Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Wed May 26, 2021 10:35 am

Skar wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:26 pm
HeroR wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:48 amFrom my understanding, it's more that the Super manga isn't that popular (this isn't to say that it isn't popular, but it doesn't break records either). Most Dragon Ball fans in Japan sees it as Toyo's Dragon Ball. Also not helping that the manga gets almost next to no exposure so a lot of fans even in Japan actually don't even know that manga version of Super exists.
Does this have to do with something specific to the DBS manga or due to the nature of V-Jump and the kind of stories it's intended for? It wasn't moved to a different magazine due to declining sales and it began on one that doesn't sell that well. I recall it's one of the best selling or the best selling manga on V-Jump though. I'm not sure if any completed manga series had a spin-off or sequel by a different artist that sold more. On this list, the DBS manga is ranked #38 and I'm pretty sure the ones that outsold it were original stories.

Image
First, thanks for this. I was looking for this chart and I couldn't find it.

As for specifics, it's a little bit of both I believe. As you can see, Dragon Ball Super is more popular than Boruto, but I'm not sure how much that says since I've heard mixed things about Boruto's popularity. However, Dragon Ball Super never sold gangbusters because it's seen as Toyo's take on Dragon Ball, it's in V-Jump that sell way less than Shonan Jump so it's missing a lot of exposer, older Dragon Ball fans in Japan aren't the biggest fans of anything past Namek, and the lack of exposer keeps a lot of new readers from finding it. Which is why the Dragon Ball Super anime caused Dragon Ball to have a newbie boom, while the manga was seen as a companion project.

Also, spin-offs or sequels of a successful manga are actually extremely rare in Japan. Like Boruto and Fist of the Blue Sky (done by the original author, but is prequel to Fist of the North Star) are not common and Dragon Ball Super is done decades after the original manga run. So there is no perfect comparison. I will say for being in a smaller magazine and a spinoff it does very well, but it has declined from its peak and the lack of advisement it gets doesn't helps.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by Skar » Wed May 26, 2021 1:15 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:35 amAlso, spin-offs or sequels of a successful manga are actually extremely rare in Japan. Like Boruto and Fist of the Blue Sky (done by the original author, but is prequel to Fist of the North Star) are not common and Dragon Ball Super is done decades after the original manga run. So there is no perfect comparison. I will say for being in a smaller magazine and a spinoff it does very well, but it has declined from its peak and the lack of advisement it gets doesn't helps.
That makes sense. I think it's impressive that it might be the best selling in it's category of a spin-off/sequel of a completed manga. More exposure and advertising could help but I'm not sure it could ever come close to a new successful manga series like those in the top 10. Boruto had more sales in the beginning than DBS but suffered a much bigger decline. The author said he hoped to reach 30 volumes but that might not be possible if the sales continue like this.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by VegettoEX » Wed May 26, 2021 3:20 pm

Just want to press you on this: what is the basis for your claim that older Japanese fans don’t care for anything post-Namek? That doesn’t seem like something you should toss around without some sort of underlying, legitimate... uhh, facts!

Please be careful not to present speculation as fact, particularly alongside ACTUAL facts (like sales figures), where it could easily be construed as such.
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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Wed May 26, 2021 3:38 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:20 pm Just want to press you on this: what is the basis for your claim that older Japanese fans don’t care for anything post-Namek? That doesn’t seem like something you should toss around without some sort of underlying, legitimate... uhh, facts!

Please be careful not to present speculation as fact, particularly alongside ACTUAL facts (like sales figures), where it could easily be construed as such.
It isn’t speculation. This was said more or less by people who lived in Japan and can read Japanese forums. I also didn’t say they didn’t care. So much, everything post-Namek isn’t as beloved. You can see it like how Cell isn’t as popular in Japan vs overseas. Also seen by base Goku and Vegeta being far more popular in Japan than overseas. Which was why they’re in FighterZ as DLC. You even see this in Kakarot where they gave lovely CGI cut scenes of Tien losing his arm to Nappa and Goku one-shotting Recoome, yet they have no cut scene, or even showed, Vegeta’s Final Flash or Grade 3 Super Saiyan Trunks. Buu Saga also had a lack of cut scenes. So you can see where the budget went.
Last edited by HeroR on Wed May 26, 2021 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Wed May 26, 2021 3:43 pm

