Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:32 pm

"Cartoon with six months of episodes finished before broadcast began" and "literally has most of the studio's best contacts working on it consistently" and "special episodes have four-times the normal number of drawings" do not "standard practice for all weekly cartoons made by artists living on starvation wages producing high-quality art on the quick" make.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:08 am

We keep different reasons for why they're using CGI and it all ends up being pure speculation. First it was not enough 2D staff then we find out about the One Piece filmso then it's that they do have enough 2D staff but didn't care to use it for DB. I still believe Toriyama would have to approve of this style before they could use it. They waited four years to make another movie so I think they would've waited a little longer if Toriyama refused.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:44 am

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:34 pm
capsulecorp wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:05 pm No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)
Eh all the Toei anime including DBS was bad when it was 2015-2016 rushjob Toei the stuff they are putting out now is essentially movie quality every episode. Which is why people want super back. Now unless you talking about story then that’s your opinion.

Animeajay and YonkouProd (people who I wouldn’t quite call armchair strategists) have been highly credible with insider info at Toei many times before had said Super was coming back. I’m not sure what happened tho.
Actually I remember those leaks too and I remember that even one mod here in this forum had reliable info/didn't dismiss the leaks.

But I know what happened in-between those days and today, it starts with C, ends with D :think:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:27 am

capsulecorp wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:05 pm No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)
Actually, I would love something like Dragon Ball Super Kai, or something like Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood :lol:
It's true and I am like broken record about this, but Super is almost non-watchable until the Tournament Of Power arc, visual vise.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by jd55513 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pm

Thoughts?
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19

Baggie always leaks the Dokkan anniversary Collab figures, and many other figures for other games and such. Based off the Information about the new Goku and Vegeta figures(base form) which around this time, we got the blue figures and Broly stuff, it seems that Goku and Vegeta are being kept in base for their on screen run time

I left a message for him, asking for some kind of evidence, still waiting, but he tends to definitely be right about Dokkan stuff.
I'm just curious as to the evidence, Baggie could be right, there's a argument, they want to keep manga stuff, exclusive, HOWEVER stuff from the manga has crossed over before(SSG Vegeta) RoF leaked the blue forms, before the release and Blue Gogeta was a secret too.
I think UE Vegeta could make his debut! Same for UI Goku for the movie!



https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
Last edited by jd55513 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm

jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pmI think UE Vegeta could make his debut! Same for UI Goku for the movie!
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
Bigger chances are for Goku and Vegeta to be minor characters in this movie while the focus is on Pan and Piccolo.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by jd55513 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 pm

Xeogran wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm
jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pmI think UE Vegeta could make his debut! Same for UI Goku for the movie!
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
Bigger chances are for Goku and Vegeta to be minor characters in this movie while the focus is on Pan and Piccolo.
They can still show off the fruits of their training against Broly. Heck, even Broly can get a new form in the film.

It would be a marketing error, not to give Goku and Vegeta their strongest forms(even if for a moment)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:58 pm

jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 pm They can still show off the fruits of their training against Broly. Heck, even Broly can get a new form in the film.

It would be a marketing error, not to give Goku and Vegeta their strongest forms(even if for a moment)
Yeah, that's a good point. I hope the Broly sparring match will be at least 5 minutes long, would be great if they went all out for a while too.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:47 pm

Xeogran wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm
jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pmI think UE Vegeta could make his debut! Same for UI Goku for the movie!
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
Bigger chances are for Goku and Vegeta to be minor characters in this movie while the focus is on Pan and Piccolo.

If this is true that doesn’t bode well for the movie. The biggest and main draws of Dragonball movies is who is Goku fighting, how strong is he, & how the fights turn out without those ingredients….

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:53 pm

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:47 pm If this is true that doesn’t bode well for the movie. The biggest and main draws of Dragonball movies is who is Goku fighting, how strong is he, & how the fights turn out without those ingredients….
Not sure this is a draw so much as a commonality amongst them. I mean...it is a draw since Goku is the main character of the franchise, but I don't think it's a must for most Dragon Ball fans with Super Hero when he's already the lead for most of the films.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by capsulecorp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:27 am

I swear, it's absolutely confounding to me that people here are actively advocating for Toei and Toriyama to make the safest, most conservative choices with their work. We should be excited for and celebrate risk taking. If this was 199x, would you want to be the guy saying "No, this time skip is a HORRIBLE idea, don't age up Goku, you'll alienate the lucrative 8-12 year old market"?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Chuquita » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am

I'm fascinated by how risk-taking this movie atm seems. Cynically I'm thinking they're giving Nozawa fewer lines because she's getting older and they don't want her to overwork her lungs + Toriyama without editorial control means he can go write a lighter and more comedic script and nobody can tell him no.

