Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Cipher » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 am

Re: Whose idea:

A smaller-scale, Earth-based setting was a Dragon Room suggestion.

The Red Ribbon Army came from Toriyama’s first rough outline.

Source: Iyoku V-Jump interview (in the midst of translating for Kanzenshuu)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by emperior » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:51 am

:evil:
Cipher wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:07 am Re: Whose idea:

A smaller-scale, Earth-based setting was a Dragon Room suggestion.

The Red Ribbon Army came from Toriyama’s first rough outline.

Source: Iyoku V-Jump interview (in the midst of translating for Kanzenshuu)
Thanks!

I wonder what the rationale was to make it a smaller Earth-centric story was. I would understand it if they released a movie every year, but it took them so long to release this one… this movie is fun, but it doesn’t seem like it progresses the story much.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Cipher » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:13 am

You can read through the lines in Iyoku’s continuity comment that they’re not interested in progressing the story too much or bogging the films down in continuity. So expect more crowd-pleasing one-offs along the lines of “F” through Superhero, I’d suppose.

At most you’ll get recurring characters and new forms, which is as much as either of the last two movies gave us. They’re just fun romps.
Last edited by Cipher on Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Goku9001 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:54 am

I posted this on neoseeker but these are my thoughts on the Iyoku interview. Generally positive and reassuring.

Link to the interview: https://www.imageantra.com/super-hero-t ... nga-canon/

This basically confirms a lot of our suspicions. Super Hero falls within the general placement of the events that occur within Dragon Ball. As such, we should come to expect the events of Super Hero to occur in all stories that Toriyama wants to tell. But, it doesn't strictly occur exactly as is within the manga timeline because it's a different story to tell. While the manga follows the events of Broly with the Moro and Granolah arcs (and whatever else might come after), Super Hero was made as a direct continuation to Broly. The core audience of Super Hero are fans who have kept up with the anime and watched Broly. " 'To begin with, the movie is written purely as a sequel to Dragon Ball Super: Broly.' We wanted to resume and meet the expectations of all those who have stayed with Dragon Ball until now, in that line." As such, Super Hero acts as a separate story or continuity that acts as if the events of the manga never happened to target a specific audience.

What's fascinating is that Iyoku actually draws a distinction between Super Hero and the manga by establishing Goku and Vegeta have their own stories where they encounter new enemies. "And in the pages of V-Jump, we have the ongoing story of Goku and Vegeta. We will see new strong enemies appear, and new stories and events will continue to progress." This should put to rest as to why Goku and Vegeta views Jiren and Broly was respectable benchmarks for instance. The stories in which Goku and Vegeta battled stronger enemies simply didn't happen or were never accounted for.

This doesn't mean Toriyama is carelessly slopping things together. He just has a very liberal approach to it so that he can adapt the movie as he sees fit. What is reassuring is that Toriyama is at least overlooking both stories so he's at least considering how Super Hero impacts the narrative of the manga. That is the whole point of the interview so contrary to what people think, Toriyama definitely does care to some extent.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by emperior » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 am

Yeah well Super Hero still fits with Moro and Granolah, more or less. Toyotaro surely received the script when it was over, to ensure he did not do anything which could make his manga and the movie obviously incompatible.

The movie also specifically addresses how Broly being on Beerus’ planet is only a recent thing, as Beerus only slept 4 months and Broly wasn’t there before.

It even kind of makes sense for Broly to go there post-Granolah, as there’s been a lot of talk about Freeza and they must have remembered about him.

If the next movie has been already written/conceptualized, I think it is safe to assume that Toyotaro already got something so that he can plan his stories better.
Moreover, Toriyama, as they reiterate, has been supervising it, so it’s also up to him to fit his movies with it.

Remember that Broly too had been written before the Tournament of Power was over, so this is nothing new. Super Hero was obviously written before Moro and Granolah so it feels a bit weird how they talk about Jiren, but there’s nothing wrong with it. Obviously they couldn’t have mentioned Moro or anyone else because that would have alienated every anime-only fan.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Xeogran » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:16 am

emperior wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 am Yeah well Super Hero still fits with Moro and Granolah, more or less. Toyotaro surely received the script when it was over, to ensure he did not do anything which could make his manga and the movie obviously incompatible.
I think Piccolo forgetting his Gigantification despite fighting 7-3 who used it against him is a small plot hole. Though it's been like uh.. 2 years since the Moro arc? I guess?

But still, thats' definitely far more recent usage of the technique than 23rd Budokai.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:23 am

Kagari wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:20 amThat hardly matters when he's largely following the whims of his editors for the past two films and that probably isn't changing any time soon. These are collaborative efforts, not just Toriyama doing everything or making every major decision.
It's still effort for Toriyama to choose which ideas to work and write the story/script. Realistically, how long would he continue to do that before retiring? Toriyama is currently 67 and could be 70 by the time the next film is released. Super Hero could've easily taken place after EoZ so that Gohan and Piccolo would keep those new forms longer. Neither one participated in the 28th tournament so it might be that these new forms were temporary.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:37 am

But unlike Gohan, we don't know what happens if a Namekuseijin slacks off¹. They can lose whatever they get... or not. I'm confident we'll be seeing more of Piccolo's transformations. The thing is, now that he has (at least) two forms, either Piccolo should have been able to defend Earth (from Red Pants army, the remnants of Freeza’s soldiers and Mira’s army), or even with those powers, he still wasn't strong enough to fight everyone.

