Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Zelvin » Sun May 22, 2022 7:25 pm

omaro34 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:22 pm This movie is merely weeks away after the first delay, and it just feels underwhelming.

I couldn’t be happier that Piccolo is playing a larger role, but the fact that the marketing of this film has been subpar at best when compared to Broly gives me cause to pause.
If you think back though, Piccolo has been a big part of the movies for a long time.

Dead Zone: Is seemingly killed at the start, comes back by mid-point to take revenge on Garlic Jr. and his crew and teams up with Goku to defeat Garlic Jr.
World's Strongest: Piccolo is captured at the start after saving Gohan, is controlled to fight Goku before control is broken and joins with the team to stop Dr. Wheelo. And to make sure Gohan doesn't get killed.
Tree of Might: Shows up to save Gohan from Turles, but doesn't do so well and is basically benched for the movie.
Lord Slug: Spends time with Gohan. Is used to showcase a Namekian's weakness. Saves Gohan again and helps take out the mooks, and saves Goku by transferring his energy and giving Goku the power to defeat the Giant Super Namekian.
Cooler's Revenge: Piccolo again comes in to save Gohan and take out the mooks before being benched by Cooler til the end of the movie, where he saves the exhausted from from Salza.
Return of Cooler: Piccolo arrives to basically just protect Gohan and the Namekians and spends most of the time taking out the NPC's and saving everyone while Goku and Vegeta deal with Meta- Cooler.
Super Android 13: Again Piccolo enters the scene to save Gohan and then basically just distract Super 13 until Goku can get the win.
Legendary Super Saiyan: Once more Piccolo arrives to save Gohan, heals the group and helps fight the Legendary Saiyan. Give his energy to Goku along with everyone else to save the day.
Bojack Unbound: Again we have Piccolo showing up to save Gohan from the cronies before getting benched by Bojack.
Broly 2nd Coming: Piccolo doesn't actually appear, so there's one Z movie he's not in.
Bio-Broly: No Piccolo again. Then again no Gohan either...
Fusion Reborn: I honestly don't remember if Piccolo even appeared in it.
Wrath of the Dragon: I think Piccolo just gets beaten by Hildegarn like everyone else and that's it.
Battle of Gods: Benched by Beerus like everyone else.
Resurrection of F: Helps the team by fighting the cronies. Gets knocked down by random mook. Saves Gohan's life after Freeza stops his heart.
Super Broly: Piccolo is relegated to team Coach.

For most of the movies, Piccolo protects and saves Gohan and assists the Z-fighters. It's at the time of Broly 2nd Coming where Piccolo's role and appearances get largely reduced. But he's still been a staple of the series for a long, long time. However the more characters you introduce, the more you have to cut for time. Frankly Piccolo gets more appearances in the films than anyone who isn't a Saiyan or Krillin.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 22, 2022 7:29 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:06 pm Guys, something tells me this movie is gonna be between 60 and 120 minutes long. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch, but I could feel it happening. /s
It'll likely be 69 minutes. That seems to be the sweet spot.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun May 22, 2022 8:14 pm

Zelvin wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:25 pm Broly 2nd Coming: Piccolo doesn't actually appear, so there's one Z movie he's not in.
Bio-Broly: No Piccolo again. Then again no Gohan either...
Fusion Reborn: I honestly don't remember if Piccolo even appeared in it.
Wrath of the Dragon: I think Piccolo just gets beaten by Hildegarn like everyone else and that's it.
Piccolo actually doesn't appear in any of these movies. The Bojack movie was his final appearance in an OG DBZ movie.

Basically he didn't appear in any movies that were made around the Buu Saga, which kinda makes sense given that the Buu Saga was when he started to become less relevant than before.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by kemuri07 » Sun May 22, 2022 8:18 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:29 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:06 pm Guys, something tells me this movie is gonna be between 60 and 120 minutes long. I could be wrong, it's just a hunch, but I could feel it happening. /s
It'll likely be 69 minutes. That seems to be the sweet spot.
nice 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Sun May 22, 2022 8:50 pm

dragonball0900 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:14 pm Basically he didn't appear in any movies that were made around the Buu Saga, which kinda makes sense given that the Buu Saga was when he started to become less relevant than before.
I'd actually contend that Piccolo is one of the most relevant secondary characters in the Boo arc, despite not having much of a fighting role.

That's why I'm sitting here baffled that his last appearance in the old Z movies really is Bojack Unbound. I'd completely forgotten about that. Man, that's wild.

Pretty excited to see what he has to offer in this film.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by WittyUsername » Sun May 22, 2022 11:59 pm

I get the impression that the reason Piccolo stopped appearing in the OG movies after Movie 9 is because Toei realized how repetitive his whole shtick in the movies was, and they weren’t sure what else to do with him. Funnily enough, Vegeta in Movie 13 basically assumes the Piccolo role, right down to saving Gohan specifically.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Mon May 23, 2022 9:01 am

The tools they are using are great based on that livestream seminar Graphinica had. They are actually using Maya (Although why use Unreal Engine at all for rendering when you have Maya which has be certified for movie production). The problem why the film still looks like shit and will continue to look like utter shit no matter how many fake delays excuses Toei gives is simply the talent is godawful. Having a no name like Tetsuro Kodama as a director on this film is like having a line cook who is masquerading as a Michelin star chef while being presented some of the most expensive/exotic ingredients known to man and ultimately produces a grilled cheese sandwich with a spoiled banana sticking out the sides & actually having the gall to think you made a dish that’s the crème de la crème.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Mon May 23, 2022 9:23 am

omaro34 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:22 pm This movie is merely weeks away after the first delay, and it just feels underwhelming.

