Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[ZeroNeonix]

I hear Pan was significantly less annoying in the original Japanese version of the show. The English dub just failed in the execution.

[Kinokima]

How Pan was written in GT has absolutely no bearing on how Pan will be written here.

[Kagari]

I hear Pan was significantly less annoying in the original Japanese version of the show. The English dub just failed in the execution.

Still plenty annoying in Japanese.

[Trouser]

I hear Pan was significantly less annoying in the original Japanese version of the show. The English dub just failed in the execution.

It's true. I really like Pan in GT. She's ideal mix of Gohan and Videl characters. Well, you know... original Videl, not that walking, empty corpse from Super.
The dynamic between Goku, Trunks and Pan in japanese version is also very nice.

[precita]

The Pan GT hatred is that she's basically a "Scrappy Doo" expy, in the newly added kid sidekick character that detracted more than they added. All shows add characters like this over time, sometimes they work (arguably kid Gohan in DBZ), and other times they don't.

Also I imagine back then seeing a female character fight rubbed people the wrong way, they just wanted to see SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta fight.

[DiscountDabi]

Ok here is a concept. The new character is on earth parading around as a super hero of earth and shit, while Kinda pulling a Mysterio and creating the problems he's saving people from to make him look good.

There was a translation done by Herms where there was a note above the Characters Gun that said "Turn Dial to change Bullet Type." Maybe his special gun and two modes is important to this. Idk just an idea.

[BWri]

Ok here is a concept. The new character is on earth parading around as a super hero of earth and shit, while Kinda pulling a Mysterio and creating the problems he's saving people from to make him look good.

There was a translation done by Herms where there was a note above the Characters Gun that said "Turn Dial to change Bullet Type." Maybe his special gun and two modes is important to this. Idk just an idea.

The gun/laser dial is a direct reference from Cyborg 009. They can change their blasters to various functions: laser beam, needle gun, stun ray, etc. I think it's called a Super Gun. Toriyama-san must have binged some Cyborg 009, Tokusatsu, and Sentai recently. Dipping into the ol' childhood.

[Xeogran]

Pan is infamous for being an atrocious character in GT. She's a candidate for the worst character in the franchise. There's not anyone I can think of that's worse than her.

Really? A helpful girl who helped Goku achieve SS4, helped defeat some sub-villains (Lord Luud, Rildo's army) and brought something new to the table by having a different personality? All this hatred just because she acts pretty true to her age? It's sad.

I really hate reading this over and over again by people. It's so boring. Some act llike she physically hurt you, despite being a fictional character.

Toriyama enjoyed the GT series and most likely her involvement too.

The Pan GT hatred is that she's basically a "Scrappy Doo" expy, in the newly added kid sidekick character that detracted more than they added.

IMO she added plenty. We never had a female Saiyan fighter in the lead back then, and seeing her get experience and mature through the series was something fresh.

[PurestEvil]

You people are seriously worrying Pan will have the attitude of GT Pan?
This takes place BEFORE Goku leaves to fight Oob. She will be written like how she was in EoZ full stop.

[DiscountDabi]

You people are seriously worrying Pan will have the attitude of GT Pan?
This takes place BEFORE Goku leaves to fight Oob. She will be written like how she was in EoZ full stop.

Not to mention GT...isn't cannon...

Like this is such an Odd conscern to me.

[SupremeKai25]

GT Pan was obnoxious and stupid because Toei was writing her, Toei can write very good characters (see anime Goku Black) or very bad characters (most of GT characters). But here Pan would be written by Toriyama so there's nothing to worry about.

[emperior]

I have trust in Toriyama’s writing of Pan. When he has the urge to use unexpected characters like he did with 17, he does a great job. Considering how this time around the movie seemingly came from Toriyama’s own ideas with no editorial suggestion, he might have been inspired to write a nice story and they are already hyping it up a lot.

For all the hype Broly got, I never remembered it being hyped as Toriyama’s best story yet. Of course they said it was going to be good and all, but this time around they have really explicitly raised expectations regarding the story.

Couple it with the fact that modern Toriyama excels at lower stakes slice-of-lifey stories, and there’s plenty to be excited for. The theme is also cool, SUPER HERO was the most unexpected theme for a DB movie written by Toriyama and I really hope it will finally show everyone the truth about Goku not really being a hero. Too many casual fans are still convinced about it, most likely due to Funimation’s dub but also due to the old Toei movies.

[Peach]

The problem is if Goku/Vegeta fight in the movie it wouldn't make sense for them not to use their new forms they got in the manga since this movie takes place after. And we know Toei won't debut those new forms in this movie since it'll confuse people who don't follow the manga. So the only alternative is either Goku/Vegeta don't fight in this movie, or we just don't see anything beyond Super Saiyan Blue.

To hell with the new forms.

Super Saiyan Blue is tacky looking enough. Vegeta's new destroyer form looks awful. And Goku's Ultra Instinct seriously messes with my vertigo with all those auras. I would have zero issues with them moving away from all three of these forms.

