Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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precita
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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by precita » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:11 pm

They should both retire to the bahamas.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by Lionel » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:28 pm

Kagari wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:37 pm
Lionel wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:57 pm Others have explained the rationality of the Saiyan duo remaining constant presences best. If the others were to take the centre stage and be the ones to engage a major threat then I suspect that for it to not feel like a superfluous write-off it would have to tie in somehow with Goku and Vegeta's narratives. Principally the Baby character does utilise this concept in a way due to the nature of his character being a manipulative parasite who purposes the strength of others for his own ends. Garlic jr in reverse might also serve this function as the broader cast are the main agents of the arc with a past encounter against Goku and his rival at the time.

If there was going to be any sort of dedication to the non Goku/Vegeta members then I would hope for it to carry some weight to itself and not be a meaningless excursion to assuage the fanbase's desire for someone that isn't the golden boys.
Everything in Super centers on Goku at the core, Vegeta is just around as a sidekick so he is not necessary to remain center stage. Like I said before, Vegeta was benched for a lot of the Universe Survival arc in the anime because... he just didn't need to be there, it wasn't his story. It's the same for everything else. He's a support character who gets swapped out for Trunks at one point, and Gohan at another and then Freeza and 17 in the last few episodes. Saying he has to be there isn't quite right when Goku's story continues without him present or not.
Well he may not be indispensable like Goku is now but I think Toriyama has instilled this expectation in the reader's mind that Vegeta will have a joint role in the progression and conflict of an arc's story. Like it or not it's been a generally consistent model used as far back as ROF. Believe me, though, I wish Toriyama had more gumption and was willing to put him aside at least for one arc. What this revival could use is more interesting dynamics in the characters. Vegeta's remorse for the atrocities he committed and his back & forth banter with certain villains is entertaining but he's still only just one character.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by Peach » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:23 am

I would be fine with it.

I actually had a dream last night that time was round time back to right after the Buu saga. And only Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Yamcha, and Vegeta maintained their memories of Super. And they had to fight some new bad guys in their weaker bodies that came to earth via a butterfly effect.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by BWri » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:57 am

Peach wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:23 am I would be fine with it.

I actually had a dream last night that time was round time back to right after the Buu saga. And only Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Yamcha, and Vegeta maintained their memories of Super. And they had to fight some new bad guys in their weaker bodies that came to earth via a butterfly effect.
This is strange, but I like it.
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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by Shinsa » Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:48 pm

Yes of course I would like an arc with out the big two because I'm one that would also love to see a brand new protagonist and cast. I dissagree that DB needs to be only Goku or Vegeta. Any thing can work and expand the current world and story as long as Toei, Toriyama or whoever is in charge put care, time and money into it and not rush the product. Which unfortunately Super was.

The series needs to evolve if it wants to have or keep a similar resonance as the original for old fans but mostly for new ones to keep it in the spot light. Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't follow a lot of new anime or what's popular but I don't see a lot of teenagers or young 20 year old's talking or care about Dragonball. Unlike a Star Wars, Marvel, DC, One Piece or Pokemon.

I will give the studio props for giving DB to Arc System works and making one of the best DBZ games. The game was huge in the FGC when it first released as it's a competent competitive fighter making it spike in popularity.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by Cipher » Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:45 am

Re: Vegeta: Easy to phase him out with a timeskip, or just have circumstances prevent him joining Goku for an arc.

Goku post-going off with Oob is certainly doing his own thing, so there's nothing preventing a storyline from taking place on the other side of it from, say, leaving Vegeta on Earth while Goku joins some of the newer characters for a travel arc. On that note, Vegeta + Gohan is a combo ripe for exploration that the story has never really taken advantage of. My ideal fan arc would probably have Goku and some newer cast members off in space/other universes while Gohan and Vegeta are in charge of holding down the fort (in some meaningful, non-side-act way) on Earth.