I'm personally not upset about the path this film is taking as it's just so bizarre from the cgi to the plot, but I'd be lying if I said I was excited to watch it. I like Piccolo and EoZ Pan, but I'm more than done with Red Ribbon.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:27 am

jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pm Thoughts?
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
That's interesting. If it's going to be a more slice of life story then Goku and Vegeta might not need to transform or at least not to their strongest forms. I think it's fitting as we get closer to EoZ. It's no longer a decade of peace but it would at least keep the idea that it's been a few years since their last major threat.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:44 am

jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 pm
Xeogran wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm
jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pmI think UE Vegeta could make his debut! Same for UI Goku for the movie!
https://twitter.com/Baggie_Saiyan/statu ... NNcZw&s=19
Bigger chances are for Goku and Vegeta to be minor characters in this movie while the focus is on Pan and Piccolo.
They can still show off the fruits of their training against Broly. Heck, even Broly can get a new form in the film.

It would be a marketing error, not to give Goku and Vegeta their strongest forms(even if for a moment)
Most people don't know what Vegeta's form is and when the ToP ended Goku couldn't activate Ultra Instinct at will.

Also, since Broly cannot activate his stronger form, which requires him to lose control completely due to great trauma (he goes into this state after seeing Paragus dead), it would be overkill for Goku and Vegeta to spar with him in those new forms.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:33 am

At this point whatever the movie has to offer it will be better than toyotaro's nonsensical ridiculous writting of the latest chapter GAS becoming strongest.As i said current DB has no direction only rehash after rehash after rehash. Toei treating Dragon Ball as a cash cow at this point ,they know bringing back Dragon Ball movie and a game( The breakers) will earn them billions of dollar by selling the merchandise and putting the new character's in dokkan. I hope Toriyama bring something fresh to the table with this upcoming movie.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am

capsulecorp wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:27 am I swear, it's absolutely confounding to me that people here are actively advocating for Toei and Toriyama to make the safest, most conservative choices with their work. We should be excited for and celebrate risk taking. If this was 199x, would you want to be the guy saying "No, this time skip is a HORRIBLE idea, don't age up Goku, you'll alienate the lucrative 8-12 year old market"?
Applauding the risk taking can only go so far the thing has to actually be good. Super has severely lost its momentum after the TOP and Broly which it needs to regain back. This is not the type of movie to do that especially after 4 years away.
Chuquita wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am Toriyama without editorial control means he can go write a lighter and more comedic script and nobody can tell him no.

I'm personally not upset about the path this film is taking as it's just so bizarre from the cgi to the plot, but I'd be lying if I said I was excited to watch it. I like Piccolo and EoZ Pan, but I'm more than done with Red Ribbon.
That’s the part more scarier than the CGI. When you let Toriyama tell a story without editoral control you either get something pretty good like Jaco or (more often than not) straight dogshit like Minus and Res F. You can’t expect to coast on name alone especially on the big stage as a globally distributed movie.

Let me ask you this if the CGI wasn’t involved & it was 2-d with same exact plot would you be more excited to watch the movie vs what it currently seems to be now?
Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:33 am At this point whatever the movie has to offer it will be better than toyotaro's nonsensical ridiculous writting of the latest chapter GAS becoming strongest.As i said current DB has no direction only rehash after rehash after rehash. Toei treating Dragon Ball as a cash cow at this point ,they know bringing back Dragon Ball movie and a game( The breakers) will earn them billions of dollar by selling the merchandise and putting the new character's in dokkan. I hope Toriyama bring something fresh to the table with this upcoming movie.
You scold Toei and Toyotaro for rehashing and hope Toriyama is bringing something fresh when he’s literally bringing back the red ribbon army and androids.I doubt it’ll be any better than the current arc which is the same one Toriyama wrote the script for mostly.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:49 am

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am That’s the part more scarier than the CGI. When you let Toriyama tell a story without editoral control you either get something pretty good like Jaco or (more often than not) straight dogshit like Minus and Res F. You can’t expect to coast on name alone especially on the big stage as a globally distributed movie.
Or something horrible like 19 and 20 as the main villains of the Androids arc.

Wasn't it the editors who told Toriyama to replace these two with 16, 17, 18, and then Cell?

