Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:08 pm

jjbgood wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:29 pm
BeaBumby wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:23 am so like

why does Beast Gohan's transformation mimic SSJ2's if it doesn't really work here?

like that one was supposed to represent Gohan losing his innocence, right? well he can't lose it TWICE so what's the point here?
The moment Gohan lost his innoscence was when his father was killed and he was taken as a toddler by a green demon guy, who left him in the woods alone and fight for his life, so he can kill the guys who will come to kill him and everyone else. not 5 years later, when he cried in a battle.
And he didn't even cry in the manga at that lol

Partly amusing that he already has much better impulse control and calmness in his "Beast" form wherein "the wild beast within has awakened" than he did in his first SS2 transformation :lol:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by BWri » Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:32 am

I was thinking Cyborg 009, Ultraman, and a few other Japanese heroes were the inspiration for Gamma 1 and 2 but wow, I wonder if they were designed after this 1991 Disney classic instead or if he factored into the design at all.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:29 pm

BWri wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:32 am I was thinking Cyborg 009, Ultraman, and a few other Japanese heroes were the inspiration for Gamma 1 and 2 but wow, I wonder if they were designed after this 1991 Disney classic instead or if he factored into the design at all.

Image

It's the Rocketeer for those of you who don't know.
...but way more probably by the comic in 1983. That was itself inspired by 1940 onward "rocketmen heroes" that were Ishinomori Cyborg 009 and many Sentai heroes inspiration.
Such Japanese Superheroes were also inspired by Taisho romantic heroes, giving them a different feel and look.
Quite interesting.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by dragonballhero » Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:54 pm

I have to ask, does anyone else feel like Gohan was kind of forced into action for this movie (and not in a good way)?

I haven't seen Super Hero yet, but from what I've heard and/or seen, I think I'd be more into this movie if Toriyama was allowed to make a Piccolo-focused story like he wanted to (with assistance from Pan).

It just feels like he was more of an afterthought in the grand scheme of things here. I mean, do we really need him at the forefront THAT badly?

This is why I hope Goten and Trunks get a movie soon. I feel like you could do a fair bit more with them (especially Goten).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Kagari » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:25 pm

dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:54 pm I have to ask, does anyone else feel like Gohan was kind of forced into action for this movie (and not in a good way)?

I haven't seen Super Hero yet, but from what I've heard and/or seen, I think I'd be more into this movie if Toriyama was allowed to make a Piccolo-focused story like he wanted to (with assistance from Pan).

It just feels like he was more of an afterthought in the grand scheme of things here. I mean, do we really need him at the forefront THAT badly?

This is why I hope Goten and Trunks get a movie soon. I feel like you could do a fair bit more with them (especially Goten).
No because the plot centers largely on Gohan getting into the fight between the Red Ribbon Army after him as the supposed "secret boss" kept by Capsule Corp who have been painted as the villains, and characters like Piccolo hyping him up and pushing that he can be the strongest along with Pan wanting to see her dad fight. It's seeded from the very first Piccolo scene.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by dragonballhero » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm

I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Kagari » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:57 pm

dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.
Well you said yourself you haven't seen it yet so perhaps wait until you do.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:01 pm

dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.
After learning about how this film was originally envisioned by Toriyama as focused on Piccolo, I figured this is very much the case.

The film carries a lot of that original framing, as it's Piccolo who moves the story forward through his actions and perspective, has clear development and realizations that change his character and others, and is the actual central focus when the story isn't trying to bring in Gohan.

If anything, it seems like Toriyama may well have simply edited his original Piccolo-based story draft to include Gohan rather than reworking it to be focused on Gohan.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Kagari » Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:16 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:01 pm
dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.
After learning about how this film was originally envisioned by Toriyama as focused on Piccolo, I figured this is very much the case.

The film carries a lot of that original framing, as it's Piccolo who moves the story forward through his actions and perspective, has clear development and realizations that change his character and others, and is the actual central focus when the story isn't trying to bring in Gohan.

If anything, it seems like Toriyama may well have simply edited his original Piccolo-based story draft to include Gohan rather than reworking it to be focused on Gohan.
That's not what happened though. The decision to have Gohan as a MC happened in early planning while they were still hashing out ideas over the two year period they took to write the script. Too much of the plot relies on Gohan being there and isn't "edited in" at all -including Piccolo who does a lot in service of Gohan. The story would be completely different if it were "just Piccolo" as people like to imagine.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by BWri » Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:40 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:29 pm ...but way more probably by the comic in 1983. That was itself inspired by 1940 onward "rocketmen heroes" that were Ishinomori Cyborg 009 and many Sentai heroes inspiration.
Such Japanese Superheroes were also inspired by Taisho romantic heroes, giving them a different feel and look.
Quite interesting.
Wow! I didn't know this history. It is quite interesting. Looking at the 1982 cover, I can definitely see even more influence with the fin, pants, gun, and boots.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Lukmendes » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:10 am

Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 am In Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Hah, good one.
Shorty GZ2 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:08 pm And he didn't even cry in the manga at that lol

Partly amusing that he already has much better impulse control and calmness in his "Beast" form wherein "the wild beast within has awakened" than he did in his first SS2 transformation :lol:
Clearly he's a tamed Beast :lol:
dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.
A lot of the first parts of the movie shows how much Piccolo was meant to be the protagonist considering most of the point of view is his', he moves the plot along and he gets the most interactions.

