How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

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superfan2024
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How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by superfan2024 » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:48 am

We all know of the complaints about Goku's character in the DBS anime, but since the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies were all mostly written by Toriyama, how do we feel about the portrayal of Goku there?

Dialogue, actions, etc?

I feel like Toriyama did a pretty good job. Goku's struggle with Beerus was great in BoG, the dialogue between Goku and Freeza in RoF was phenomenal, and Goku's interactions with Broly and Cheelai were also great, not to mention the final line of the movie ("call me Kakarot").

What do you all think?

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by Trouser » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:38 am

He did a good job. Goku felt more like Goku. He had funny and goofy scenes that didn't make him a retard like in Super anime. There is only one scene that I find on par with Goku DBS stupidity:
This scene feels like something Toei writers would do... I don't know. Other than that I think Goku from movies is fine and I'm happy to see him this way.
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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by superfan2024 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Trouser wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:38 am He did a good job. Goku felt more like Goku. He had funny and goofy scenes that didn't make him a retard like in Super anime. There is only one scene that I find on par with Goku DBS stupidity:
This scene feels like something Toei writers would do... I don't know. Other than that I think Goku from movies is fine and I'm happy to see him this way.
Already knew you were going to choose that scene even before I opened the spoiler :lol:
But yeah, that was most likely just a Toei addition, visually.

I am also really fond of Goku in the movies.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by Yuji » Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:09 pm

I think generally Goku is more interesting in the movies than he is in the TV series or the manga, and since Toriyama's more closely invovled with the script, it can't be a mere coincidence. I think he was very disappointing in F. He played too far into the "toxic" aspects of the character at the expense of the heroic ones; especially considering how Goku's portrayal during the Namek arc was likely the more traditionally heroic Goku has ever been, it's even more jarring when you parallel his characterization there with the one in F (which you're bound to do, considering they both feature Freeza as the main antagonist). Generally that whole movie was disappointing and felt off, so I don't think Goku was the odd man out there. BoG remains the most interesting portrayal of the character since the original run, and he didn't really have much of an arc in Broly besides accepting more of his heritage which is fair and linear progression from his arc back on Namek.
Trouser wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:38 am He did a good job. Goku felt more like Goku. He had funny and goofy scenes that didn't make him a retard like in Super anime. There is only one scene that I find on par with Goku DBS stupidity:
This scene feels like something Toei writers would do... I don't know. Other than that I think Goku from movies is fine and I'm happy to see him this way.
I agree. This feels like something straight out of One Piece. I dislike how Toyotaro later copied it for the Moro arc.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:08 pm

Goku has always been naive and an idiot, I don't get why people think this is a new thing. Maybe they are thinking of Dragon Ball through the distorted view of their childhood memories, back when they took the show very seriously and didn't realize how goofy it actually was because they were children.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:17 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:08 pm Goku has always been naive and an idiot, I don't get why people think this is a new thing. Maybe they are thinking of Dragon Ball through the distorted view of their childhood memories, back when they took the show very seriously and didn't realize how goofy it actually was because they were children.
I agree, too. I think people do overplay the "STUPID SUPER GOKU" narrative because of a few dumb things he did/say in RoF or the Black arc or something. Nothing about him fundamentally changed, his "poisonous" traits were merely highlighted in some parts.
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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by super michael » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:24 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:08 pm Goku has always been naive and an idiot, I don't get why people think this is a new thing. Maybe they are thinking of Dragon Ball through the distorted view of their childhood memories, back when they took the show very seriously and didn't realize how goofy it actually was because they were children.
Sorry it has nothing to do with nostalgia or distorted memory and here is the evidence with 1 by 1 comparison, I won’t add things like kissing since we don’t know if DB Goku knew about kissing:

Buu Saga Goku = Becareful Vegeta if you die you cease to exist. This is Buu Saga
DBS Goku = So what if you die King Kai, you are already dead. This is when recruiting C17

DB Goku = Tien you cheater. This is in 22nd world martial art tournament. Chiaotzu uses magic.
DBS Goku = Goku doesn't realize someone doing something to slow him down. Chiaotzu uses magic.

DB Goku = Goku the only one to know who is stronger between Tien and Tai Pai Pai
DBS Goku = Goku the only one to not know Monaka is weak.

DB Goku = Goku the only one who knew Kami was lying.
DBS Goku = Goku the only one who doesn't know that Beerus was lying.

DB Goku = I recognise his scent, Master Shen reveal his identity.
DBS Goku = Can't tell he is fighting Beerus, even though the ki is of Beerus, costume breaking and no masking scent. Goku can hear their voice, smell their scent and Yamcha spilled the beans but nothing Goku is brainless.