Skar wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 1:15 pm
HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:35 amAlso, spin-offs or sequels of a successful manga are actually extremely rare in Japan. Like Boruto and Fist of the Blue Sky (done by the original author, but is prequel to Fist of the North Star) are not common and Dragon Ball Super is done decades after the original manga run. So there is no perfect comparison. I will say for being in a smaller magazine and a spinoff it does very well, but it has declined from its peak and the lack of advisement it gets doesn't helps.
That makes sense. I think it's impressive that it might be the best selling in it's category of a spin-off/sequel of a completed manga. More exposure and advertising could help but I'm not sure it could ever come close to a new successful manga series like those in the top 10. Boruto had more sales in the beginning than DBS but suffered a much bigger decline. The author said he hoped to reach 30 volumes but that might not be possible if the sales continue like this.

Image
Boruto had the benefit of coming out right after the Naruto manga finish. So it would hit a highest peak along with better advisement. It also declined more steeply because Naruto as a property has also decrease along with other issues. However, Dragon Ball has only gotten stronger even after the anime ended, but the manga went down. Which is something to note.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by VegettoEX » Wed May 26, 2021 4:01 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:38 pm It isn’t speculation. This was said more or less by people who lived in Japan and can read Japanese forums. I also didn’t say they didn’t care. So much, everything post-Namek isn’t as beloved. You can see it like how Cell isn’t as popular in Japan vs overseas. Also seen by base Goku and Vegeta being far more popular in Japan than overseas. Which was why they’re in FighterZ as DLC.
With all due respect, this is all very tenuous-at-best extrapolation.

You could and likely would get some wildly different impressions by looking at miscellaneous posts across time and location and deeper, nuanced subject matter. Imagine trying to qualify something by reading posts here, and reading impressions of the same material on, say, Instagram communities. Which is “right” and representative of the “truth”...? Fact is, both would be.

So with regard to the Japanese fandom analysis, over what period of time were these reviewed? From what variety of sources?

I frequently see these Cell popularity points presented as if they’re fact, and every time I press on it, there’s nothing underneath. Can you share where you’re pulling this data from? How is this being qualified? Are there statements from production staff backing this up? If so, what’s their basis for saying so?

Can you also share data for popularity of base forms in respective territories? Are there DLC sale data points that back this up?

It’s OK to speculate and make inferences. Again, just be sure to state what they are, to not misrepresent opinions and such as fact, and to not fall into the trap of assuming cursory personal analysis is likewise fact.

We’re all working toward a common goal here: a better, clearer understanding!
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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Wed May 26, 2021 4:28 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:01 pm
HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:38 pm It isn’t speculation. This was said more or less by people who lived in Japan and can read Japanese forums. I also didn’t say they didn’t care. So much, everything post-Namek isn’t as beloved. You can see it like how Cell isn’t as popular in Japan vs overseas. Also seen by base Goku and Vegeta being far more popular in Japan than overseas. Which was why they’re in FighterZ as DLC.
With all due respect, this is all very tenuous-at-best extrapolation.

You could and likely would get some wildly different impressions by looking at miscellaneous posts across time and location and deeper, nuanced subject matter. Imagine trying to qualify something by reading posts here, and reading impressions of the same material on, say, Instagram communities. Which is “right” and representative of the “truth”...? Fact is, both would be.

So with regard to the Japanese fandom analysis, over what period of time were these reviewed? From what variety of sources?

I frequently see these Cell popularity points presented as if they’re fact, and every time I press on it, there’s nothing underneath. Can you share where you’re pulling this data from? How is this being qualified? Are there statements from production staff backing this up? If so, what’s their basis for saying so?

Can you also share data for popularity of base forms in respective territories? Are there DLC sale data points that back this up?

