Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[PurestEvil]

No I said I hope this movie fails so that Toei can maybe bring back the weekly anime and we can go back to having weekly animated content instead of 4 yearly animated content. Frankly I couldn't care any less about the visual style.

That is such a stupid bet to make...
As it stands now, this movie is guaranteed to make a profit. Not just because of the teasers of CGI, but because it is literally the first DB film in four years, like you said. The only condition they need to fulfill is to not fuck up the visuals.

If this movie does fail and we get your desired weekly TV show that ends up being worse, then you will know who told you so.

No. The movie will make profit because it's Dragon Ball, but if it's the least successful movie of the new era (less successful than BoG which set off the revival and movies centred around Frieza and Broly) then it will be proof that interest can't be kept without any animated content for years.

And Super's first 3 arcs had a botched production because Toei looked at the success of RoF (came up in april) and decided to bank on that success and make a new animated series (which would come out in july, 3 months is an insignificant amount of time to make a new series).

Meanwhile if this movie flopped (and by flop obviously no one means that no one will buy it, it just means it will underperform for a DRAGON BALL movie, because reminder that it's not a "Generic anime no one cares about" movie), then Toei would get the memo that they can't keep interest up in the franchise by not releasing anything for years. And consequently they wouldn't want to rush the new series like the first time because they wouldn't have any success to bank on.

Toei could also assume no one wants animated Dragon Ball content anymore and just take an even longer hiatus.
It’s actually quite bold of you to assume Toei’s primary goal is to keep the fans’ interests in mind rather than profit.

And No the movie isn't guaranteed to make success just because it's the first animated content in 4 years, that's not how it works, in fact it's the opposite. Otherwise all shonen would just drop anime series to focus just on yearly movies. If you don't give people content for 4 years aside from a monthly manga and a monthly promotional anime for a stupid videogame, you're not going to keep interest up.

That’s why they are making this movie in the first fuckin place, though? To rekindle interest?
If you think this film will fail, then why didn’t BoG or Yo Son Goku Returns fail?
Also, have you ever heard of Lupin III? Most of its content is produced with yearly movies, and it survived the turn of the millennium.

[MCDaveG]

I just don't get this toxic db Fandom, I remember when there was no continuation of db product after gt flopped for a decade ppl were whining for more content than dbz BoG came out everyone was going nuts for more content again then fukkatsu no f came out than the series followed that same yr don't get me wrong I did had problems with some of the super story and art but most of the things we got in super was fan servicy the only thing more than half of the fan base wanted was to get a story close to eoz or post eoz were finally getting it and the fan base is literally split in half I mean we just only got fucking teaser which is not even fully cgi there is elements of 2d and 3dcgi mixture which broly movie also had but mainly in fight scenes I'll decide if it looks good only after watching the full length trailer also we don't even fucking know what the plot going to be I just don't understand some fans literally wanting the upcoming movie to fail just so they can have more anime it doesn't make any sense to have an anime after a movie flops knowing this fan base there will still be some weirdos trashing on the TV series going on its better to have a movie that makes a lot of profit and also gets a TV anime which is what I think is gonna happen have faith, I'm 90 % sure the TV anime will be starting at some point in 2022!!

It's the fandom these days... still I think DB fandom is better than the Star Wars one... so much childhood raped in there.

But I get you, I actually enjoyed GT as a kid and with all this DBAF and weird rumors back in the day, I so much wanted a new series as they set-up this neverending formula with Goku being almost immortal and went somewhere with Shenron with new generation of Vegeta and Goku Juniors...
The last 2 Z movies and more so Super, that went past Freeza was the kind of sequel that I always dreamed of as a kid and Tournament Of Power was everything I could've asked for with all the team in action and Gohan being his Z himself and not a Super Saiyan dad in tuxedo.
I didn't like the rush ending of Super, as the last few episodes were kinda like tie up the loose knots fast, as we are nearing the last episode we agreed on. Not talking about the execution itself, as the series started to look good only when the TOP started.
Then they topped it with Broly movie, which was fun, but revisiting old villains like Freeza and Broly was a bit hit or miss for many fans...

