Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:59 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:31 am
MCDaveG wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:36 am This is me making assumptions, but Dragon Ball Super is not as succesful anymore is it? The series has ended and now we are getting a standalone movie.
Dragon Ball Z brand is probably still the most recognizable and from the live media, only the manga is basically DB Super as a sequel.
But toys, besides the European focused Breakers series cashing on the Super anime being aired here, are not under Super brand.
Nor any game, Kakarot is Z, FighterZ has a pun on Z, Xenoverse, Heroes (using the super before as a step-up), Legends, Dokkan...

As many said before, the games alone and merch are now holding the series with fans.

I am actually quite happy, the series is done for now. Super was the sequel to Z I would have loved as a kid and my only gripe with it is the crap production quality in the first half of the series and the abrupt end. I really wonder, how come that except for GT ending, TOEI is not really good at doing longer and better farewells to their series.
Looking forward to this movie as a bonus and wonder what, if ever, will it imply on the series overall.
I mean, sure, Xenoverse is technically not a Super-exclusive/Super-based game, but almost all the DLCs for Xenoverse 2 had Super characters:

DLC 1: Cabba, Frost
DLC 2: Champa, Vados
DLC 3: Rosé Goku Black, [Immortal] Zamasu
DLC 4: Fused Zamasu, Blue Vegito
DLC 6: Jiren, Android 17 (Super); UI Goku
DLC 7: Kefla
DLC 8: SSB Gogeta, Broly (Super)
DLC 9: SSG Vegeta, SSBE Vegeta, Ribrianne

And so on...

In fact, the latest DLC added 4 new DBS-exclusive characters, which are Shirtless Jiren, DBS Gogeta, Caulifla, and Kale.

Now obviously I am not saying that ONLY Super characters were released, I didn't mention the exceptions (like Tapion, Baby, Super Buu, Bojack, etc.); but the VAST MAJORITY are clearly DBS characters.

So evidently, Yes, they're still making tons of money from Super, or the latest DLC for Xenoverse 2 wouldn't be releasing only Super characters. Or Super characters at all.

But notice something? Where is Moro? Where is Merus? Where is Granolah?

And therein lies the problem with this comic, it clearly doesn't even come close to the amount of hype and traffic around the franchise that the Anime generated.

The manga cannot even feature in the Top 25 best selling manga of 2021, despite having the Dragon Ball brand attached to it, that's very sad and honestly pathetic. Why they haven't brought the Anime back yet is, truthfully, genuinely, beyond my comprehension.

It's actually very sad. When Xenoverse 2 was released in Autumn 2016, while the Future Trunks arc was still airing, Goku Black (as Base form) was already playable as Pre-order bonus.

Here the Moro arc ended 1 year ago and none of its characters are still in the videogame, I'll let you draw the conclusions.
DB super volume 16 came in top 10 i think,however In my humble opinion they dont consider toyotaro as heir or replacement for toriyama, which is fine because toyotaro as i said is garbage and not fit to continue DB's legacy and cant even write a decent arc to save his life.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:41 am

Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:59 am DB super volume 16 came in top 10 i think,however In my humble opinion they dont consider toyotaro as heir or replacement for toriyama, which is fine because toyotaro as i said is garbage and not fit to continue DB's legacy and cant even write a decent arc to save his life.
I base this off of the final list Oricon published a few days ago. DBS doesn't appear anywhere on the list of the Top 30 best selling manga volume from November 2020 to November 2021, despite the climax of the Moro arc and beginning of the new arc being between this time frame. This is honestly pathetic for a product with the Dragon Ball name attached to it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... on/.180076

The Top 10 best-selling manga of 2021 is this:
Jujutsu Kaisen: 30.9 million copies sold
Demon Slayer: 29.5 million copies sold
Tokyo Revengers: 24.9 million copies sold
Attack on Titan: 7.3 million copies sold
My Hero Academia: 7 million copies sold
One Piece: 7 million copies sold
Chainsaw Man: 5.2 million copies sold
Spy x Family: 4.9 million copies sold
Kingdom: 4.6 million copies sold
Haikyuu: 4.3 million copies sold
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/11/29/t ... -revealed/

That even a volleyball anime (Haikyuu) is outselling DBS is honestly sad, it's Dragon Ball, how could it fall so low :think:

Like Broly, this new movie will have to carry a lot.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:16 am

Dunno how we got to the topic of Toyotaro's manga and profitability, but video games, general merchandise, etc. have never used exclusive characters or concepts from any Dragon Ball manga. Ever. Not even the original manga. Everything was specifically licensed and branded from the anime.