It’s OK to speculate and make inferences. Again, just be sure to state what they are, to not misrepresent opinions and such as fact, and to not fall into the trap of assuming cursory personal analysis is likewise fact.

We’re all working toward a common goal here: a better, clearer understanding!
I get my information mostly from Dragon Ball fans who are heavily involved in Dokkan, Legends, and a little bit of FighterZ. Also, follow merch sells on the side.

There have been polls taking about Cell's popularity in Japan: https://dragonballworld.fandom.com/wiki ... rity_Polls

The first polls taking in Weekly Shonen Jump 1993 Issue No. 12 with Chapter 411 has Cell as #8. The next poll taking in Weekly Shonen Jump 1995 Issue No. 05/06 with Chapter 501 doesn't have Cell break the Top 10, but Frieza does. And probably the most used poll, the Dragon Ball Forever poll, has Cell at #14, behind every other major Z villain.

The most recent official poll we have is the V-Jump poll taking back in 2018: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Popularity_Polls

Cell is #8, below every Z villain and even antagonists from Super like Jiren, Hit, and Black. So while Cell is popular enough since he does break the top 20s, he isn't in the same league as the other Z villains and going by merch sells along with what is happening in Dokkan and Legends, Black is probably more popular than him too and the polls also supports this. To give another example looking at Legends: Frieza, Buu, Super Broly, Black, and Beerus all got a LF units (the hardest unit to get in the game), while Cell still doesn't have one, although he was the first revived unit.

I mean, it's fine if you don't take what I've heard as fact. I have no reason to believe that the people I talk to are lying and there is evidence to back what they're saying, especially Cell's popularity. The Kakarot game is probably the most telling since you can see the production different between the Saiyan and Namek Saga vs Cell and Buu Saga. Like, they literally skipped the Final Flash.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by Kinokima » Wed May 26, 2021 6:24 pm

If of you are going by Dokkan most of the stuff they do is from Cell, Buu, and Super.

I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that Freeza for example is a more popular villain than Cell but that doesn’t necessarily mean the early sagas are more popular overall. I would even argue it’s hard to judge by this because it seems it’s not necessarily the saga as a whole but certain elements from each saga that fans love.

Like Cell may be less popular but SSJ2 Gohan is super popular or anything with the Goku/Gohan KMH

And in terms of the Buu arc anything involving fusion, SSJ3 Goku, or Majin Vegeta also does really well.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by Cipher » Wed May 26, 2021 8:29 pm

Re: Sales stuff above: That's not divergent from my earlier points about what kind of series Super is. It's a follow-up work to a finished series that had its day helmed by someone other than the original artist. By all accounts its volumes seem to sell quite well for a V-Jump title, but the natural cap for those titles is lower than what a new, mainline magazine title might see.

They aren't going to invest four times the resources into it, in a way that's off-putting for readers, to cannibalize space that could go toward a new success in a premier weekly space.

It's the kind of series they want in their monthly promotional/sequel/gaming spin-off, for many reasons, and so--it is monthly.
HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:43 pmHowever, Dragon Ball has only gotten stronger even after the anime ended, but the manga went down. Which is something to note.
The anime ending is something that's going to have a higher influence on a manga than on mobile games, no matter how you slice it. V-Jump titles are already niche, so when you don't have more accessible media pointing people toward them, you'll inevitably see a drop-off. The fact that the Moro arc has no presence in other media of any kind (games, etc.) is also going to mean a drop-off in sales for those volumes. But obviously everything with the greater franchise is going smoothly enough for them to not feel like they need to rock the boat right now. It might be that they're saving promotion of the new manga arcs for an anime adaptation, it might be that they're okay just letting it do its own thing and peter off, without trying to alienate less-invested fans by bringing manga-specific characters into other media (so, treating it like the Yu-Gi-Oh sequels whose alternate-story manga ran on a few years after their respective anime ended and were never really adapted into anything)--who knows.