Now with the CG, it's even harder to animate in CG as opposed to 2D animation to nail the pre-established 2D anime look, just look to what lenghts Arc Sys goes just to emulate the anime feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZsboyfs-L4
And that is just video game with lower production value on the animation itself with some system limitations.

CG is great tool for storytelling, or VFX if you can pull everything off and lighting being one of the main factors and with TOEI, I am seriously afraid from the end result. Saint Seiya for Netflix didn't end well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoS_gveqRqc
Let's see what they can do with bigger budget.

[Gt91]

Little details about Piccolo

https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_370.html

[TheSaiyanGod]

I don't really care about it being CGI as long as it looks beautiful and the story is good. But it's understandable if some people didn't like the change because none of this is really going to trump the old style, especially after the quality of animation that the Broly movie brought (and that most expected it to continue). So it's kind of worrying if they stick with this vision for later projects since I'm pretty sure most will always prefer the previous one

[Skar]

And btw there hasn't been a new movie in 4 years, meanwhile My Hero Academia released yearly movies for 3 years while keeping a seasonal animated series and a weekly manga.

My Hero Academia is a new ongoing series compared to DB. Once the manga ends and the rest is covered in the anime, it'll likely slow down as well. DB is a little different since it's a completed series and it seems most fans are only interested in seeing more if it involves Toriyama. If the anime had returned already, they would've adapted the arcs Toriyama was involved with then have to slap together a few more and pad them out to keep the anime going. I think it makes sense to focus on other projects in the meantime.

[JulieYBM]

And btw there hasn't been a new movie in 4 years, meanwhile My Hero Academia released yearly movies for 3 years while keeping a seasonal animated series and a weekly manga.

My Hero Academia is a new ongoing series compared to DB. Once the manga ends and the rest is covered in the anime, it'll likely slow down as well. DB is a little different since it's a completed series and it seems most fans are only interested in seeing more if it involves Toriyama. If the anime had returned already, they would've adapted the arcs Toriyama was involved with then have to slap together a few more and pad them out to keep the anime going. I think it makes sense to focus on other projects in the meantime.

The difference is more so planning and staff availability. Bones and the HeroAca committee planned better and thus have staff available. Toei wants to push CG and also don't have staff available for hand drawn anyway.

[Grimlock]

If you think this film will fail, then why didn’t BoG or Yo Son Goku Returns fail?

Tarble OVA didn't "fail" because it is... well, an OVA, not a movie. It was screened in an event to celebrate Shonen Jump's 40th anniversary.

Little details about Piccolo

https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_370.html

They're really excited about how this movie is going to depict Piccolo in manga colors, aren't they? I mean, from my point of view, it goes like: "eh, we have a game that uses manga colors, so what's up with all that excitement, guys? ". But I get that from their point of view, considering it's the first time they do something like this, it's probably a reason to be all excited about it.

I am kinda curious to see all the other characters in manga colors too. But it seems like Piccolo will have five fingers, even though in the manga he has four.

About the house thing, it reminds me of there also having images of Bardock and Gine's house being "highlighted" too. We can't see much of it in the movie, and I wish we had, though.

[Skar]

The difference is more so planning and staff availability. Bones and the HeroAca committee planned better and thus have staff available. Toei wants to push CG and also don't have staff available for hand drawn anyway.

Was that stated anywhere because they rebooted Dragon Quest and Digimon Adventure before continuing DBS. If it was only due to planning and staff availability, why have those anime come first? I assume one of the reasons why MHA is seasonal is to avoid getting ahead of the manga. The DBS anime only has Toriyama's outlines and a monthly manga so it wouldn't take long to adapt what's currently available unless they really pad them out.

Let's say they did bring back the anime in 2019 or 2020. Moro ended in December 2020 so the only completed storyline Toriyama was involved in was Broly. Some people were claiming Toei would ignore the manga arcs so what would they do after an anime retelling of Broly? A few anime-only arcs with no involved from Toriyama or even less than the manga? I think that's unlikely since Toriyama would ignore them in the next arc he writes.

