Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Retan » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:02 pm

My biggest gripe with broly cgi that I remember was that they made his hair way to big.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by BWri » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:54 am

Jinto wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:01 pm
BWri wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:09 pm
Jinto wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:45 pm In the first three movie, we had some CGI with mostly hand drawn animation, now we have mostly CGI with some hand drawn animation.
If this movie doesn't flop, do you think they will keep CGI as a main animation method for DB ?
I get the feeling that the CG for DBS: Superhero is mostly a product of timing. I can see them going with more of a hybrid style going forward, with the reliance still being on the 2D animation.

As much as I'm looking forward to its release, I can't see this movie outperforming DBS: Broly. But if it does well, I can see them deciding to make more laid back and cutesy DBS movies in the vein of Battle of Gods and Yo Son Goku going forward.
Isn't CG more expensive ? I doubt timing would let them sink more money into such a light hearted project.
It's cheaper as far as I know. I believe it is typically used as a cost cutting measure.

As far as the timing goes, you can think of it as sort of a non-committal engagement. It's more DB content without as much drain on the studio's resources (manpower/talent and money) so that they can focus on other projects as well. If they do it right, its sort of a win-win scenario for them. That's how I see it anyway. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:59 am

CGI is WAY cheaper than hand drawn animation. You only have to make a CGI model once, then you can position it and modify it as you like. With traditional animation, while there are some shortcuts, you pretty much have to draw every scene, every bit of movement. It's more work, and therefore costs more to hire people to do.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jinto » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:04 am

That's a bit sad to hear, i hope they can pull off epic 3d like Cyberconnect 2 does

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:55 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:59 am CGI is WAY cheaper than hand drawn animation. You only have to make a CGI model once, then you can position it and modify it as you like. With traditional animation, while there are some shortcuts, you pretty much have to draw every scene, every bit of movement. It's more work, and therefore costs more to hire people to do.
CGI films usually cost more in Hollywood and two of the most expensive anime films were fully CGI. Stand by Me Doraemon and Captain Harlock cost more individually than the three modern DB movies combined. I think it's still early to say if Super Hero will cost less than Broly.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:46 am

I guess in theory CGI would be cheaper than hand-drawing...but would making "good" CGI be all that cheaper?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:49 am

CG is more expensive but CG has artistic and commercial value that hand drawn animation doesn't so producers are pushing CG to further the switch away from hand drawn animation, which requires more time due to the time it takes animate complex animation and the small number of available skilled animators. The goal with CG is to push increasingly towards automation so as to pay as little labor costs as possible while absorbing all of the profits in the hands of as few people as possible.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:21 pm

A big part of the increase in CGI is that, as technology and techniques improve, the ability to make great CGI without needing as much raw manpower and processing power also improves.

If DBS: Super Hero's CGI can be made more automated while maintaining a high degree of fidelity, it'll become more commonplace in the future.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:20 pm

Here's some new character artwork...
Pan looks adorable. It's nice to finally see Broly in some official promo.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:25 pm

What? I said Gohan's hair looked a bit weird in the trailer, but it's supposed to be like that? Guess I'll get used to it eventually, but eh... Can't tell if it's better or worse than his Movie 15 hair for now.

At least the shape of it will be obvious enough for us to be able to tell the difference between his base form and Ultimate (I still would like to see Super Saiyan 2).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:47 pm

Neat, distinct differences between Gohan in his base and Ultimate states besides a bang!

Interesting that there's this difference but not Super Saiyan, and yet the other Saiyans don't have their transformations listed.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Marz » Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:34 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:09 am So...do they prefer the "Goku and Vegeta Show" or something?
I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that people's problem is necessarily Gohan and Piccolo in the lead roles in this movie, and that anyone who disagrees just wants the "Goku and Vegeta show" again.

Perhaps the problem is precisely the fact that nowadays, Gohan/Piccolo are barely used for prominent roles. It seems like the big stuff is only reserved for Goku and Vegeta, so whenever the two aren't involved, the story feels like filler. And this is kinda confirmed with this movie because they are being used precisely in a smaller scale story, with a focus on slice of life stuff and with Goku and Vegeta out of the picture. Perhaps this perception could be changed if the people involved in the series actually cared about recurrently inserting the two into the big stories and conflicts again rather than sidelining the two for several arcs and occasionally giving them some prominence.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by capsulecorp » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:42 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:20 pm Here's some new character artwork...
Krillin is on the force again?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by BWri » Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:44 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:47 pm Neat, distinct differences between Gohan in his base and Ultimate states besides a bang!
Yes! I'm digging that change. I hope its not seen as a pander to fans of Gohan from the Cell games, because it's a similar messy style, but I grew tired of the now generic spiked up-do that Gohan's been rocking for most of Super.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jinto » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:18 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:20 pm Here's some new character artwork...
Pan looks adorable. It's nice to finally see Broly in some official promo.
I guess those are the 3D model that will be used
Looks a bit weird without the shadow

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by fleahop » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:33 pm

Gohan's regular hair (if it always looks like that) is a bit strange. It looks maybe a little too complex? Maybe it points up too much for base? I'm not sure.

His Ultra hair is amazing. Like wowie zowie I love it.

The rest is pretty standard besides oh my god Broly is built like a Mr. Olympia contestant. That V.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am

It’s weird seeing Vegeta back in his Boo saga outfit at this point. I’m not complaining, but modern Dragon Ball up to this point has been deadset on keeping him in his armor.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by BWri » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:47 am

WittyUsername wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:17 am It’s weird seeing Vegeta back in his Boo saga outfit at this point. I’m not complaining, but modern Dragon Ball up to this point has been deadset on keeping him in his armor.
For me, the Buu saga look is peak Vegeta. I know its because he can't wear armor in at the TB, but it also represents his growth and acceptance as a resident of Earth.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:37 am

I wish another studio like Ufotable could buy/get the animation rights for Dragonball wholesale we’d get consistent 2-d animation and possibly better writing. Or better yet overhaul the entire Dragon Room or team working on Super & get some fresh blood that actually want to do something different,new & exciting with the franchise.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by emperior » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:49 am

All this emphasis on Gohan’s change in look from base to ultimate is new. While in Super’s anime they added the bang to differentiate the two, the eyes change and hair spiking up are both new for the form. Now it will be obvious to everyone that Ultimate is indeed treated like a transformation, it’s basically Super Saiyan Black at this point. And this is a Toriyama’s movie, so maybe it was his idea to emphasise the form like this.

Which makes me wonder… Broly is similar to Gohan - for the high potential unlocked through rage. Gohan was able to achieve that untapped power through Ultimate, so what if Broly’s evolution in this movie mirrors Gohan’s?

It would be cool if the story focused on the similarities between Gohan and Broly, with mirror scenes to tie them to a similar narrative for their respective progresses. For example, they could show Gohan use his Ultimate form while Broly tries to achieve it on Beerus’ Planet. Moreover, Gohan’s potential is still being hyped up as being higher than Goku’s, so a new transformation could be expected for him. What better form than Broly’s Rage form which brings about the inner Oozaru? That would be a 10x boost on top of ultimate, and the golden eyes would look quite cool.
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