But again that all speaks to the broader point of Super being a series whose interest cap is naturally limited. Content-wise, much as I enjoy it personally, I don't think there's any arguing that it isn't somewhat electively restricted to just invested DB fans who want to see more DB. But even with a different approach to its stories, unless Toriyama came back in to helm it, it isn't going to have the kind of draw power that would warrant trying to move it weekly (and rotating artists simply isn't done; the first series to try a brand-new commercial strategy for weekly manga isn't going to be a sequel series of all things).

It (along with V-Jump follow-ups generally) is the direct-to-DVD sequel of comics. Lower cost investment, lower interest cap, but it'll make its returns and do what it needs to do to keep a pillar of a franchise alive and entertain invested fans. That just ... it is what it is. I enjoy it and I will happily recommend it to fans who want more, but you have to recognize what its role in the larger media ecosystem is.

That all said, if I can add one thing anecdotally for Super's success within its more limited scope though, living in Japan:

New Super volumes often receive highlighting/displays at bookstores, and that has continued even after the anime ended, which is not something you often (ever?) see for V-Jump titles. It's probably the most successful title in its magazine (?), but it's a smaller pond and it still doesn't make sense to try to move it out of it.
Last edited by Cipher on Wed May 26, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by Kinokima » Wed May 26, 2021 8:44 pm

Actually the Mobile Game sales have gone down since the anime ended too. Not saying Dokkan for example is doing badly but you don’t see the Japanese or Global version hitting top grossing as often as when there was an ongoing anime
Merchandise sales have gone down too.

So while Dragon Ball is still doing extremely well as a franchise it hasn’t gotten “stronger” since the anime ended except the manga.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Wed May 26, 2021 9:35 pm

Kinokima wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:44 pm Actually the Mobile Game sales have gone down since the anime ended too. Not saying Dokkan for example is doing badly but you don’t see the Japanese or Global version hitting top grossing as often as when there was an ongoing anime
Merchandise sales have gone down too.

So while Dragon Ball is still doing extremely well as a franchise it hasn’t gotten “stronger” since the anime ended except the manga.
I think the new movie should renew intrest and hopefully we recieve an announcement for 2023 anime return

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed May 26, 2021 10:57 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:28 pm The Kakarot game is probably the most telling since you can see the production different between the Saiyan and Namek Saga vs Cell and Buu Saga. Like, they literally skipped the Final Flash.
This is completely speculative. There may be several reasons for the difference in quality between some of the arcs adapted by Kakarot, and we simply have no way of knowing (at least, not with a solid foundation).

I can easily make the argument that CC2 may have had a strong start in the game's production, but with the various features that they intended to include in the game and with the limited time and budget that they had, the need to cut corners was getting bigger as they progressed (which coincidentally includes the Cell and Boo saga), but that is also nothing but speculation. The main scenes of the Cell and Boo arcs are among the most beautiful and well made in the game (the entire final fight is almost entirely made up of high-budget cutscenes), so the notion that they focused their budget only on the first two arcs because they're more popular doesn't make a lot of sense (especially when their premise is to deliver the whole Dragon Ball story retold in the best possible way).
Cipher wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:29 pm The anime ending is something that's going to have a higher influence on a manga than on mobile games, no matter how you slice it. V-Jump titles are already niche, so when you don't have more accessible media pointing people toward them, you'll inevitably see a drop-off. The fact that the Moro arc has no presence in other media of any kind (games, etc.) is also going to mean a drop-off in sales for those volumes.
We saw Super Saiyan God Vegeta being introduced to the animation with the Broly movie, anr with the magazines that announced this directly referencing the manga (I would say that even the SSG's return with Goku during the Tournament of Power in the anime was influenced by the manga as well), so I think it's just a matter of them waiting for the best moment to introduce some of these concepts in the media that inevitably receive more attention

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 am

Kinokima wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:24 pm If of you are going by Dokkan most of the stuff they do is from Cell, Buu, and Super.

I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that Freeza for example is a more popular villain than Cell but that doesn’t necessarily mean the early sagas are more popular overall. I would even argue it’s hard to judge by this because it seems it’s not necessarily the saga as a whole but certain elements from each saga that fans love.