But I think the only awkward thing about Gohan here is his lack of development, his role is fine considering that Piccolo's relationship with Pan is used to have that fake kidnapping situation, and despite how much power Piccolo got, he uses the fake kidnapping to motivate Gohan too, and without Gohan in the picture, the fake kidnapping wouldn't happen at all, so the plot is also supposed to be about Gohan, but as a character he doesn't do much, he just gets angry when Pan is kidnapped, fails at getting a senzu because he sucks, and gets angry again when Piccolo is beaten up, he doesn't even get to interact with Pan until the movie's end.

So yeah, short version is, I wouldn't say he's awkwardly shoved into the movie, I'd say 18, Krillin, Goten and Trunks are awkwardly shoved into the plot since they don't contribute much, Gohan's problem is his lack of development, and that lack of development looks worse 'cause this is the third time Gohan gets the "Stop training, become weak, has to become strong again" plot beats.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Kagari » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:49 am

Lukmendes wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:10 am
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 am In Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Hah, good one.
Shorty GZ2 wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:08 pm And he didn't even cry in the manga at that lol

Partly amusing that he already has much better impulse control and calmness in his "Beast" form wherein "the wild beast within has awakened" than he did in his first SS2 transformation :lol:
Clearly he's a tamed Beast :lol:
dragonballhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:51 pm I mean, the positives definitely outweighed the negatives in terms of Gohan getting involved, but I can't shake the feeling that he felt shoehorned into this.

Believe me, I love Gohan, but something about this movie just feels different to me compared to other Gohan-focused outings.
A lot of the first parts of the movie shows how much Piccolo was meant to be the protagonist considering most of the point of view is his', he moves the plot along and he gets the most interactions.

But I think the only awkward thing about Gohan here is his lack of development, his role is fine considering that Piccolo's relationship with Pan is used to have that fake kidnapping situation, and despite how much power Piccolo got, he uses the fake kidnapping to motivate Gohan too, and without Gohan in the picture, the fake kidnapping wouldn't happen at all, so the plot is also supposed to be about Gohan, but as a character he doesn't do much, he just gets angry when Pan is kidnapped, fails at getting a senzu because he sucks, and gets angry again when Piccolo is beaten up, he doesn't even get to interact with Pan until the movie's end.

So yeah, short version is, I wouldn't say he's awkwardly shoved into the movie, I'd say 18, Krillin, Goten and Trunks are awkwardly shoved into the plot since they don't contribute much, Gohan's problem is his lack of development, and that lack of development looks worse 'cause this is the third time Gohan gets the "Stop training, become weak, has to become strong again" plot beats.
He didn't become weak and it was revealed he was training the Makankosappo in secret at the end of the movie. Gohan being absent minded and focused on work is just a gag and shows Piccolo was really worrying about nothing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:38 pm

How hard can it be to learn the Makankosappo? Beyond an unspecified amount of time after 23rd BT/before Saiyan Arc in which Piccolo developed it, it seems simple-ish for a drilling beam that requires standing in place for like 1 minute

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:52 pm

Shorty GZ2 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:38 pm How hard can it be to learn the Makankosappo? Beyond an unspecified amount of time after 23rd BT/before Saiyan Arc in which Piccolo developed it, it seems simple-ish for a drilling beam that requires standing in place for like 1 minute
I mean to me it seems simple enough; the only issue may be refining it. What if there are different variations of the Makankosappo that all have varying balances of raw ki and refined shape and power input, like how Goten had his version of the Kamehameha called the Kamekameha (he mispronounced it and the beam ran wild + completely missed Trunks)
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Captain Awesome » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:28 am

There's a subbed screening a 20 minute drive from my place.

Can't wait to see it!

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:27 pm

Captain Awesome wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:28 am There's a subbed screening a 20 minute drive from my place.

Can't wait to see it!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by TheMajinRedComet » Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:41 pm

Just a heads up. Tickets are on sale in the USA! It seems to be a full theatrical release on a bunch of screens in dubbed and subbed. Plus it is available in IMAX too.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Miracles » Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:27 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:41 pm Just a heads up. Tickets are on sale in the USA! It seems to be a full theatrical release on a bunch of screens in dubbed and subbed. Plus it is available in IMAX too.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:58 am

Apparently Toriyama's son sauske toriyama took the super hero project https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1550636687478251521

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:02 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:58 am Apparently Toriyama's son sauske toriyama took the super hero project https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1550636687478251521
I wouldn't put any stock in it until we get a recording of the Japanese sentence. Live translations are spotty and I don't even know how to make sense of this when nothing in the lead up to the movie highlighted his son as a key staff member.
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