I would be totally fine with Goku and Vegeta challenging themselves in their base forms like the Frieza movie. Only occasionally being pushed to Super Saiyan 1-3. The Super Saiyan God powers being absorbed into their regular forms in Battle of Gods was a damn good idea and i don't know why they slapped a bunch of BS on it to begin with.

Prioritizing new transformations over actual martial arts and a fun story is exactly what's wrong with this franchise at the moment.

[Lord Beerus]

I still can't get over how stupid the title of the movie is. This is one of the occasions where I would have the DBS brand to have been dropped because saying the title of the movie just sounds weird as fuck. It's gotta be the worst title a Dragon Ball movie has ever gotten and that is really saying something.

[Gt91]

Oh i forgot .... no Nappa as main antagonist! (for now)

[Magnificent Ponta]

So, some scattered thoughts on the panel and reveals:

• I'm fine with the CGI in principle; despite a lot of people talking about Broly's artistic choices by way of contrast, that film had plenty of CGI even in the character fighting depictions, particularly in the second half of the film. Toriyama has been interested in cel-shading in animation since at least 15 years ago (the note that it would better preserve a "manga quality" is interesting, given the small design shifts aligning characters with their manga look, along with the assertions that Toriyama is apparently more invested in this film than the previous ones - y'know, assuming that's actually true, and not just standard hype talk), so it's not surprising to see a film where it takes these principles at full run. I'm down for it, if it can provide a consistently high-quality output for the whole film. But it seems it has a bit further to go - it may be whatever the programmed lighting was around Goku's model, but the shading doesn't always look quite right on the clothing, so it looks a little 'unnatural' (someone mentioned that a couple pages back - I agree), and the frames seemed a tad choppy. Hopefully they can push things a little further in the production time that's left to give a well-polished product, but at this stage, CGI is certainly not a turn-off for me.
• I enjoyed the character designs generally - others have noted the Cyborg009 inspirations in the new character clothing and weapons - I also wanted to note that I think I see a sort of Ultraman inspiration in 1's head design. If so, that's a couple of classic Toriyama inspirations, returning to the usual watering-holes from his younger days - entirely to be expected, and fitting for something that probably looks to evoke the kookiness that usually comes with the retro-futurism of 20th Century sci-fi. I could be well off-base, but the character seems to have a similar basic 'tone' to Jaco, to me.
• I like the general 'Piccolo's house' scenery - it would be a cute nod if his house were at Yunzabit.
• I share the sense from others that this will be an altogether less 'high-octane' offering than Broly, but I'm happy for Super to give us some more playful stuff, with a less intense tone; the early arcs were starting to threaten becoming a tonal outlier for me, so it would be nice to mix things back up that way. However, given the absence of a name draw like Broly and the implications of a lighter tone, I don't expect it to do quite so well.

[PurestEvil]

Toriyama interested in cell shading?
Let’s hope it will be the perfect form instead of semi-perfect

[JulieYBM]

GT Pan was obnoxious and stupid because Toei was writing her, Toei can write very good characters (see anime Goku Black) or very bad characters (most of GT characters). But here Pan would be written by Toriyama so there's nothing to worry about.

Toriyama is a historically shitty writer when it comes to women, so I am sleeping with one eye opened on that front.

[SupremeKai25]

GT Pan was obnoxious and stupid because Toei was writing her, Toei can write very good characters (see anime Goku Black) or very bad characters (most of GT characters). But here Pan would be written by Toriyama so there's nothing to worry about.

Toriyama is a historically shitty writer when it comes to women, so I am sleeping with one eye opened on that front.

I mean, he at least gave the 3 U6 Saiyan girls (Caulifla, Kale, and Kefla) the Super Saiyan forms, thus making them relevant in fights, which is something GT never bothered to do with Pan. He also designed Android 21 who is the villain of a videogame. Then he also created the Angels, many of which are women and are at the top of the power-scale, only below Zeno and the Grand Priest. For example Vados could oneshot everyone in the main cast, etc. Who was the strongest female characters before the Super revival? Android 18? West Supreme Kai?

[JulieYBM]

GT Pan was obnoxious and stupid because Toei was writing her, Toei can write very good characters (see anime Goku Black) or very bad characters (most of GT characters). But here Pan would be written by Toriyama so there's nothing to worry about.

Toriyama is a historically shitty writer when it comes to women, so I am sleeping with one eye opened on that front.

I mean, he at least gave the 3 U6 Saiyan girls (Caulifla, Kale, and Kefla) the Super Saiyan forms, thus making them relevant in fights, which is something GT never bothered to do with Pan. He also designed Android 21 who is the villain of a videogame. Then he also created the Angels, many of which are women and are at the top of the power-scale, only below Zeno and the Grand Priest. For example Vados could oneshot everyone in the main cast, etc. Who was the strongest female characters before the Super revival? Android 18? West Supreme Kai?

The Angels don't do anything and the Saiyan girls likely have SS forms thanks to Nagamine and all (or Bandai) wanting them for their uses. Even then it isn't like he has actually written them.

At least Toei gave use Pan written by a (supposed) woman (even if while under the thumb of a certain shithead) and then later some men who wanted to try to write Kale and Caulifla well.