Like Cell may be less popular but SSJ2 Gohan is super popular or anything with the Goku/Gohan KMH

And in terms of the Buu arc anything involving fusion, SSJ3 Goku, or Majin Vegeta also does really well.
Certain aspects of those sagas are popular, but the sages themselves are not as beloved in Japan compared to overseas with the Cell Saga being the most standout example.
Cipher wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:29 pm Re: Sales stuff above: That's not divergent from my earlier points about what kind of series Super is. It's a follow-up work to a finished series that had its day helmed by someone other than the original artist. By all accounts its volumes seem to sell quite well for a V-Jump title, but the natural cap for those titles is lower than what a new, mainline magazine title might see.

They aren't going to invest four times the resources into it, in a way that's off-putting for readers, to cannibalize space that could go toward a new success in a premier weekly space.

It's the kind of series they want in their monthly promotional/sequel/gaming spin-off, for many reasons, and so--it is monthly.
HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 3:43 pmHowever, Dragon Ball has only gotten stronger even after the anime ended, but the manga went down. Which is something to note.
The anime ending is something that's going to have a higher influence on a manga than on mobile games, no matter how you slice it. V-Jump titles are already niche, so when you don't have more accessible media pointing people toward them, you'll inevitably see a drop-off. The fact that the Moro arc has no presence in other media of any kind (games, etc.) is also going to mean a drop-off in sales for those volumes. But obviously everything with the greater franchise is going smoothly enough for them to not feel like they need to rock the boat right now. It might be that they're saving promotion of the new manga arcs for an anime adaptation, it might be that they're okay just letting it do its own thing and peter off, without trying to alienate less-invested fans by bringing manga-specific characters into other media (so, treating it like the Yu-Gi-Oh sequels whose alternate-story manga ran on a few years after their respective anime ended and were never really adapted into anything)--who knows.

But again that all speaks to the broader point of Super being a series whose interest cap is naturally limited. Content-wise, much as I enjoy it personally, I don't think there's any arguing that it isn't somewhat electively restricted to just invested DB fans who want to see more DB. But even with a different approach to its stories, unless Toriyama came back in to helm it, it isn't going to have the kind of draw power that would warrant trying to move it weekly (and rotating artists simply isn't done; the first series to try a brand-new commercial strategy for weekly manga isn't going to be a sequel series of all things).

It (along with V-Jump follow-ups generally) is the direct-to-DVD sequel of comics. Lower cost investment, lower interest cap, but it'll make its returns and do what it needs to do to keep a pillar of a franchise alive and entertain invested fans. That just ... it is what it is. I enjoy it and I will happily recommend it to fans who want more, but you have to recognize what its role in the larger media ecosystem is.

That all said, if I can add one thing anecdotally for Super's success within its more limited scope though, living in Japan:

New Super volumes often receive highlighting/displays at bookstores, and that has continued even after the anime ended, which is not something you often (ever?) see for V-Jump titles. It's probably the most successful title in its magazine (?), but it's a smaller pond and it still doesn't make sense to try to move it out of it.
It depends because Dokkan is actually more influence by the original Dragon Ball manga more than the anime outside of the movies for obvious reasons and using the anime color schemes. Like fans who do translations for Dokkan has noted that the quotes used in the game come mostly from the manga compared to the anime and there are several poses or panels that are influence by the manga that is not in the anime. That and the manga in general have stronger influence in Japan.

Thing is, the Dragon Ball Super manga was doing much better until Volume 10 where there is a noticeably dropped in sales and it happened over a year after the anime ended. And I even noted that the lack of the manga not getting advisements outside of the V-Jump sphere isn't helping it because it's mostly aimed for the older fandom and isn't really getting any new blood.

Overall, the Super manga is probably the least successful thing that carries the Super's name.
TheSaiyanGod wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:57 pm
HeroR wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:28 pm The Kakarot game is probably the most telling since you can see the production different between the Saiyan and Namek Saga vs Cell and Buu Saga. Like, they literally skipped the Final Flash.
This is completely speculative. There may be several reasons for the difference in quality between some of the arcs adapted by Kakarot, and we simply have no way of knowing (at least, not with a solid foundation).

