Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:05 am

Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:58 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 am
sangofe wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:09 am


Hopefully they'll never release Dragon Ball in cgi...
There's precedent for cool CG from Toei productions. I'll hold out for this: https://youtu.be/LZ1PDm9bhkA
I've seen people post this and another clip from Pretty Cure. While the models look really good, it's the motion I'm not too keen on. It looks a little stiff, for lack of a better word.

I'm hoping Toei hiring more 3D artists means they're aiming for an improvement in this department as well.
The animation and directing are the best part! It feels like 2D in the timing and use of effects, which I feel is why makes the scene so exciting. The love for filmmaking and animation really comes through. The variety of the poses isn't the greatest (seems like they were confined to mostly blast attacks) but the scenes really has this bursting love for the series and a sort of defiant "fuck you, we'll go all out despite our limited time" to it that really draws me in. Also, I jist love how gay it is.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by sangofe » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 am

Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:58 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 am
sangofe wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:09 am


Hopefully they'll never release Dragon Ball in cgi...
There's precedent for cool CG from Toei productions. I'll hold out for this: https://youtu.be/LZ1PDm9bhkA
I've seen people post this and another clip from Pretty Cure. While the models look really good, it's the motion I'm not too keen on. It looks a little stiff, for lack of a better word.

I'm hoping Toei hiring more 3D artists means they're aiming for an improvement in this department as well.

It just doesn't do it for me. Looks like a video game, not anime.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Michsi » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:30 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:05 am
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:58 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 am

There's precedent for cool CG from Toei productions. I'll hold out for this: https://youtu.be/LZ1PDm9bhkA
I've seen people post this and another clip from Pretty Cure. While the models look really good, it's the motion I'm not too keen on. It looks a little stiff, for lack of a better word.

I'm hoping Toei hiring more 3D artists means they're aiming for an improvement in this department as well.
The animation and directing are the best part! It feels like 2D in the timing and use of effects, which I feel is why makes the scene so exciting. The love for filmmaking and animation really comes through. The variety of the poses isn't the greatest (seems like they were confined to mostly blast attacks) but the scenes really has this bursting love for the series and a sort of defiant "fuck you, we'll go all out despite our limited time" to it that really draws me in. Also, I jist love how gay it is.
Oh, it's definitely ambitious and passionate. I am not at all implying they were half-assing it here. There is just a fluidity and buoyancy to well done 2 D animation that I just can't see being replicated by 3 D. Even those who you'd say have mastered this type of media like Studio Orange aren't quite there yet.
Once again I reiterate that I am open to them trying 3D, but I have to first see real movie clips before I'm fully onboard .

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 am

Is there any place where I can get up to date info about the new movie, without it getting lost in discussions? Thanks.

I wonder if the grown-up Pan is before EoZ? Looks older to me than she was at the end of the story. But might be just design.
Wonder if we will finally see grown up Trunks and Goten, but for sure we won't like in the famous mistake in the GT flashback, where EoZ Pan is playing on the beach with Goten and Trunks being kids.

I think that GT screwed up Pan and made her really obnoxious, but I have no problem with her being in the show, rewriten into ''new canon'' of Super. In Z, for the short time she was there, she was actually cute and enjoyable.

What I have problem with and hope it is just the promo, is getting away from the awesome 2D animated Broly movie and go with 3D. Few have pulled it off, with Arc Sys included, as for Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball, they have 3D models and animate them as 2D show, but still, 2D looks better, as you can twist the lines and all the nunances and freedom of not being literally on model...
I wasn't impressed by the teaser at all, looks great as teaser for video game.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by emperior » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:31 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 am Is there any place where I can get up to date info about the new movie, without it getting lost in discussions? Thanks.
The official website is https://2022dbs.com/ but it’s in Japanese.

All the information so far can be found here: https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_332.html and on the Comic-Con video.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:34 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 am

What I have problem with and hope it is just the promo, is getting away from the awesome 2D animated Broly movie and go with 3D. Few have pulled it off, with Arc Sys included, as for Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball, they have 3D models and animate them as 2D show, but still, 2D looks better, as you can twist the lines and all the nunances and freedom of not being literally on model...
I wasn't impressed by the teaser at all, looks great as teaser for video game.