If Toriyama hadn't listened to his editors, the Androids arc would have been so much worse. Without 17 and 18. Without Cell. Just a geezer and a fat clown as the main villains. Ew.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:09 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:44 am
jd55513 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 pm
Xeogran wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 pm

Bigger chances are for Goku and Vegeta to be minor characters in this movie while the focus is on Pan and Piccolo.
They can still show off the fruits of their training against Broly. Heck, even Broly can get a new form in the film.

It would be a marketing error, not to give Goku and Vegeta their strongest forms(even if for a moment)
Most people don't know what Vegeta's form is and when the ToP ended Goku couldn't activate Ultra Instinct at will.

Also, since Broly cannot activate his stronger form, which requires him to lose control completely due to great trauma (he goes into this state after seeing Paragus dead), it would be overkill for Goku and Vegeta to spar with him in those new forms.
This isn't really an excuse. In-universe, it's been a while since the ToP happened and we know Goku always wants to surpass himself, so seeing Goku turning silver at will wouldn't be a problem but natural progression, and Ultra Ego could be worldwide introduced in the movie. It's only a new form, like SSB was in RoF.

I agree, though, that sparring with Broly should not require OP forms, and he shouldn't have any reasons to go crazy in such an environment for them to go silver or hakai to put him down. That is, assuming Broly is still not able to control his power.
However, who's to say Geets and Dumbass won't be sparring with each other, too? DBS ended like that, Broly started like that. Now that they've "mastered" angel and hakaishin techniques, putting each other to the test sounds plausible.

It depends on what Akira wants to do and tell, but there are no limitations in-universe for the new forms.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:12 am

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am
capsulecorp wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:27 am I swear, it's absolutely confounding to me that people here are actively advocating for Toei and Toriyama to make the safest, most conservative choices with their work. We should be excited for and celebrate risk taking. If this was 199x, would you want to be the guy saying "No, this time skip is a HORRIBLE idea, don't age up Goku, you'll alienate the lucrative 8-12 year old market"?
Applauding the risk taking can only go so far the thing has to actually be good. Super has severely lost its momentum after the TOP and Broly which it needs to regain back. This is not the type of movie to do that especially after 4 years away.
Chuquita wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am Toriyama without editorial control means he can go write a lighter and more comedic script and nobody can tell him no.

I'm personally not upset about the path this film is taking as it's just so bizarre from the cgi to the plot, but I'd be lying if I said I was excited to watch it. I like Piccolo and EoZ Pan, but I'm more than done with Red Ribbon.
That’s the part more scarier than the CGI. When you let Toriyama tell a story without editoral control you either get something pretty good like Jaco or (more often than not) straight dogshit like Minus and Res F. You can’t expect to coast on name alone especially on the big stage as a globally distributed movie.

Let me ask you this if the CGI wasn’t involved & it was 2-d with same exact plot would you be more excited to watch the movie vs what it currently seems to be now?
Mr_CINDER wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:33 am At this point whatever the movie has to offer it will be better than toyotaro's nonsensical ridiculous writting of the latest chapter GAS becoming strongest.As i said current DB has no direction only rehash after rehash after rehash. Toei treating Dragon Ball as a cash cow at this point ,they know bringing back Dragon Ball movie and a game( The breakers) will earn them billions of dollar by selling the merchandise and putting the new character's in dokkan. I hope Toriyama bring something fresh to the table with this upcoming movie.
You scold Toei and Toyotaro for rehashing and hope Toriyama is bringing something fresh when he’s literally bringing back the red ribbon army and androids.I doubt it’ll be any better than the current arc which is the same one Toriyama wrote the script for mostly.
Toyotaro fully in controll for the recent arc, from what I've heard Toriyama only gave minor plot details.I dont know why i have a feeling This is the last Dragon Ball movie and after this even IF Dragon Ball continues Toriyama will pass the torch to toyotaro completely.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:17 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:09 am This isn't really an excuse. In-universe, it's been a while since the ToP happened and we know Goku always wants to surpass himself, so seeing Goku turning silver at will wouldn't be a problem but natural progression, and Ultra Ego could be worldwide introduced in the movie. It's only a new form, like SSB was in RoF.
Then it will have to be explained.

They will have to show a flashback of a generic training where Goku figures out how to activate UI at will, and Vegeta figuring out this new form. Maybe he first uses it while training with Beerus.

Events of the manga will thus have to be retconned, Vegeta will use his form for the first time not during the fight with Granolah, but during a training session.

What is not the right way to do it, is animating the Granolah vs. Vegeta fight, the fight where Vegeta first uses the form in the manga. Because then most people will wonder who Granolah is.

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