[PurestEvil]

If you think this film will fail, then why didn’t BoG or Yo Son Goku Returns fail?

Tarble OVA didn't "fail" because it is... well, an OVA, not a movie. It was screened in an event to celebrate Shonen Jump's 40th anniversary.

Okay, but my point still stands for BoG (which came out 5 years after Yo Son Goku Returns)

[JulieYBM]

The difference is more so planning and staff availability. Bones and the HeroAca committee planned better and thus have staff available. Toei wants to push CG and also don't have staff available for hand drawn anyway.

Was that stated anywhere because they rebooted Dragon Quest and Digimon Adventure before continuing DBS. If it was only due to planning and staff availability, why have those anime come first? I assume one of the reasons why MHA is seasonal is to avoid getting ahead of the manga. The DBS anime only has Toriyama's outlines and a monthly manga so it wouldn't take long to adapt what's currently available unless they really pad them out.

Toei Animation is going to have multiple projects in gestation, planned years out. There's going to eventually be a hick-up somewhere and a series is going to need to end. Doing Dai and Digimon fulfill commitments planned years in advance.

The DBS anime ended because the production committee decided to end it for various reasons specific to each member. I don't doubt that the series could have continued past the Tournament of Power with or without new Toriyama outlines as their base, it was simply decided to not do so. As a result, staff moved on to other projects with heathier schedules. Once it is decided that the stars align and commitments are fulfilled I am sure that Dragon Ball will get a new weekly series.

The decision for HeroAca to be seasonal is probably several fold. Scheduling is a lot easier when you're allowed to produce year-round but only have to air half the episodes you produce. That the staff have been allowed this grace allows for them to produce better episodes and also plan for a movie, especially if said movie is actually planned ahead and the staff know when and where they need staff. The first two films really hampered the weekly series but planning seems to have been better for the third film and thus the TV series has not suffered as much.

[Skar]

Toei Animation is going to have multiple projects in gestation, planned years out. There's going to eventually be a hick-up somewhere and a series is going to need to end. Doing Dai and Digimon fulfill commitments planned years in advance.

The DBS anime ended because the production committee decided to end it for various reasons specific to each member. I don't doubt that the series could have continued past the Tournament of Power with or without new Toriyama outlines as their base, it was simply decided to not do so. As a result, staff moved on to other projects with heathier schedules. Once it is decided that the stars align and commitments are fulfilled I am sure that Dragon Ball will get a new weekly series.

I don't know how long DQ and Digimon were planned in advance but I find it hard to believe that the reason the DBS anime didn't continue directly after the ToP was mainly due to not having enough staff. The director of Broly said that the series continuing depended on Toriyama. They didn't have anything from Toriyama until Broly and whatever he contributed to the new manga arcs which all came out months after the anime ended.

[Mister_Popo]

Some seem to console themselves with the thought that this CGI animation is a one-off experiment or just to avoid using a 2D staff now. And an anime, if it were to return, will probably still be 2D.

It costs just more to make a CGI movie than a 2D movie if you're still developing the technology for it. The return on investment will only come in the longer term.
How do you do that?
Just by making more movies and why not a full time anime once the technology is on point and it is well received by fans. Everything will stand or fall with how this is received. Not firstly in terms of criticism, but in terms of ticket sales. Does this movie sell well? There is a very good chance that what follows will be in a similar style.

[Chuquita]

The Brolli movie performed amazingly well, but they didn't apply that art style to everything that came after it. Heroes still looks like Yamamuro. General DB promo art still has a variety of art styles.

[Xeogran]

Not firstly in terms of criticism, but in terms of ticket sales. Does this movie sell well? There is a very good chance that what follows will be in a similar style.

It's a Dragon Ball movie. It will sell because lots of people are hungry for new "animated" DBS content. Though I have no idea if it will do Broly's numbers, considering that movie had all the hype, especially Gogeta vs Broly, behind it.

[Mister_Popo]

Not firstly in terms of criticism, but in terms of ticket sales. Does this movie sell well? There is a very good chance that what follows will be in a similar style.