I can easily make the argument that CC2 may have had a strong start in the game's production, but with the various features that they intended to include in the game and with the limited time and budget that they had, the need to cut corners was getting bigger as they progressed (which coincidentally includes the Cell and Boo saga), but that is also nothing but speculation. The main scenes of the Cell and Boo arcs are among the most beautiful and well made in the game (the entire final fight is almost entirely made up of high-budget cutscenes), so the notion that they focused their budget only on the first two arcs because they're more popular doesn't make a lot of sense (especially when their premise is to deliver the whole Dragon Ball story retold in the best possible way).
Cipher wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:29 pm The anime ending is something that's going to have a higher influence on a manga than on mobile games, no matter how you slice it. V-Jump titles are already niche, so when you don't have more accessible media pointing people toward them, you'll inevitably see a drop-off. The fact that the Moro arc has no presence in other media of any kind (games, etc.) is also going to mean a drop-off in sales for those volumes.
We saw Super Saiyan God Vegeta being introduced to the animation with the Broly movie, anr with the magazines that announced this directly referencing the manga (I would say that even the SSG's return with Goku during the Tournament of Power in the anime was influenced by the manga as well), so I think it's just a matter of them waiting for the best moment to introduce some of these concepts in the media that inevitably receive more attention
There isn't too many reasons to skip the Final Flash, while having a well-produced cutscene of Goku one-shotting Recoome. Even Vegeta turning Cut into fireworks got a cutscene. We also got other things like Trunks vs Cell not being shown.

"The main scenes of the Cell and Boo arcs are among the most beautiful and well made in the game (the entire final fight is almost entirely made up of high-budget cutscenes)"

So were the Saiyan and Namek Saga that had extra cutscenes. In fact, the only highly detailed cutscenes in the Cell Saga were the last part of the Cell Games starting with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Buu Saga has a bit more cutscenes scattered across the saga, but still less overall less than the Saiyan and Namek Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Thu May 27, 2021 3:12 am

Kinokima wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 8:44 pm Actually the Mobile Game sales have gone down since the anime ended too. Not saying Dokkan for example is doing badly but you don’t see the Japanese or Global version hitting top grossing as often as when there was an ongoing anime
Merchandise sales have gone down too.

So while Dragon Ball is still doing extremely well as a franchise it hasn’t gotten “stronger” since the anime ended except the manga.

Dokkan constantly hit #1 until around last year and that's because a new mobile game came out. Namely, the waifu horse game that the Dokkan fandom likes to meme. Also not helping that Dokkan have been making Dokkanfest and LRs of less hype characters Pikkon, Videl, Goten and Trunks, GT Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta, and LR Super 17. The only standout unit that didn't get top grossing was INT OG Broly for Saiyan Day.

Someone did a video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zh9YNbtiVE

So Dokkan actually didn't go down. And Legends started after the anime ended and has been overall doing better every year. It also took years after the anime ended for merch to go down and that's because they're not adding anything new. So it did get stronger after the anime ended since the decline is very recent and the manga started to decline around 2019.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by Cipher » Thu May 27, 2021 3:47 am

HeroR wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 am Thing is, the Dragon Ball Super manga was doing much better until Volume 10 where there is a noticeably dropped in sales and it happened over a year after the anime ended.
That isn’t surprising, since that’s the first part of the series with no cross-promotion in any other media.
It depends because Dokkan is actually more influence by the original Dragon Ball manga more than the anime outside of the movies for obvious reasons and using the anime color schemes. Like fans who do translations for Dokkan has noted that the quotes used in the game come mostly from the manga compared to the anime and there are several poses or panels that are influence by the manga that is not in the anime. That and the manga in general have stronger influence in Japan.
The manga is more available in Japan and has the more lasting impact, but manga sales pick up when adaptations are running—that’s part of the ecosystem, and why artists are so eager to land them.