DB Goku = Never forgets senzu beans
DBS Goku = Forgets senzu beans, urn and talisman, which lead to Future Trunks time line being erased, since Mafuba was useless. Master Roshi went to get the talisman, but Goku just left.

DB Goku = Wanted to avenge Uppa father
DBS Goku = Doesn't care that Vegeta was disappearing and wasted time holding back and asking pointless question instead of mind reading.

DB and DBZ Goku = Rarely drop their guard and when someone did a sneak attack he was able to react, like in Goku vs Ginyu battle.
DBS Goku = Enjoys dropping his guard too much even when he knows he is the target and can get attacked at any time. His guard is so down that he can't react at all.

DB and DBZ Goku = Able to keep secrets with no problem such as Kami and Future Trunks.
DBS Goku = Unable to keep secrets stated by Bulma.

DB and DBZ Goku = Doesn’t Force or pester anyone to fight him.
DBS Goku = Forces anyone to fight him, even if they have no desire or just plain don't want to fight such as Monaka, Zamasu, Gohan, etc.

DB and DBZ Goku = acknowledge some of his mistakes
DBS Goku = doesn’t acknowledge any mistakes he does
*DBZ Goku acknowledge letting Vegeta was a mistake and when the Cell Jr beat up the Z fighters.

DB and DBZ Goku = When Goku see someone die, he always thinks of using the Dragon Balls to revive even if they are strangers who he never met.
DBS Goku = When Jiren ask Goku what would he wish for, Goku says that he doesn't know even though he saw the other Universe erased.

DB Goku = Waited patiently to get trained by Master Roshi and obeyed him.
DBS Goku = Goku was annoying Whis and being inpatient, even though Whis agreed to train him. Goku got so annoying that Whis considered not training him

This list shows the difference between DB and DBZ Goku with DBS Goku. The worst mistake Goku did caused Future Trunks time line to get erased, since his mistake made it impossible to defeat Zamasu and had to rely on Zeno who erased that time line.

People are not exaggerating Goku dumb level in DBS.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:41 pm

There is one detail from Battle of Gods that I wish would have made it into the anime adaptation. In Battle of Gods, Beerus notes that Goku's tone of voice upon discovering his new God power was not one of happiness, and he asks why. Goku says it's because it was a power that was given to him, not something he earned. He knew he never would have reached such heights on his own, and that bothered him. That's a very Goku moment, and yet the longer anime adaptation never addresses this.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by Yuji » Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:44 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:41 pm There is one detail from Battle of Gods that I wish would have made it into the anime adaptation. In Battle of Gods, Beerus notes that Goku's tone of voice upon discovering his new God power was not one of happiness, and he asks why. Goku says it's because it was a power that was given to him, not something he earned. He knew he never would have reached such heights on his own, and that bothered him. That's a very Goku moment, and yet the longer anime adaptation never addresses this.
He mentions at the very end of the battle when celebrating with his family he didn't enjoy not earning the power; so it's still there, only poorly handled and relegated to the ending of the arc. I assume it got cut from the main fight since it more-so focused on Beerus' characterization instead, and his struggles to find a strong rival who can rid him of his boredom, but I reckon they could have found a way to intertwine both character arcs.

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Re: How do we feel about the way Toriyama wrote Goku in the BoG, RoF, and DBS Broly movies?

Post by Jack Bz » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:59 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:41 pm There is one detail from Battle of Gods that I wish would have made it into the anime adaptation. In Battle of Gods, Beerus notes that Goku's tone of voice upon discovering his new God power was not one of happiness, and he asks why. Goku says it's because it was a power that was given to him, not something he earned. He knew he never would have reached such heights on his own, and that bothered him. That's a very Goku moment, and yet the longer anime adaptation never addresses this.
I think they lessened this aspect in the anime and the manga because it just didn't make sense any more. Goku in the film has something of an existential crisis that he has discovered a level of strength that he could never reach by himself. The idea that there's a level of strength that can't be reached through training shocks him.

But then we discover that, well... he could have reached it on his own. Vegeta managed it, and so do many many other characters who aren't gods who didn't need a ritual. Freeza managed it. 17 probably managed it. Jiren managed it probably 100x over. But for Goku it was impossible? It doesn't really make sense anymore for there to have ever been that wall.

But I agree that it was one of the more interesting character moments for Goku. But it jives a lot better with a one off film than it does with a running series where there will be numerous god level opponents who aren't gods themselves.

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