It's a Dragon Ball movie. It will sell because lots of people are hungry for new "animated" DBS content. Though I have no idea if it will do Broly's numbers, considering that movie had all the hype, especially Gogeta vs Broly, behind it.

Yes, of course, i only wanted to express with that the main parameter that counts for the franchise.
The thing is: not from start but in the long term, it will cost less to make the animation in 3D.
And more than probably it will sell very good, that's why i am sceptic about a return to 2D thereafter.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

In response to those hoping the movie will fail simply due to it being the CG title, I hope you realize what you're saying.

Toei, at this moment, literally has no staff available to tackle on 2D IP, because the animators are busy with multiple projects. Do I think Toei wanted a 2D Dragon Ball film after the success of Broly, thanks to a new and better character designer, competent director, and talented animators? I'd like to think so. However it's not a wrong thing to want to refresh it visually for this movie just to see how it goes. They are trying a new thing after 20 movies, 3 TV specials, a couple of OVAs of 2D. A 3D movie is not the end of the world.

You(fandom in general), who throw tantrum like a 5 year-old, fail to realize that life is never set in stone and get what you want all the time. It just... doesn't work like that, especially in a situation where there's gonna be some kind of issue to work around, and people may not enjoy as the result. This is one of many reasons I do not enjoy social media most of the time. It's becoming too toxic and tiresome.

But back at Dragon Ball, who knows it could end up being an excellent slice of life movie?

[Mister_Popo]

The Brolli movie performed amazingly well, but they didn't apply that art style to everything that came after it. Heroes still looks like Yamamuro. General DB promo art still has a variety of art styles.

Yes, but there is a huge cost difference between using different 2D-styles and -animators and developping full-blown CGI-animation for all the figures, if that were truely the case, which we only assume at this point.
They'll need to invest seriously in reprogramming Toriyamas world into 3D (new staff, apply new technology ...).
There seems little return of investment to put all that effort into that for just one movie.
It makes more sense as a long term project.

[Chuquita]

The Brolli movie performed amazingly well, but they didn't apply that art style to everything that came after it. Heroes still looks like Yamamuro. General DB promo art still has a variety of art styles.

Yes, but there is a huge cost difference between using different 2D-styles and -animators and developping full-blown CGI-animation for all the figures, if that were truely the case, which we only assume at this point.
They'll need to invest seriously in reprogramming Toriyamas world into 3D (new staff, apply new technology ...).
There seems little return of investment to put all that effort into that for just one movie.
It makes more sense as a long term project.

If that's what they want to do, then that's what they want to do. While cgi can look amazing, I'll always prefer 2D animation and that's partly because that's what I grew up with, partly because I love the way talented animators can make their drawings move with that squash and stretch fluidity where most cgi leans into realistic physics, and because of how accessible and affordable it is to a young kid. Any kid can ask their parents for paper and a pencil, you need a decent amount of $ to buy the software and hardware to make your own cgi cartoon.

Finally, and I know this was already talked about in Ajay's video, when you use 3D models you lose some of the individuality of the artists who create each cut. Yeah the Brolli movie had a bunch of scenes where the art style shifted, but I love that and it's part of the charm for me.

I wonder if their next One Piece movie will also be cgi--I think that would convince me the most that that's where it's headed.

[Skar]

There seems little return of investment to put all that effort into that for just one movie.
It makes more sense as a long term project.

When I checking highest budget anime films, Captain Harlock by Toei was #3 and Stand by Me Doraemon was #2. That was the final Harlock film and I believe there was only one other Doraemon film entirely in CGI after that one that was released in 2014. Those are kinda the opposite since Harlock lost money while Stand by Me Doraemon was the highest grossing film in that franchise so it's definitely possible this could be a one time CGI Dragon Ball movie.

[omaro34]

Little details about Piccolo

https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_370.html

Piccolo fans: Don’t get your hopes up about him getting a power boost or doing anything of significance in the movie. We’ve been fooled before, don’t fall for it again.