Super seeing a sales drop off when absolutely nothing else is promoting its content was an inevitability and probably something Shueisha anticipated/was okay with.
Overall, the Super manga is probably the least successful thing that carries the Super's name.
I mean, yes and no? It will never have the raw numbers mobile games or TV/films do because of it’s nature as a V-Jump comic, though it’s pretty radical successful within that limited sphere. It’s kind of nuts to even be in the conversation with, like ... “real”(?) series, even with a post-multimedia drop-off compared to its own numbers.

But I think what both that relative success and drop off without multi-media support point to is the overall answer to this thread—as a monthly title in V-Jump, Super is doing what it needs to, but it doesn’t have such a high ceiling as a manga on its own that it warrants investing resources and space into moving it weekly or shifting it into another publication.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by OrangeBanana » Thu May 27, 2021 7:33 am

Having more people work on something ain't always gonna make things go faster. Besides super being a monthly manga is fine, its better for the health of the author and prevents burn out (at least for me). The only thing I think toyo should change is try to progress the plot a little bit more each chapter, but this also makes me come back for more soooooo its a dilemma.

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Re: Why don’t they simply hire more drawers for the Super Manga???

Post by HeroR » Fri May 28, 2021 6:07 am

Cipher wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 3:47 am
HeroR wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:40 am Thing is, the Dragon Ball Super manga was doing much better until Volume 10 where there is a noticeably dropped in sales and it happened over a year after the anime ended.
That isn’t surprising, since that’s the first part of the series with no cross-promotion in any other media.
It depends because Dokkan is actually more influence by the original Dragon Ball manga more than the anime outside of the movies for obvious reasons and using the anime color schemes. Like fans who do translations for Dokkan has noted that the quotes used in the game come mostly from the manga compared to the anime and there are several poses or panels that are influence by the manga that is not in the anime. That and the manga in general have stronger influence in Japan.
The manga is more available in Japan and has the more lasting impact, but manga sales pick up when adaptations are running—that’s part of the ecosystem, and why artists are so eager to land them.

Super seeing a sales drop off when absolutely nothing else is promoting its content was an inevitability and probably something Shueisha anticipated/was okay with.
Overall, the Super manga is probably the least successful thing that carries the Super's name.
I mean, yes and no? It will never have the raw numbers mobile games or TV/films do because of it’s nature as a V-Jump comic, though it’s pretty radical successful within that limited sphere. It’s kind of nuts to even be in the conversation with, like ... “real”(?) series, even with a post-multimedia drop-off compared to its own numbers.

But I think what both that relative success and drop off without multi-media support point to is the overall answer to this thread—as a monthly title in V-Jump, Super is doing what it needs to, but it doesn’t have such a high ceiling as a manga on its own that it warrants investing resources and space into moving it weekly or shifting it into another publication.
Volume 10 was around 2019, a full year after the anime ended. So it had no real promotion for quite some time.

In terms of the anime, it's really hard to make a 1:1 comparison, but the anime did cause CR to crashed several times at its peak. The one-hour special for example nuked CR for nearly 12 hours and Mexico has a big showing for the final two episodes of Super, which you can see here for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDCS1-o-AZs

Everyone else with Dragon Ball's name more or less exploded with Super to the point it surpassed One Piece and even while Dragon Ball is in a downturn it still outperforms One Piece. I say the Dragon Ball Super manga is the least successful because of its overall lack of influence anywhere outside of nods. Like I still don't get why we don't have a Super Saiyan Black.

" It’s kind of nuts to even be in the conversation with, like ... “real”(?) series, even with a post-multimedia drop-off compared to its own numbers."

Yes and no. People have this same discussion on Boruto. Except the Boruto's manga is considered the 'real' canon much like any manga. It's really only the Super manga that it's debatable.

It's hard to say the manga doesn't warrant more than what is has gotten when it never got much. Like there is no reason why the Super manga never got merch. Like there are people on Dokkan and Legends who want a Hakai SSB Goku for example. So it's kinda the chicken and the egg.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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