The most the Super manga specifically got in the way of merchandising was a miniature figure line recreating various panels from the Future Trunks and Universe Survival arcs, but those all shared characters/forms with the anime.

This applies equally to Shueisha's other properties, including massively successful ones like One Piece. I suspect it's only tangentially related to direct sales numbers. It's definitely not exclusively a DB thing.

Whether we start to see characters like Moro or Granolah will depend entirely on whether Toei does an adaptation of their story arcs, most likely. The ball's in their court more than it is Bandai's.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:39 am

Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:16 ambut video games, general merchandise, etc. have never used exclusive characters or concepts from any Dragon Ball manga. Ever. Not even the original manga.
Umm, Kuriza appeared in Budokai 2 and Neko Majin Z in a DS DBZ game. They're both in DB Heroes too.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:49 am

Xeogran wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:39 am Umm, Kuriza appeared in Budokai 2 and Neko Majin Z in a DS DBZ game. They're both in DB Heroes too.
Those are characters from Neko Majin. But if you want to define that as a DB manga, I guess I can amend the statement from "never" to "almost never".

There's a reason all of this stuff was used under the 'Dragon Ball Z' moniker, a Toei-employed brand. They're associated more with the adaptation than the comic.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Grimlock » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:56 am

Xeogran wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:39 am
Umm, Kuriza appeared in Budokai 2 and Neko Majin Z in a DS DBZ game. They're both in DB Heroes too.
As well as Gine, Jaco and Goku (Dragon Ball Minus). These are most likely all the characters that had had no anime appearance but appeared in games even so.

Those are the exceptions. It's still more common that a character will start getting merchandising and appearing in games after their debut appearance in the anime. Unless, by luck (if they go like "you know what? Forget it, even though these characters don't appear in the anime, we'll feature them!), they appear somewhere else by chance or by special occasion.

Another thing to notice is that all of those characters appeared in a Dimps game. Because Dimps has become a huge and important pillar of Dragon Ball by now. If it weren't for them, those characters would still be where they've always been (that and we wouldn't have most of the greatest contributions that came from them too). Is there a chance for Moro, Granola and whatever to appear in games right now? Yes, but it's very small and expect only a Dimps game to feature them. Other developers will certainly play safe and feature only what's known.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:07 am

Grimlock wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:56 am
Xeogran wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:39 am
Umm, Kuriza appeared in Budokai 2 and Neko Majin Z in a DS DBZ game. They're both in DB Heroes too.
As well as Gine, Jaco and Goku (Dragon Ball Minus). These are most likely all the characters that had had no anime appearance but appeared in games even so.

Those are the exceptions. It's still more common that a character will start getting merchandising and appearing in games after their debut appearance in the anime. Unless, by luck (if they go like "you know what? Forget it, even though these characters don't appear in the anime, we'll feature them!), they appear somewhere else by chance or by special occasion.

Another thing to notice is that all of those characters appeared in a Dimps game. Because Dimps has become a huge and important pillar of Dragon Ball by now. If it weren't for them, those characters would still be where they've always been (that and we wouldn't have most of the greatest contributions that came from them too). Is there a chance for Moro, Granola and whatever to appear in games right now? Yes, but it's very small and expect only a Dimps game to feature them. Other developers will certainly play safe and feature only what's known.
Dimps are the developers of Xenoverse 2 right?

When they'd rather add literally Jiren but without his shirt instead of Moro, 1 year after his arc ended, what are the chances :lol:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Grimlock » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 am

The chances of Moro appearing in a Xenoverse/Dimps game is higher than in any other game by other developers. Still, as one can expect, Dimps will also prioritize those with an anime appearance for obvious reasons. So it stands to reason that Jiren was selected over Moro.

