Batman is not only a guy who dresses as a bat for sport, but human being with soul and obsession and PTSD and Superman is tragic figure as well, facing xenophobia...

But for a kid I was, was force of nature with awesome, practical and simple design and I have enjoyed his ability to absorb and gain the techniques and brains of the absorbed characters. It was genious back in the day combined with his look and it gave a different sense of dread to 11 year old me.
Combining this with Android 21s backstory of being actually a 16s mother, basically being a Professor Hojo mumo jumbo from Final Fantasy VII with Buu's abilities, was awesome for me.
The original manga run from Toriyama to me was a piece of genius work in it's simplicity and he kinda made all of his ideas back then,
so we definitely need some interesting progression nowadays to be based on current trends and as Broly was kinda on the edge for me, I wouldn't like a video game character to be reimagined, as her story to me was kinda done.

Except for Battle Of Gods, if we take the standalone movies so far, they are basically recycled concepts:
Ressurection F - Freeza is back! Another transformation to catching up on his side-story brother - another Super Saiyan - dumbed down description, being a recolors basically.
Broly - Slightly redesigned Broly, with better backstory, slightly recolored Gogeta - basically fan favorites from Z movies.
Super Hero - no more concrete info so far, besides that Red Ribbon Army is back again! Well, it was quite a plot twist and fun retcon in Z about Dr. Gero having revenge on Goku, but they really need some serious reason to go back. Of course, like with Freeza and Broly, it is basically a building up on something, that was succesful before and not taking much risks actually.

Really hope the movie will be fun, but so far, I feel like going through the 12 Gold Palaces for the 4th time, like in Saint Seiya again :lol:
Absolutely Nothing will beat Toriyama and nothing beat Dragon Ball Its a Genius work and as i said Toriyama has done enough for the industry like Lucas did for the film industry ,in my eyes they both are Geniuses. But unfortunately times have changed gone are the day of simplicity and fun now its all about relatability, you have to make thought provoking story, this and that its all kinda depressing, even video games are facing this issue. I dont know if you have played the HALO games but few minutes ago i have been watching halo infinite review and the main complain for this game is that its not thought provoking, villain is generic ,not too much info about how fun the gameplay is or how impressive the map designs are.
Yeah, I get that completely, just can't imagine how can be a Japanese IP aimed at elementary school kids a thought provoking.
Even the new live action version of Alladin made a one thought provoking change, to make princess Yasmine a sultan and fight for equality in a way, that kids can understand and girls in the target group can relate to, princess becoming a sultan in a same manner how Robin was made so kids can relate with old man with billions.
So I guess, having Pan into a more major role for Japanese girls to have someone to relate to will be the only thing that might differentiate the movie from others.
In Super, everyone elevates Zamasu, but he's not that complex actually, he is like the detective in Yu Yu Hakusho, who saw people doing really bad stuff and now wants to destroy them, to get rid of the bad stuff.
Same, Tournament Of Power, Jiren is a burnt loner, who doesn't trust anyone and Goku teaches him how friends matter and Android 17 shows, that you should think of others.

Basically simple thought provoking stuff for elementary school kids, so here I have to disagree a bit, as we are really old for this series, so we try to see and reason with it with and late teen or adult optic, but it is still a show for wide demographic of elementary school kids and probably, their parents who saw the series as they were kids as well and will go see it with their children.
But there will never really be any intricate plot twist or character deconstruction beside some basic tropes and inventing a new ways, how to make these tropes still fresh after what came before.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:48 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 am So I guess, having Pan into a more major role for Japanese girls to have someone to relate to will be the only thing that might differentiate the movie from others.
Thats a good point because I dont know if you know this but majority of demon slayer movie goers were female in japan so it could be another reason they are going with pan so that girls can relate to.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:32 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:48 am
MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 am So I guess, having Pan into a more major role for Japanese girls to have someone to relate to will be the only thing that might differentiate the movie from others.
I dont know if you know this but majority of demon slayer movie goers were female in japan so it could be another reason they are going with pan so that girls can relate to.
I don't know much about Demon Slayer actually. I know that Saint Seiya designs were surprisingly appealing to female audience and that they make a large demographic and that the recent series of DB movies played heavily on nostalgia of older fans, while luring in new fans through the series as it connected to DB Kai, which is just a superficial knowledge.

So unless they state something in interview, we wait for the movie to arrive and we will se and try to deduce, what might they were thinking :)
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:06 am

Talk about a huge marketing disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaeqXWzaizY ,Toei claimed 150 videos within 1 hour from the youtuber Totally not Mark (awesome youtuber by the way) which is approximately 3 years worth of content. Toei was trending on twitter few minutes ago.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:12 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:06 am Talk about a huge marketing disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaeqXWzaizY ,Toei claimed 150 videos within 1 hour from the youtuber Totally not Mark (awesome youtuber by the way) which is approximately 3 years worth of content. Toei was trending on twitter few minutes ago.
How does this correlate to a marketing disaster?
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:17 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:12 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:06 am Talk about a huge marketing disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaeqXWzaizY ,Toei claimed 150 videos within 1 hour from the youtuber Totally not Mark (awesome youtuber by the way) which is approximately 3 years worth of content. Toei was trending on twitter few minutes ago.
How does this correlate to a marketing disaster?
More important question: How does this relate to the upcoming film? There is already a thread about Mark's copyright conundrum in the General board...
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:21 am

PurestEvil wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:17 am
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:12 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:06 am Talk about a huge marketing disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaeqXWzaizY ,Toei claimed 150 videos within 1 hour from the youtuber Totally not Mark (awesome youtuber by the way) which is approximately 3 years worth of content. Toei was trending on twitter few minutes ago.
How does this correlate to a marketing disaster?
More important question: How does this relate to the upcoming film? There is already a thread about Mark's copyright conundrum in the General board...
Precisely, and this thread has been derailed once already into needless panicking.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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