Also, Piccolo's line for not participating in the tournament is filler, so it could be that even with his new forms it's true (he can't keep up with Goku) or we simply ignore that scene.


(¹ Toriyama already said that Piccolo also trains).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by sigmasigma » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:58 am

In EOZ Gohan did say he would also participate in the tournament, if he knew they had to be seated just next to the arena.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by emperior » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:25 am

sigmasigma wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:58 am In EOZ Gohan did say he would also participate in the tournament, if he knew they had to be seated just next to the arena.
Well Gohan is a biologist right? Of course he wouldn’t really want to show himself at a popular martial arts tournament, to keep a lower profile. Especially when competing with fanatics like Goku and Vegeta who like to fly and fire ki blasts and do other flashy things.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:46 pm

Grimlock wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:37 am But unlike Gohan, we don't know what happens if a Namekuseijin slacks off¹.
That's true. He could still keep the transformations and just decide not to participate. I was thinking that they both were interested in participating in the 25th tournament but not the 28th for whatever reason so it's possible these were temporary. No way to know for sure until they appear in the next film.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by lancerman » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:31 pm

Skar wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:46 pm
Grimlock wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:37 am But unlike Gohan, we don't know what happens if a Namekuseijin slacks off¹.
That's true. He could still keep the transformations and just decide not to participate. I was thinking that they both were interested in participating in the 25th tournament but not the 28th for whatever reason so it's possible these were temporary. No way to know for sure until they appear in the next film.
It's also worth noting that by that point Mr. Satan and Boo have been rigging the tournament for years and Gohan being his son in law would know that more than anything else. I could see him not really caring to fight his infant daugher, his brother, his father, and father in law if it came down to it. A tournament really wasn't an end of the world situation that Piccolo chastised Gohan for not being prepared for.

Also this film makes it clear that Toriyama views all Ultimate Gohan and this new Gohan form to be just different transformation so the Gohan we see in EoZ could change appearance just by upgrading to them.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by emperior » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:40 am

I doubt it that Piccolo will ever slack off. He’s never done so and he is always telling Gohan not to. Even Gohan is doing training in secret nowadays, and he looked bulked up in the final manga chapters so he likely kept on training after Super Hero, and so did Piccolo.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by DBZfan29 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:18 am

Not sure if it’s region locked but you can watch the first five minutes of the movie starting at 18:00 JT.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ170UAbXVo
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Goku9001 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:55 am

Xeogran wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:16 am
emperior wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 am Yeah well Super Hero still fits with Moro and Granolah, more or less. Toyotaro surely received the script when it was over, to ensure he did not do anything which could make his manga and the movie obviously incompatible.
I think Piccolo forgetting his Gigantification despite fighting 7-3 who used it against him is a small plot hole. Though it's been like uh.. 2 years since the Moro arc? I guess?

But still, thats' definitely far more recent usage of the technique than 23rd Budokai.
Super Hero as it is now mainly serves as a different story that is a direct continuation of Broly, so there's naturally going to be some elements that deviate from the manga. " 'Between this movie and Toyotaro-sensei’s manga, we currently have two lines of Dragon Ball Super running.' Iyoku began. 'To begin with, the movie is written purely as a sequel to Dragon Ball Super: Broly.' " That doesn't mean the events of Super Hero does not occur in the manga timeline (at some point) because Iyoku does talk about how these stories can co-exist. It only means that they are designed as separate stories for the time being because it allows Toriyama and Toyotaro to freely approach the series as they see fit (within reason) while still fitting both stories within the DragonBall timeline.

Piccolo never used Gigantification since the 23rd based on the story of events that Super Hero takes place so it makes sense why Piccolo may not have considered it. It also explains a few key things such as Gohan's complacency towards his own training, Goku commenting on Vegeta's meditation, Jiren and Broly being deemed as benchmarks for Goku and Vegeta, among other things. I'm certain these are all taken into consideration once Toyotaro gets to Super Hero as Toriyama is heavily involved in the manga as well.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:01 pm

The 2D recap about Red Ribbon may be my favourite recap this franchise ever had.
The art, the transitions, the animation... All top notch. Can't get enough of it.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:53 pm

emperior wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:32 am Yeah well Super Hero still fits with Moro and Granolah, more or less. Toyotaro surely received the script when it was over, to ensure he did not do anything which could make his manga and the movie obviously incompatible.
Explain how Gohan didn't know Piccolo could grow big in Super Hero. This is a big contradiction IMO.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by eledoremassis02 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:56 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKVae3AKLZs

I agree 100% makes me with the rest of the movie was animated like this, though I did warm up to the CG

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by cuartas » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:18 pm

Alright, is this movie being a flop financially?
Because the future of a 2D continuation and the chance to keep having people like Shida, Takahashi, Manabe, Karazawa, Tu, Nikaido, Higashide and more depends on it.

Toei won't let go 3D animation if this abomination succeeds

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:43 pm

cuartas wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:18 pm Alright, is this movie being a flop financially?
Because the future of a 2D continuation and the chance to keep having people like Shida, Takahashi, Manabe, Karazawa, Tu, Nikaido, Higashide and more depends on it.

Toei won't let go 3D animation if this abomination succeeds
If you want to know how well the movie is doing at the box office, there's a thread for that

Long story short... compared to the previous three movies, it's underperforming in Japan. It's still making a decent amount of money, but it's very likely the film won't reach the estimates Toei had for the movie in terms of the cumulative revenue at the Japanese box office.

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