That reminds me to give kudos again to CyberConnect2 for adapting Majin Buu saga of Trunks in Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot. That would fall in the "special occasion" category, where they probably thought "well, since the anime barely showed anything, let's do it ourselves". Also because they probably realized the DLC would be a lot shorter without it. We were very, very lucky that they decided to do it, but that's not common, and people shouldn't expect stuff like that to happen every time.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:43 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:41 am
Mr_CINDER wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:59 am DB super volume 16 came in top 10 i think,however In my humble opinion they dont consider toyotaro as heir or replacement for toriyama, which is fine because toyotaro as i said is garbage and not fit to continue DB's legacy and cant even write a decent arc to save his life.
I base this off of the final list Oricon published a few days ago. DBS doesn't appear anywhere on the list of the Top 30 best selling manga volume from November 2020 to November 2021, despite the climax of the Moro arc and beginning of the new arc being between this time frame. This is honestly pathetic for a product with the Dragon Ball name attached to it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... on/.180076

The Top 10 best-selling manga of 2021 is this:
Jujutsu Kaisen: 30.9 million copies sold
Demon Slayer: 29.5 million copies sold
Tokyo Revengers: 24.9 million copies sold
Attack on Titan: 7.3 million copies sold
My Hero Academia: 7 million copies sold
One Piece: 7 million copies sold
Chainsaw Man: 5.2 million copies sold
Spy x Family: 4.9 million copies sold
Kingdom: 4.6 million copies sold
Haikyuu: 4.3 million copies sold
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/11/29/t ... -revealed/

That even a volleyball anime (Haikyuu) is outselling DBS is honestly sad, it's Dragon Ball, how could it fall so low :think:

Like Broly, this new movie will have to carry a lot.
Thats because its finished manga ,The highest selling volume FOR DBS was the 6th volume that sold 400K copies https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... 18/.130071. DBS was there in top 50 best selling manga in 2020 list which is pretty good for a finished manga https://comicbook.com/anime/news/top-ma ... ales-list/, Comparing with top 10 list is pointless. Plus who the hell cares If DBS sales or not Its a goddam 27.7 billion dollar media franchise THE most profitable Media franchise for Toei and shueisha, The other TOEI Properties are Super Sentai 15.4 billion, Fist of the north star which is worth 14.8 billion then One piece- 11.4 billion dollar then Pre cure 8.39 billion, and then come Demon Slayer which is worth 9.31 billion.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:01 pm

I wonder if a XV3 would include Moro, Merus or Granola... I doubt they would include characters from an on-going arc(we don't even have UE colors), but I do think they would include Moro and Merus, at least.

Certainly, not having an official VA for those characters can't affect the decision that much, can it?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:42 pm

This is a thread for the upcoming 2022 theatrical film, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. If you wish to discuss any other aspect of the franchise, please find (or create) a more-appropriate thread to do so. Thank you!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Alruneia » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:20 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:42 pm This is a thread for the upcoming 2022 theatrical film, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. If you wish to discuss any other aspect of the franchise, please find (or create) a more-appropriate thread to do so. Thank you!
Thanks for saving me from going into a rant post that would probably have been inappropriate. :P I'll still say it but in a milder way, though:
Since this is the main thread about the upcoming movie, when I open up the forum and see that there's a bunch of new posts in the thread, I can't help but get excited and think that maybe some new information has been revealed or leaked or whatever else. Because even with the kinda wonky 3D graphics and the odd-looking plot with the Red Ribbon Army, I'm still excited to see the movie and I still want to learn more about it. So when I open the thread and just find a bunch of posts doing their best to drag the manga through the mud, which has nothing to do with the movie, I feel tricked. I don't particularly appreciate that. Like, enjoy what you enjoy and hate what you hate, but do you have to do it right here?
If I go back in the thread I think I already posted something like this once. This doesn't need to be a thing that keeps happening. Please.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:21 am

Alruneia wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:20 pm Thanks for saving me from going into a rant post that would probably have been inappropriate. :P I'll still say it but in a milder way, though:
Since this is the main thread about the upcoming movie, when I open up the forum and see that there's a bunch of new posts in the thread, I can't help but get excited and think that maybe some new information has been revealed or leaked or whatever else. Because even with the kinda wonky 3D graphics and the odd-looking plot with the Red Ribbon Army, I'm still excited to see the movie and I still want to learn more about it. So when I open the thread and just find a bunch of posts doing their best to drag the manga through the mud, which has nothing to do with the movie, I feel tricked. I don't particularly appreciate that. Like, enjoy what you enjoy and hate what you hate, but do you have to do it right here?
If I go back in the thread I think I already posted something like this once. This doesn't need to be a thing that keeps happening. Please.
Nothing meant to keep happen but it happens, DB dont need to move to 3D yet it happened , Toyotaro Dont need to be the Forceful heir or replacement for Toriyama yet it happened, DBS dosent need to stop after earning billions of dollar in 2018 and 19 yet it happened, The same way This topic is changing but it never meant to happen.Sorry that we cant be sushine and rainbow like you are we are just expressing concerns and frustation about this franchise and the direction it is going in to.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:43 am

