Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[capsulecorp]

On such a big IP as this though? Wouldnt it better be served doing that type of stuff for Precure or World trigger or any of the other smaller ones. It seems your shooting yourself in the foot by gambling on an animation style you aren’t extremely familiar with.

The people who fund movies like this think of this completely differently. It REDUCES risk to practice and experiment with a project that has a large and thirsty fanbase, because they'll go see it even if the budget isn't massively high or if aspects of it are slightly unfamiliar.

I mean, Dragon Ball survived 11 or 12 utterly, embarrassingly tone deaf and terrible movies back in the 90s, not to mention Evolution. Super Hero is going to be just fine.

[Xeogran]

I mean, Dragon Ball survived 11 or 12 utterly, embarrassingly tone deaf and terrible movies back in the 90s, not to mention Evolution. Super Hero is going to be just fine.

What the hell? Lots of the old movies were fun and liked, there is a reason the fanbase remembers them 30 years later and they still get new merch. What was there to "survive" ?

[Chuquita]

It's definitely frustrating to me to see Toei play favorites with One Piece and seeing DB get stuck with cgi and 3 year long hiatus from having a weekly show, but One Piece is still running weekly in Shonen Jump where DB has a monthly manga in a mostly videogame magazine and isn't even drawn or fully written by its original author anymore; makes sense that One Piece's fandom gets preferential treatment. I'm sure One Piece Film Red will look as amazing as the Brolli movie did and as amazing as I wish Superhero would.

[PurestEvil]

I mean, Dragon Ball survived 11 or 12 utterly, embarrassingly tone deaf and terrible movies back in the 90s, not to mention Evolution. Super Hero is going to be just fine.

Wtf is this logic? Dragon Ball survived through those “terrible” movies because the DBZ anime was still running! Now, the only thing running in Dragon Ball is a slow monthly manga and an obscure promotional anime meant for Japanese audiences only.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Yeah...I'm not sure I buy into the notion that Dragon Ball survived those 90s movies when they were a huge part of the lifeline back then. Plus, most of them are (subjectively, obviously) quite fun, World's Strongest being my favorite of them all, including the modern ones. The movies were essentially extended commercials for the Dragon Ball brand, and I don't mean that as a negative. I think Super Hero will do well enough, but the context is hardly the same, and it's not like Dragon Ball succeeded in spite of those older movies. This is the first time I've ever heard that take.

[SupremeKai25]

It should be noted that, even though one might argue the movies are dogshit, what can't be argued is that they were a massive success financially/popularity-wise. And that's why Broly, Cooler, Janemba are still featured regularly (in Heroes, in videogames likeXenoverse and Figherz, etc.), with Broly even getting Canonized.

So evidently most people liked those movies, thus it is hardly surprising they carried the franchise after the manga ended.

DB has always been a franchise carried by the videogames. I'm sure Xenoverse 2 makes a lot of money, to not require a sequel in 5 years, but still it's disappointing. Especially since Toei was making a new OP movie too, so the idea that they were "under-staffed" goes out of the window completely.

They're not under-staffed, they just don't care because they know DB fans will eat anything new, especially after 4 years.

[MCDaveG]

The 90s movies and movies now are completely different thing.

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were one of the most succesful series running on TV and these companion movies to show on Jump Festa and other occasions were the norm. Even Naruto in 2000s had such movies made. They were all short, self contained stories playing with the plot points from main series and showcasing all the cool stuff that was recent, like Kaioken, SSJ and basically other cool stuff and what-ifs like what if Vegeta and Goku did fusion dance as Goten and Trunks do, that was not concurrent to what was happening in the show.
It was basically a long commercial or showcase, for new fans and the old the same.