It doesn't look like a video game to me, the art is way too polished and the movement is too fluent for that.
It's difficult to put a convincing 2D-layer on top of three dimensional layout.
They have really put effort into it, to make it as good as it gets.
As a matter in fact, considering it's CGI, this easily could have endup up in Toy Story Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:51 am

That short teaser wasn't really enough to sell me on this CG direction. They did manage to capture Goku's character in that model and when you look at it when it's not in motion you could even mistake it for a hand drawing. It does come off as Shinani's character designs but with more detail.

It's all really going to come down to how they handle the action scenes. CG action with Dragon Ball is definitely possible. I hope it's all helmed by an experienced and talented director.

I do have to give them credit for going down this route, this is a ballsy move. I'm sure they're fully aware that a lot of anime fans don't like CG in their favourite anime, so for them to just say "fuck it" and make a CG film after the unanimous praise Broly got for its hand-drawn animation is respectable.

Even the story direction seems like a risk from them (so far, at least). I was worried that they were gonna play it safe and go the predicatble route and make someone like Cooler canon or resurrect Cell. It looks like they just let Toriyama write his own story without any editor influence/input. If you think about it, this could be Toriyama's first completely original modern Dragon Ball story that isn't a tournament (U6 and ToP arc), isn't the revival/canonisation of an older Villain ('F' and Broly) and isn't returning an older character at the forefront (Future Trunks arc). You could argue that Battle of Gods is that first original story, but that was already in development before Toriyama jumped onto the production and changed the script.

Toei's been a really good animation studio lately and they have a lot of talented staff working there, so I'm hopeful that the animation quality will turn out good. I'm still cautiously optimistic about it since this is the first time we're seeing something like this. But in regards to the story, I'm really excited by what we've seen so far.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by pepd » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:30 am

According to Herms translation correcting the subtitles, all but the new character/s are already redrawings for the anime, and Iyoku requested to color Kurilin's eyes to match Toriyama's coloring. So Piccolo and Kurilin will most likely have manga colors in the movie.

Unsure about Kurilin's age. I think they should've at least give him wrinkles when smiling. Wonder if they will quickly age him when EoZ comes or will make him look younger.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by precita » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:51 am

I think they wrote themselves into a corner with Goku and Vegeta. They progressed their characters too far too fast in Super and there's almost no other place to take them unless they start surpassing Beerus (which they should by now) and the other Gods. It really does not make sense that new powerful mortals keep popping out of the woodwork, especially in Universe 7 when nobody was supposed to be above Freeza and Boo, and they already pushed it with Broly as an unknown to the universe.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Shinsa » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:01 am

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 am Is there any place where I can get up to date info about the new movie, without it getting lost in discussions? Thanks.

I wonder if the grown-up Pan is before EoZ? Looks older to me than she was at the end of the story. But might be just design.
Wonder if we will finally see grown up Trunks and Goten, but for sure we won't like in the famous mistake in the GT flashback, where EoZ Pan is playing on the beach with Goten and Trunks being kids.

I think that GT screwed up Pan and made her really obnoxious, but I have no problem with her being in the show, rewriten into ''new canon'' of Super. In Z, for the short time she was there, she was actually cute and enjoyable.

What I have problem with and hope it is just the promo, is getting away from the awesome 2D animated Broly movie and go with 3D. Few have pulled it off, with Arc Sys included, as for Guilty Gear and Dragon Ball, they have 3D models and animate them as 2D show, but still, 2D looks better, as you can twist the lines and all the nunances and freedom of not being literally on model...
I wasn't impressed by the teaser at all, looks great as teaser for video game.
Agreed, they have something special with the Broly movie but instead of leaning more into that they are going away from it? Seems odd to me....