I believe this movie will have lots of background hints and trivia that people will notice only on their 5th rewatch :lol:
The trailer already has plenty.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:50 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:50 pm We know from various interviews now that they hold group meetings to review several ideas for each film (one ended up being Broly) and manga arc (we ended up with Moro and Granolla).

Who's to say some of those ideas weren't "explore another universe" and such? I'd say it's actually more likely than not; it's not like the very people responsible for the stories don't know their own current stories. Thing is, Toriyama at the very least didn't feel compelled to tell those stories, and whatever push came from Shueisha was either in line with Toriyama's train of thought, or didn't outrank him.

Even if I don't end up liking the story being told, I'm far more interested in reading something that Toriyama and Toyotaro feel strongly about telling than one they feel pressured or obligated into.
That's not the subject of the discussion, but I think it's worth bringing up that in the interview Toyo gave to the DB Official website celebrating the release of volume 16, he claims that during the planning of Granolah arc he wasn't sure about which universe he should use, so I would say the idea of new stories featuring other universes are definitely on the table.

Toriyama (and probably Toyo and the others involved in planning the series) just seem to be more interested in telling stories that don't take place in those universes or that use the characters present in it. But who knows, that might change later

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by EGonzo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:15 am

Alruneia wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:20 pm
VegettoEX wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:42 pm This is a thread for the upcoming 2022 theatrical film, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero. If you wish to discuss any other aspect of the franchise, please find (or create) a more-appropriate thread to do so. Thank you!
Thanks for saving me from going into a rant post that would probably have been inappropriate. :P I'll still say it but in a milder way, though:
Since this is the main thread about the upcoming movie, when I open up the forum and see that there's a bunch of new posts in the thread, I can't help but get excited and think that maybe some new information has been revealed or leaked or whatever else. Because even with the kinda wonky 3D graphics and the odd-looking plot with the Red Ribbon Army, I'm still excited to see the movie and I still want to learn more about it. So when I open the thread and just find a bunch of posts doing their best to drag the manga through the mud, which has nothing to do with the movie, I feel tricked. I don't particularly appreciate that. Like, enjoy what you enjoy and hate what you hate, but do you have to do it right here?
If I go back in the thread I think I already posted something like this once. This doesn't need to be a thing that keeps happening. Please.
Exactly. I'm not a fan of the manga, but if I want to discuss how the manga sucks I'll go to a thread about that. I'm here to discuss the movie, and that's what I want to see.

I'm excited for it, because it's looking different and new instead of another battle-heavy save the world story (which I like, btw)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm

I forgot to join in on this thread, but I'm here now!

I gotta wonder if Piccolo will be a minor role as usual but given top billing in marketing because he's so recognizable, or if he'll actually have something more.

I get that this is DB and the actual people making it don't care about giving their other side characters anything more than passing moments (and usually more so the anime than the manga), but I hope we'll get something more substantial this time around.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:59 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm I gotta wonder if Piccolo will be a minor role as usual but given top billing in marketing because he's so recognizable, or if he'll actually have something more.
He's training Pan, who I think will be fairly prominent, so I think he'll have a big role. I know it's dangerous to hope, but he's my favorite character! I need this lol :D
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by omaro34 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:44 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:59 pm
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:33 pm I gotta wonder if Piccolo will be a minor role as usual but given top billing in marketing because he's so recognizable, or if he'll actually have something more.
He's training Pan, who I think will be fairly prominent, so I think he'll have a big role. I know it's dangerous to hope, but he's my favorite character! I need this lol :D
Don’t get your hopes up. It’s still very unlikely he’ll play any kind of major role.

What’s different this time around is Toshio is being invited to major Dragonball events along with Nozawa, which hasn’t happened before for previous films.

Still, don’t get your hopes up.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:31 pm

I'm OK with him not having a major role as long as it's an important one. If Pan is important in the movie, Piccolo training her at least means he'll be effective.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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