I couldn’t be happier that Piccolo is playing a larger role, but the fact that the marketing of this film has been subpar at best when compared to Broly gives me cause to pause.
The crappy marketing is surprisingly low on the totem pole of why this is whole thing is underwhelming. We need to ask ourselves honestly is this a story that really needed to be told? like one that the fandom was begging for ages to hear? "Gohans back for the 366th time!" Dead Zone 2.0? NO! . Its pointless,lazy, content designed to be consumed like a big mac and be forgotten 3 secs later.

and why market when you have a series where people will just mindlessly consume because its DRAGONBALL that's precisely what this franchise has become now just content for content's sake it does nothing, it says nothing, and it means nothing because ultimately....it is nothing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Majin Buu » Mon May 23, 2022 9:41 am

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:23 am The crappy marketing is surprisingly low on the totem pole of why this is whole thing is underwhelming. We need to ask ourselves honestly is this a story that really needed to be told? like one that the fandom was begging for ages to hear?
The bolded part is pretty ironic considering that (on paper) this is more or less what Gohan fans have been saying the Buu arc should have been for years now: A Dragon Ball story with Gohan as the main character and hero (with Goku seemingly out of the picture) written under Toriyama's pen. All that's missing is the long-form manga/anime format and a large scale threat (AFAWK).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by kemuri07 » Mon May 23, 2022 9:53 am

again, and I shall repeat myself, some of you are fucking crazy.

Like seriously, some of you acting as if "Super Hero" is below the standards of quality for Dragon Ball are onsome real weird shit, when you consider the bulk of DBZ movies. Even Super: Broly, for as fun as it is, is 90 minutes of dudes whomping on each other. It's not great, it's just fanservice or "content for the sake of content." It's fun...but that's all it is. I expect the same for Super Hero.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jinto » Mon May 23, 2022 9:55 am

ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:01 am The tools they are using are great based on that livestream seminar Graphinica had. They are actually using Maya 3DS max (Although why use Unreal Engine at all for rendering when you have Maya which has be certified for movie production). The problem why the film still looks like shit and will continue to look like utter shit no matter how many fake delays excuses Toei gives is simply the talent is godawful. Having a no name like Tetsuro Kodama as a director on this film is like having a line cook who is masquerading as a Michelin star chef while being presented some of the most expensive/exotic ingredients known to man and ultimately produces a grilled cheese sandwich with a spoiled banana sticking out the sides & actually having the gall to thinking you made a dish that’s the crème de la crème.
So... The shadowless animation we got in the trailer is the finished shot or there is a chance they will polish it ?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by VegettoEX » Mon May 23, 2022 9:56 am

kemuri07 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:53 am again, and I shall repeat myself, some of you are fucking crazy.
This is not a worthwhile post, and a strike is being issued against your account. This strike is being publicly acknowledged as a further warning for those looking to be dismissive and disruptive, particularly in such an important and active thread as this.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Zelvin » Mon May 23, 2022 10:23 am

My point of going over the previous movies was basically to show how Piccolo has had a large presence in them for a very long time. Moreso than almost anyone else. So the whole "Oh look, we got Piccolo!" doesn't come off as intriguing or surprising. Especially when you consider Gohan is the focus of the story. In which case Piccolo's presence is just expected since the two are intrinsically linked as not only Master and Student, but friends. You could even say Piccolo is Pan's godfather.

It's already been said, but repeating Gohan reviving his "Ultimate" power is just poor writing. He went from wanting to keep up both his studies and training following the ToP and the events of the Moro Arc in the manga, to...just being a family man again and eschewing all his training again. Just like what happened following the Buu arc and what happened after the Cell Games. We've already done this character arc for him before. And this continues to be a problem with the series at large. Where they just reset character development to retell the same story beats and lessons again instead of just trying to grow the story forward naturally.

But again, as we've seen, they keep coming back to the same dry well for ideas they've already used. And are digging through the bedrock at the bottom to see if there's anything they haven't already reused to death. And what we got was a mish-mash of elements from previous DBZ movies. Which is just another reason why I can't find any interest in the movie. It's ultimately filler that rehashes the same points as previous works. It may be nice to see Pan, but that's it. Ultimately all I can suggest is to wait for the movie to come out on sale at some point if you're really interested.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr_CINDER » Mon May 23, 2022 10:29 am

Zelvin wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:23 am My point of going over the previous movies was basically to show how Piccolo has had a large presence in them for a very long time. Moreso than almost anyone else. So the whole "Oh look, we got Piccolo!" doesn't come off as intriguing or surprising. Especially when you consider Gohan is the focus of the story. In which case Piccolo's presence is just expected since the two are intrinsically linked as not only Master and Student, but friends. You could even say Piccolo is Pan's godfather.