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:13 am

They wanted a new movie and had nobody available to handle it, so they're using CG. That's it. Capitalism demanded a new movie, Toei delivered.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Skar » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:28 am

Was it stated the entire movie's going to be CGI? The concept art looks like regular 2D animation so I thought it would be a mix of both like the last movies.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:30 am

The answer is pretty simple: it's almost impossible to make a lot more DBS-content, with the high standards of fans, with limited and very time consuming 2D-resources only. It's massively timeconsuming to make ALL those fighting sequences completely hand drawn.
They sought a solution for that, and this might co-explain why we haven't heard nothing from the animated main continuity for such a long time.
They were developing this technology, just because they felt they could not meet the high demands with Supers first round.
Problem with DBS round 1 was scheduling. CGI replaces the best possible '2D-only-schedule' everytime by a long run.
If it succeeds it's the best solution for them to make more content in a short period, maybe not from the start, but once all the models are made and they mastered the new technology, it will be less time and cost consuming for them to make more DBS.
This does no guarantee the end result will be good for everyone, but this somehow makes sense to me.
Based on that teaser, i see nothing to be upset about not just yet at this point.
I'd wait and see for the definitive result before concluding.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:53 am

I mean, they could just take the time to train and pay living wages to animators but the executives probably thing that CG is the future and thus don't want to do that, which is a shame.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Shinsa » Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:00 am

Mister_Popo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:30 am The answer is pretty simple: it's almost impossible to make a lot more DBS-content, with the high standards of fans, with limited and very time consuming 2D-resources only. It's massively timeconsuming to make ALL those fighting sequences completely hand drawn.
They sought a solution for that, and this might co-explain why we haven't heard nothing from the animated main continuity for such a long time.
They were developing this technology, just because they felt they could not meet the high demands with Supers first round.
Problem with DBS round 1 was scheduling. CGI replaces the best possible '2D-only-schedule' everytime by a long run.
If it succeeds it's the best solution for them to make more content in a short period, maybe not from the start, but once all the models are made and they mastered the new technology, it will be less time and cost consuming for them to make more DBS.
This does no guarantee the end result will be good for everyone, but this somehow makes sense to me.
Based on that teaser, i see nothing to be upset about not just yet at this point.
I'd wait and see for the definitive result before concluding.
Yea I can agree there with waiting until we first see the movie or trailer but the first teaser was alittle jarring to me.

IMO DB deserves the budget time and passion put into it. Didn't DBS Broly break records when it was released making a bunch of money? So yea I think the high quality is deserved. If the movie is full CGI I can get past it if the fight scenes are coherent unlike the second half of Broly and more importantly if the writing is done well.
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:53 am I mean, they could just take the time to train and pay living wages to animators but the executives probably thing that CG is the future and thus don't want to do that, which is a shame.
Very sad and true...... :(

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:03 pm

Shinsa wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:00 am
Mister_Popo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:30 am The answer is pretty simple: it's almost impossible to make a lot more DBS-content, with the high standards of fans, with limited and very time consuming 2D-resources only. It's massively timeconsuming to make ALL those fighting sequences completely hand drawn.
They sought a solution for that, and this might co-explain why we haven't heard nothing from the animated main continuity for such a long time.
They were developing this technology, just because they felt they could not meet the high demands with Supers first round.
Problem with DBS round 1 was scheduling. CGI replaces the best possible '2D-only-schedule' everytime by a long run.
If it succeeds it's the best solution for them to make more content in a short period, maybe not from the start, but once all the models are made and they mastered the new technology, it will be less time and cost consuming for them to make more DBS.
This does no guarantee the end result will be good for everyone, but this somehow makes sense to me.
Based on that teaser, i see nothing to be upset about not just yet at this point.
I'd wait and see for the definitive result before concluding.
Yea I can agree there with waiting until we first see the movie or trailer but the first teaser was alittle jarring to me.