Re: The thread generally: I echo others in that while I think Goku is essential, I do wish for more new characters being brought into the fold, as was always DB's way (so, less Yamcha and Tenshinhan and Piccolo, more Hit and Freeza and Broly and other U6 and U11 characters, etc.), and for more situational positioning of other cast members in meaningful temporary spotlight roles, a la Kuririn, Gohan and Bulma taking over the main spot for a stretch on Namek. (Not just finding something for the expanded cast to do to have a bit of action, a la the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc; if that's the alternative, I'd rather just have Goku and Vegeta adventuring together, as stale as that's gotten, since at least I'm not left with the impression that I'm going through a portion of the narrative without consequence.)

I have just about zero interest in giving the side cast on Earth an arc just to do it though. They've all essentially had their character arcs completed and it always feels like treading water focusing on them. Plenty of new cast members with interesting things left to do (or new in role/position, in Freeza's case), and I'd rather see greater willingness to bring them in.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by precita » Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:20 pm

Cipher wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:45 am Re: The thread generally: I echo others in that while I think Goku is essential, I do wish for more new characters being brought into the fold, as was always DB's way (so, less Yamcha and Tenshinhan and Piccolo, more Hit and Freeza and Broly and other U6 and U11 characters, etc.), and for more situational positioning of other cast members in meaningful temporary spotlight roles,

I have just about zero interest in giving the side cast on Earth an arc just to do it though. They've all essentially had their character arcs completed and it always feels like treading water focusing on them. Plenty of new cast members with interesting things left to do (or new in role/position, in Freeza's case), and I'd rather see greater willingness to bring them in.
I honestly believe there's some sort of mandate that in the Super manga he can't use Freeza, Broly, or Caulifa/Kale, Jiren, or other notable characters.

You might wonder why, but there really is no good reason for all these characters to be absent following the Tournament of Power/Broly movie but they are. I wonder if there's some sort of "hands off" material that Toei doesn't want these characters focused on outside of movies or until the anime returns.

Caulifa/Kale, Broly, etc. are VERY marketable and it's odd not to see all these Saiyan characters get any follow-up in either of the Super manga arcs going. Freeza's complete absence as well as Jiren, Hit and the other big characters all being absent is a glaring omission as well. Maybe Toriyama/Toei want to save these characters for an animes big return, whereas the manga has largely been following new characters like Moro, Granola, etc.

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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:16 am

precita wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:20 pm
Cipher wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:45 am Re: The thread generally: I echo others in that while I think Goku is essential, I do wish for more new characters being brought into the fold, as was always DB's way (so, less Yamcha and Tenshinhan and Piccolo, more Hit and Freeza and Broly and other U6 and U11 characters, etc.), and for more situational positioning of other cast members in meaningful temporary spotlight roles,

I have just about zero interest in giving the side cast on Earth an arc just to do it though. They've all essentially had their character arcs completed and it always feels like treading water focusing on them. Plenty of new cast members with interesting things left to do (or new in role/position, in Freeza's case), and I'd rather see greater willingness to bring them in.
I honestly believe there's some sort of mandate that in the Super manga he can't use Freeza, Broly, or Caulifa/Kale, Jiren, or other notable characters.

You might wonder why, but there really is no good reason for all these characters to be absent following the Tournament of Power/Broly movie but they are. I wonder if there's some sort of "hands off" material that Toei doesn't want these characters focused on outside of movies or until the anime returns.

Caulifa/Kale, Broly, etc. are VERY marketable and it's odd not to see all these Saiyan characters get any follow-up in either of the Super manga arcs going. Freeza's complete absence as well as Jiren, Hit and the other big characters all being absent is a glaring omission as well. Maybe Toriyama/Toei want to save these characters for an animes big return, whereas the manga has largely been following new characters like Moro, Granola, etc.
Well the Granolah arc features Freeza as a very important part of the plot, he just hasn't personally appeared yet.
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Re: Should Goku and Vegeta sit an arc out?

Post by evirus » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:41 am

I think it would be best to have two arcs going on at once, hav G and V doing stuff over here and the rest doing stuff over there.

The longer DB sticks with the pair the more stale it will become

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