It's already been said, but repeating Gohan reviving his "Ultimate" power is just poor writing. He went from wanting to keep up both his studies and training following the ToP and the events of the Moro Arc in the manga, to...just being a family man again and eschewing all his training again. Just like what happened following the Buu arc and what happened after the Cell Games. We've already done this character arc for him before. And this continues to be a problem with the series at large. Where they just reset character development to retell the same story beats and lessons again instead of just trying to grow the story forward naturally.

But again, as we've seen, they keep coming back to the same dry well for ideas they've already used. And are digging through the bedrock at the bottom to see if there's anything they haven't already reused to death. And what we got was a mish-mash of elements from previous DBZ movies. Which is just another reason why I can't find any interest in the movie. It's ultimately filler that rehashes the same points as previous works. It may be nice to see Pan, but that's it. Ultimately all I can suggest is to wait for the movie to come out on sale at some point if you're really interested.
Or it could be Goku, Vegeta, Broly and Gohan will be facing the ultimate villain, because all the hints in the trailer suggested gamma 1 and 2 are not the final villain.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 23, 2022 10:41 am

Can we expect a morally grey villain from this movie, or will Zamasu remain the only villain in DBS who is not evil for the sake of being evil?

It's sad how Toriyama seems to have regressed back to these villains who are just pure evil, like Moro, Gas, and Elec. They are so boring!

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 23, 2022 10:46 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:41 am Can we expect a morally grey villain from this movie, or will Zamasu remain the only villain in DBS who is not evil for the sake of being evil?

It's sad how Toriyama seems to have regressed back to these villains who are just pure evil, like Moro, Gas, and Elec. They are so boring!
There's nothing morally grey about committing genocide.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 23, 2022 10:54 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:46 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:41 am Can we expect a morally grey villain from this movie, or will Zamasu remain the only villain in DBS who is not evil for the sake of being evil?

It's sad how Toriyama seems to have regressed back to these villains who are just pure evil, like Moro, Gas, and Elec. They are so boring!
There's nothing morally grey about committing genocide.
No, but when someone has a more complex motivation than just "rawr I'm evil so I'm going to kill everyone", it's fun to talk about it.

We can't talk about the motivations of the old DBZ movie villains because they are all generic pure evil monsters.

The reason why New Broly became so popular is because he wasn't just a generic evil brute like his DBZ counterpart. People liked that Toriyama gave more depth to this antagonist, who originally had none.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon May 23, 2022 10:58 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:41 am Can we expect a morally grey villain from this movie, or will Zamasu remain the only villain in DBS who is not evil for the sake of being evil?

It's sad how Toriyama seems to have regressed back to these villains who are just pure evil, like Moro, Gas, and Elec. They are so boring!
I mean, the two Gamma androids really don't seem evil to me. Villains don't typically refer to themselves as super heroes, unless it's the show "The Boys" you're talking about. I think they've been mislead, and they may team up against the true villain who is released near the end of the movie. Same goes for their creator. I think he's been lied to by Red Ribbon, and he really believes he created the Gamma androids as super heroes to battle the evil Z Fighters.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 23, 2022 11:00 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:54 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:46 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:41 am Can we expect a morally grey villain from this movie, or will Zamasu remain the only villain in DBS who is not evil for the sake of being evil?

It's sad how Toriyama seems to have regressed back to these villains who are just pure evil, like Moro, Gas, and Elec. They are so boring!
There's nothing morally grey about committing genocide.
No, but when someone has a more complex motivation than just "rawr I'm evil so I'm going to kill everyone", it's fun to talk about it.

We can't talk about the motivations of the old DBZ movie villains because they are all generic pure evil monsters.

The reason why New Broly became so popular is because he wasn't just a generic evil brute like his DBZ counterpart. People liked that Toriyama gave more depth to this antagonist, who originally had none.
My only point was that Zamasu is not morally grey. That is the only argument I was making.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Mon May 23, 2022 11:13 am

Jinto wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:55 am
ObnoxiousNamek wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:01 am The tools they are using are great based on that livestream seminar Graphinica had. They are actually using Maya 3DS max (Although why use Unreal Engine at all for rendering when you have Maya which has be certified for movie production). The problem why the film still looks like shit and will continue to look like utter shit no matter how many fake delays excuses Toei gives is simply the talent is godawful. Having a no name like Tetsuro Kodama as a director on this film is like having a line cook who is masquerading as a Michelin star chef while being presented some of the most expensive/exotic ingredients known to man and ultimately produces a grilled cheese sandwich with a spoiled banana sticking out the sides & actually having the gall to thinking you made a dish that’s the crème de la crème.
So... The shadowless animation we got in the trailer is the finished shot or there is a chance they will polish it ?
Not sure tbh i highly doubt this will get polished or imporved on what you see is what you get. We have to remember this is Toei Animation not Disney. You'd have a better chance of wearing an all raw-meat jacket while walking a hungry lion on a leash than to hope Toei would ever put legitimate effort into a Dragonball product these days.

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