Except for the Super series, the movies now starting with BOG are basically full fledged sequels.
Super took a chance of the hype train that Kai and Dragon Ball Z sequel movies started, repurposing them in the new sequel series
and after it ended, Broly came up and everyone assumed that Super will continue as movies and won't return on TV.
At that time, the hype was still strong and in Europe the series is still going in re-runs and I have seen some action figures in Italy with Super brand on it. 4 years passed and the momentum is kind of dead, sure, Covid didn't help and everything got setbacked.
Hence the pressure and excpectations from the Super Hero movie are huge and lot of people expect it to be either epic blast or failure as there is no show or media that really support the franchise outside of a die hard fans. And if you say, manga, well that is a niche product that doesn't really carry the series as well as the animated format on screen does. Might be more popular in Japan among V-Jump readers, but the heyday of DB on the pages of Jump are over 20 years gone.
When I asked few friends, which of course doesn't represent the majority at all, they were surprised that the manga exists but weren't interested in following it. I also doubt that unless they will really try to adapt it into TV show and I wonder how - Dragon Ball Super Last Chapters?
But as it is now, I see the series has ended with Tournament of Power and the manga is basically a bonus companion for die hard fans, but not really a full sequel that might get skipped and the next stories will continue on screen or in movie formats.

Let's see the movie, I really wonder what the story is and how will it feel. If it is a really major continuity movie or just a movie to fill some gap without Dragon Ball that will maybe start another era for a new set of stories, or if it will be just a bonus farewell for some years from now on.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

It's all so bizzarre. I know so many people that followed Super weekly and haven't paid any attention to the franchise since the Broly film. For a series as big as Dragon Ball, you would think that they would capitalise off of that money train and come back with an anime soon after the last film. If I were a money-hungry studio executive (and this is a big IF) and I saw that one of our franchises just made over $100 mil USD in the international box office, I would shift gears into bringing the Super anime back to production.

It just feels like the strangest business decision for them to not have anything significant to release in the past 3 years (almost 4 if you only consider the anime series). So much so that I feel like the only way for them to have not gone back into production for the anime was either they did not have the manpower to do so (which I'm starting to doubt now) or Toriyama intervened in some way. Toriyama did mention at some point that he was critical of the Super anime early on, maybe he wanted the anime to directly adapt Toyotaro's manga for the sake of quality? These past couple of Super manga arcs have been long and very detailed compared to the previous arcs. Maybe he's intentionally making a detailed foundation for the anime staff to work off of once the anime (hopefully) returns.

I'm crossing my fingers that we see a good amount of footage at Jump Festa in December and I hope it looks good. I'm still onboard for whatever story Toriyama wants to tell this time, but these visuals really have to surprise me.

[SupremeKai25]

Pretty sure the early manga arcs speed-rushed through everything because everyone had already seen the anime anyway. For instance, what's the point of dragging out the FT arc with the whole "mysterious aura" surrounding Black when everyone already knows (From the anime) that Black is Zamasu and teamed up with another Zamasu? Whereas the anime spent a lot of time building up the mystery of Black and whatever relationship he had with Zamasu (because at the time no one knew who Black was).

[Skar]

Nothing was done to celebrate the 30th or 20th anniversary of the manga, so I doubt anything will be done for the 40th.

Since two years was the earliest they've had between movie releases, it's possible the next movie comes out during the 40th anniversary in 2024. Super Hero takes place in the same year as EoZ so some people were speculating there could be one more movie to tie into EoZ and it could be fitting for it to happen during a major anniversary.

[JulieYBM]

It should be noted that, even though one might argue the movies are dogshit, what can't be argued is that they were a massive success financially/popularity-wise. And that's why Broly, Cooler, Janemba are still featured regularly (in Heroes, in videogames likeXenoverse and Figherz, etc.), with Broly even getting Canonized.

So evidently most people liked those movies, thus it is hardly surprising they carried the franchise after the manga ended.

DB has always been a franchise carried by the videogames. I'm sure Xenoverse 2 makes a lot of money, to not require a sequel in 5 years, but still it's disappointing. Especially since Toei was making a new OP movie too, so the idea that they were "under-staffed" goes out of the window completely.

They're not under-staffed, they just don't care because they know DB fans will eat anything new, especially after 4 years.