IMO DB deserves the budget time and passion put into it. Didn't DBS Broly break records when it was released making a bunch of money? So yea I think the high quality is deserved. If the movie is full CGI I can get past it if the fight scenes are coherent unlike the second half of Broly and more importantly if the writing is done well.
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:53 am I mean, they could just take the time to train and pay living wages to animators but the executives probably thing that CG is the future and thus don't want to do that, which is a shame.
Very sad and true...... :(



I empathize with the fans whose heart is in 2D.
I can understand their disappointment somehow.

If you let me as a DB fan speak from the heart when you ask me the question: what do you want DB to look like in the future? Then I'll always say 'like in the Broly movie'. I'm also a big fan of 2D, and I really appreciate the styles of different animators. It doesn't have to be one-size-fits-all for me. And for people who really have a penchant for 2D animation, this choice can be quite hard. I feel with them.

On the other hand ... We have been waiting for a new anime for so long. I'd be in the front row and applaud if TOEI were to choose 'we're going after this movie for a new 2D anime series, and we're sacrificing a lot of other projects for it.' They would have to make that sacrifice. But it's all about cost and efficiency these days, and besides DB they have plenty of other projects that require their 2D animators.

If TOEI then gives us the choice 'create a lot of new DBS anime with a major CGI component' and 'very little DBS anime in 2D' ... Sorry, but if the first option also looks good, then I'm inclined to say 'if it looks good in CGI, I'd rather have that option than have very little or even nothing on my plate'.
You can always make the choice 'I don't look at it anymore' and you can't agree with the economic principle behind this, and perhaps even rightly so, but what's next with that? The animation ultimately serves the story and not the other way around.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:23 pm

Animation is no different than dialogue, it's still important. I'm giving this film a fair shake but the idea that the visuals in a visual media don't really matter is just...not right?

My guess is that we'll probably get a new weekly cartoon series in October 2022 at the earliest. Who knows, Bandai and Fuji might just keep asking for more Digimon for the 9AM Sunday timeslot. It'd be cool if Dragon Ball got a primetime slot again, although I don't think that it is entirely possible.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:23 pm Animation is no different than dialogue, it's still important. I'm giving this film a fair shake but the idea that the visuals in a visual media don't really matter is just...not right?

My guess is that we'll probably get a new weekly cartoon series in October 2022 at the earliest. Who knows, Bandai and Fuji might just keep asking for more Digimon for the 9AM Sunday timeslot. It'd be cool if Dragon Ball got a primetime slot again, although I don't think that it is entirely possible.
I mean, they could do that, but their main target is kids, and most of them watch in the morning. If One Piece is on the morning slot, why not Dragon Ball while they are at it?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by IntangibleFancy » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:03 pm

Do you guys think there will be more new characters than the two that were revealed? I'm not really a fan of their designs.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Movie #2: "Super Hero" Coming 2022! (Toriyama Scripting!)

Post by Chuquita » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:32 pm

Re: Time of day

It might just be a morning person/night person thing, but I never enjoyed having to wake up early on Saturday for a new episode of a cartoon the way I enjoyed a new episode that aired on a weekday at like...5pm or 8pm. That said I'm glad DB's current timeslot (if it does eventually get it back) is in the morning because in my timezone that's already evening. If it aired in the evening I'd never get to see it live.

Re: New characters

Probably? I'd wait to see what's on the movie poster as that spoilered the main antagonist for the other recent DB movies.

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I am really impressed with how many risks they're taking though; I mean it's been 3 years since we've had major DB content and the first things they show us are Pan (who isn't that high up on a lot of fans' lists, but I like her in EoZ so I think I'll like her here), Piccolo & his house, Krillin, and some Cyborg 009-inspired guys. To be a fly on the wall in the office where they decided that these were going to be the character sheets they'd choose to show first instead of say Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, or teenage Trunks & Goten. As bored as I've been with the manga, this is a polar opposite in that it's not catering to the generalization of what marketing thinks the fans want and that alone has me curious as it would've been really easy to just do a Cooler or Janemba or Bebi movie instead and I think their names alone would mitigate the unease of cgi. I just hope the cgi isn't horrible as it'd be a shame if when the Great Saiyafamily finally gets their own movie they end up having it rendered like a videogame on old hardware.
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