Production assistants are literally hiring high school kids off of Twitter to work on anime.

The industry is gasping for air because of capitalism.

[capsulecorp]

No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)

[ObnoxiousNamek]

It should be noted that, even though one might argue the movies are dogshit, what can't be argued is that they were a massive success financially/popularity-wise. And that's why Broly, Cooler, Janemba are still featured regularly (in Heroes, in videogames likeXenoverse and Figherz, etc.), with Broly even getting Canonized.

So evidently most people liked those movies, thus it is hardly surprising they carried the franchise after the manga ended.

DB has always been a franchise carried by the videogames. I'm sure Xenoverse 2 makes a lot of money, to not require a sequel in 5 years, but still it's disappointing. Especially since Toei was making a new OP movie too, so the idea that they were "under-staffed" goes out of the window completely.

They're not under-staffed, they just don't care because they know DB fans will eat anything new, especially after 4 years.

Production assistants are literally hiring high school kids off of Twitter to work on anime.

The industry is gasping for air because of capitalism.

Idk Film Red being in production since late 2020 is strike 1 for that excuse it’ll be strike 3 especially if the Slam Dunk and Kitaro movie for 2022 also come out 2-d animated. Then you’d know they’d have to had been working on those for a year or more with ample staff.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy but I feel Toei/Shueisha/Toriyama are secretly done with DB I don’t think Super is ever coming back & this movie is the last one to sort of wrap things up.

Plus it’s hard to regain the hype that Super had coming off TOP & Broly which has been now been squandered. I wish another studio could buy the IP rights from them since they are making billions of yen off the IP but aren’t doing anything with it.

[JulieYBM]

It should be noted that, even though one might argue the movies are dogshit, what can't be argued is that they were a massive success financially/popularity-wise. And that's why Broly, Cooler, Janemba are still featured regularly (in Heroes, in videogames likeXenoverse and Figherz, etc.), with Broly even getting Canonized.

So evidently most people liked those movies, thus it is hardly surprising they carried the franchise after the manga ended.

DB has always been a franchise carried by the videogames. I'm sure Xenoverse 2 makes a lot of money, to not require a sequel in 5 years, but still it's disappointing. Especially since Toei was making a new OP movie too, so the idea that they were "under-staffed" goes out of the window completely.

They're not under-staffed, they just don't care because they know DB fans will eat anything new, especially after 4 years.

Production assistants are literally hiring high school kids off of Twitter to work on anime.

The industry is gasping for air because of capitalism.

Idk Film Red being in production since late 2020 is strike 1 for that excuse it’ll be strike 3 especially if the Slam Dunk and Kitaro movie for 2022 also come out 2-d animated. Then you’d know they’d have to had been working on those for a year or more with ample staff.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy but I feel Toei/Shueisha/Toriyama are secretly done with DB I don’t think Super is ever coming back & this movie is the last one to sort of wrap things up.

Plus it’s hard to regain the hype that Super had coming off TOP & Broly which has been now been squandered. I wish another studio could buy the IP rights from them since they are making billions of yen off the IP but aren’t doing anything with it.

Yeah, none of what you're saying makes sense. They don't hate Dragon Ball, they're viewing this film as a calculated move to expand the capabilities in a market that is heavily sought after overseas.

Toei Animation has multiple projects in production on various stages and with various needs. They're trying to avoid placing too much of a workload on their 2D animators, hence why they only allow their episodes to use a small number of drawings despite having the money to pay for more drawings per episode.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)

Eh all the Toei anime including DBS was bad when it was 2015-2016 rushjob Toei the stuff they are putting out now is essentially movie quality every episode. Which is why people want super back. Now unless you talking about story then that’s your opinion.

Animeajay and YonkouProd (people who I wouldn’t quite call armchair strategists) have been highly credible with insider info at Toei many times before had said Super was coming back. I’m not sure what happened tho.

[JulieYBM]

No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)

Eh all the Toei anime including DBS was bad when it was 2015-2016 rushjob Toei the stuff they are putting out now is essentially movie quality every episode. Which is why people want super back. Now unless you talking about story then that’s your opinion.

Animeajay and YonkouProd (people who I wouldn’t quite call armchair strategists) have been highly credible with insider info at Toei many times before had said Super was coming back. I’m not sure what happened tho.

Digimon Adventure: and Digimon: Ghost Game both suffered from poor scheduling and no animators or time to produce the level of quality and consistency seen in Dragon Quest: Dai no Dai-Bouken (2020) and One Piece. PreCure also has its ups-and-downs.

Those productions are winning because they have staff and planning and that staff and planning inevitably leads to other projects having less flexibility when there are less resources immediately available.

I want Dragon Ball to come back. I want more films like Movie #20. I want a TV series like Tiger Mask W or Kyousougiga or the Wano arc of One Piece. That's not happening any time soon and the demands of capitalism have eventually led to "Hey, we want a new Dragon Ball film ASAP so we'll use CG since it means we can hit two birds with one stone!"

[capsulecorp]

No one is saying the 90s movies are equivalent to the new movies, the point is just that, even if by some unexpected event this new film is a total disaster, the idea that it could kill Dragon Ball seems off-base to me.

Anyway, this all reminds me of back when all these armchair strategist youtubers were going on about how the DBS anime was DEFINITELY coming back ANY DAY NOW because OBVIOUSLY it makes MONEY and TOEI is leaving that money on the TABLE. Totally embarrassing and as we now know, totally wrong. Let's not speculate about Toei's finances or their corporate strategy or profit potential or profit motive. I realize to some extent this is just a coping strategy for people who want more content ("I like Dragon Ball, and it could make money, so it'll probably come back any day now... right?"), but it's just so tired and tedious... and honestly, I'm GLAD Toei is resisting the financial potential of a Dragon Ball Super anime because... the DBS anime was bad! Unless they can improve it, I say they should just let it be, and it's starting to seem like they agree.

(oh yeah and I agree World's Strongest is a great time, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic but whew some of those old movies are stinkers)

Eh all the Toei anime including DBS was bad when it was 2015-2016 rushjob Toei the stuff they are putting out now is essentially movie quality every episode. Which is why people want super back. Now unless you talking about story then that’s your opinion.

Animeajay and YonkouProd (people who I wouldn’t quite call armchair strategists) have been highly credible with insider info at Toei many times before had said Super was coming back. I’m not sure what happened tho.

Story is definitely part of it. There's no place for some of the extraordinarily low quality filler episodes from the DBS anime, and even in the non-filler episodes, the plot, characterization and thematic coherence plummeted when they had less manga to draw from (see: most of the Zamasu arc, just about the entire middle of TOP).

I mean, I'd watch the anime if it came back, looked good, and adapted the more recent stories or beyond! But, I can also just as easily do without. A lot of the time I spent watching it just.... feels wasted because it was so disappointing most of the time.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Production assistants are literally hiring high school kids off of Twitter to work on anime.

The industry is gasping for air because of capitalism.

Idk Film Red being in production since late 2020 is strike 1 for that excuse it’ll be strike 3 especially if the Slam Dunk and Kitaro movie for 2022 also come out 2-d animated. Then you’d know they’d have to had been working on those for a year or more with ample staff.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy but I feel Toei/Shueisha/Toriyama are secretly done with DB I don’t think Super is ever coming back & this movie is the last one to sort of wrap things up.

Plus it’s hard to regain the hype that Super had coming off TOP & Broly which has been now been squandered. I wish another studio could buy the IP rights from them since they are making billions of yen off the IP but aren’t doing anything with it.

Yeah, none of what you're saying makes sense. They don't hate Dragon Ball, they're viewing this film as a calculated move to expand the capabilities in a market that is heavily sought after overseas.

Toei Animation has multiple projects in production on various stages and with various needs. They're trying to avoid placing too much of a workload on their 2D animators, hence why they only allow their episodes to use a small number of drawings despite having the money to pay for more drawings per episode.

I don’t think the average anime fan is requesting for more CGI in their anime if anything they are literally begging for studios to do the complete opposite & NOT use cgi. Now unless your talking about from a business perspective even then Toei is far behind at this stage.People are used to Pixar level CGI. Not something that looks like the beta version of Kakkarot on low settings.

Umm idk about them using a small number of drawings episode 110 of Super had roughly 4000 cuts https://renaiotaku.com/how-important-is ... n-quality/

while episode 870 of One Piece had 13,000 and even now the number of cuts in Wano has gone up dramatically and the animation quality proves it.

[JulieYBM]

Idk Film Red being in production since late 2020 is strike 1 for that excuse it’ll be strike 3 especially if the Slam Dunk and Kitaro movie for 2022 also come out 2-d animated. Then you’d know they’d have to had been working on those for a year or more with ample staff.

I know it sounds like a conspiracy but I feel Toei/Shueisha/Toriyama are secretly done with DB I don’t think Super is ever coming back & this movie is the last one to sort of wrap things up.

Plus it’s hard to regain the hype that Super had coming off TOP & Broly which has been now been squandered. I wish another studio could buy the IP rights from them since they are making billions of yen off the IP but aren’t doing anything with it.

Yeah, none of what you're saying makes sense. They don't hate Dragon Ball, they're viewing this film as a calculated move to expand the capabilities in a market that is heavily sought after overseas.

Toei Animation has multiple projects in production on various stages and with various needs. They're trying to avoid placing too much of a workload on their 2D animators, hence why they only allow their episodes to use a small number of drawings despite having the money to pay for more drawings per episode.

I don’t think the average anime fan is requesting for more CGI in their anime if anything they are literally begging for studios to do the complete opposite & NOT use cgi. Now unless your talking about from a business perspective even then Toei is far behind at this stage.People are used to Pixar level CGI. Not something that looks like the beta version of Kakkarot on low settings.

Umm idk about them using a small number of drawings episode 110 of Super had roughly 4000 cuts while episode 870 of One Piece had 13,000 and even now the number of cuts in Wano has gone up dramatically and the animation quality proves it.

One Piece #870 having so many drawings is an outlier.

Super Hero is literally months from even being finished.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Yeah, none of what you're saying makes sense. They don't hate Dragon Ball, they're viewing this film as a calculated move to expand the capabilities in a market that is heavily sought after overseas.

Toei Animation has multiple projects in production on various stages and with various needs. They're trying to avoid placing too much of a workload on their 2D animators, hence why they only allow their episodes to use a small number of drawings despite having the money to pay for more drawings per episode.

I don’t think the average anime fan is requesting for more CGI in their anime if anything they are literally begging for studios to do the complete opposite & NOT use cgi. Now unless your talking about from a business perspective even then Toei is far behind at this stage.People are used to Pixar level CGI. Not something that looks like the beta version of Kakkarot on low settings.

Umm idk about them using a small number of drawings episode 110 of Super had roughly 4000 cuts while episode 870 of One Piece had 13,000 and even now the number of cuts in Wano has gone up dramatically and the animation quality proves it.

One Piece #870 having so many drawings is an outlier.

Super Hero is literally months from even being finished.

Eh doesn’t seem to be an outlier now it’s pretty much the standard now. Dai included


I’ve been burned too many time by the “trailer is not representative of final product” and the final product looks exactly like the trailer.

I want this movie to do good and look good but from what we’ve seen so far the best foot has not been put forward in trying to ease concerns. I wish Toei was more comfortable in working with other smaller & reputable overseas CGI studios( if that’s who they are trying to cater to) like Squeeze Animation Studios which did the bulk of the CGI work on Marvels What If series which looked very fluid in motion. Or even calling arcsys for help on the models. Those FighterZ models should be the standard for anything 3D or CGI Dragonball from here on out.