What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by precita » Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:04 pm

The anime Moro arc should dedicate 10+ episodes to Gohan and the other humans fights and expand their roles even further, then the Moro arc would be good.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:44 pm

dragonball0900 wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:04 pm It is my favourite DBS arc, far better than the ToP in my opinion. I love how it even gives some spotlight to characters that deserved spotlight in the ToP, such as Buu and Yamcha, and gave Piccolo and Gohan some more action than before.

It has some faults, yeah. But I like it better than the previous arcs.
Sorry, I meant to say "DBS" here. There's no way this is arc is as good as any from the original series for me.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:55 pm

I liked it. It did feel like it was dragging its feet at times, especially once Goku starts his second fight with Moro, but it was a solid arc overall.

I wasn't a fan of how Vegeta was treated, though. I'm usually not one of those fans that says that Vegeta gets shafted all the time, but I really felt it in this arc. There was so much build up for his training, only for him to be dominating Moro briefly in a single chapter and then gets his ass beat moments later.

I liked how the Earth side characters were involved in the battle. They didn't feel forced in and they were fighting opponents that felt appropriate for their battle levels.

Merus was a great character. One thing I've really loved about Super is involving "rogue" diety characters into the main story. I loved what they did with Zamasu and I love what they've done with Merus. Though I think I would've preferred him stay dead. It would've been a major consequence for him going against the Angel code. Him losing his Angel abilities doesn't really feel like a massive consequence to be honest.

Was not a fan of going to Namek again and for the Namekians to get fucked over again. There's a big ass universe out there, why are we always going back to locations that we've seen multiple times before? It did at least give us some great moments with Vegeta acknowledging the horrible things he did there back in the Namek arc.

At first, I didn't care for Moro all that much. He just came off as every other villain we've seen up to this point. Nothing really new. But then I realised that that was kinda the point of his character. He's supposed to be the ultimate villain, a combination of every villain that Goku has faced. So in hindsight, I actually like him a lot more now. I just wish he did more with his magic.

Moro's goons... kinda sucked? I dunno, they came off as throwaway characters at first with their really generic designs, but later on some of them actually turn out to be really significant to the story. Like... Seven-Three has the most generic-ass design I think I've ever seen in this franchise. He's literally just Hit but with some horns and a few crystal ovals on his forehead. I thought this guy was gonna die in like 2 chapters and that's it, but he ends up being the reason for how Moro reaches full power at the end of the arc. Not only that, but he even ties into the Granolla arc. That's all fine and well, but his character design sucks so much and has zero personality. His abilities are cool, though.

Overall, it's a good arc. I love the climax of the arc and how it all ties into Uub. I hope it gets animated one day. I also hope that the anime will flesh out some of the stuff that felt underwhelming for me, like Vegeta's battle with Moro.

As for the general consensus? I always see mixed feelings toward the arc. People either love it or hate it, for the most part.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 pm

Dylanrockin wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:59 pm Genuinely I'm curious. I read it once, monthly, and thought it was about a 75-80ish. Reread the entire thing in one-sitting and still feeling about around there. Not spectacular, overstayed its welcome, but overall good. Not amazing, not great, just good. Liked the beginning, a lot actually, and if you were to make a line graph of how well it went to its current status, from where it started, it would be a lot of ups and downs. The 73 Moro I know a lot of people didn't like, but I actually kind of dig the appearance a bit. That said, that form was definitely the weaker, one visually, from his previous forms.

Also, that ending I really quite liked and when Goku went MUI against Moro was extremely cathartic and satisfying.

Overall, I look forward to seeing it animated and maybe it will make more sense as an anime than it does a manga - especially if they can make it a bit better paced. Kind of like how Yu Yu Hakusho cut out parts from the manga to make the anime better paced. Not holding my breath, but hey, who knows.

Kind of curious how others felt.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by Marz » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:28 pm

Cipher wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:37 am And then there's a section of fans who just have never had anything good to say about the Super manga, and whose minds weren't changed by it either way.
These particular people would never have anything good to say anyway, because for many of them it's not even about the quality of the product.

Some have a strong bias against Toyotaro from the start (either because they have favorite fan artists that they think would be better choices or because he has written fanfics in the past and has a label attached to him because of that now which is easy to mock).

Others are still stuck in the anime vs manga clashes, because since the two media began to diverge in the way they told stories people started to prefer specific media, siding with one while automatically biasing against whatever the other did, and that still remains true to this day, it's not hard to see it out there

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by precita » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:28 am

Didn't this arc get a lot of hate for being too much of a retread of the Cell arc with Namek being rehashed again as well? I remember when the issues were coming out people kept saying, "there's nothing new" happening and that they were just retreading old story beats.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by DestructoDisc » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:55 pm

A lot of people started disliking it the moment Vegeta lost to Moro on earth, at least from what I've seen. Then Goku gave Moro a senzu bean and the hate towards the arc skyrocketed, mostly on twitter and youtube. Wouldn't be surprised if Toyo got some death threats for that, people tend to get very sensitive whenever something they don't like happens in shows/mangas they're fond of. Then people started liking the saga again when the final battle between Goku and Moro bagan. Nowadays I don't even hear people talk about it much.

Moro's reception should also be talked about. I have yet to see any diehard Moro fans. Jiren, Beerus, Freeza, Cell, Kid Buu, even Z Broly all had diehard, massive fans who would defend their favorite characters no matter what, and get into arguments with those who downplay them. I have yet to see a Moro fan like that. I've actually seen more Moro haters than just normal fans.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:30 pm

DestructoDisc wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:55 pm A lot of people started disliking it the moment Vegeta lost to Moro on earth, at least from what I've seen. Then Goku gave Moro a senzu bean and the hate towards the arc skyrocketed, mostly on twitter and youtube. Wouldn't be surprised if Toyo got some death threats for that, people tend to get very sensitive whenever something they don't like happens in shows/mangas they're fond of. Then people started liking the saga again when the final battle between Goku and Moro bagan. Nowadays I don't even hear people talk about it much.

Moro's reception should also be talked about. I have yet to see any diehard Moro fans. Jiren, Beerus, Freeza, Cell, Kid Buu, even Z Broly all had diehard, massive fans who would defend their favorite characters no matter what, and get into arguments with those who downplay them. I have yet to see a Moro fan like that. I've actually seen more Moro haters than just normal fans.
Indeed, I've yet to see any Moro fanboy. Actually I did run into a Moro fanboy elsewhere, but he was trolling so :lol:

But really it's natural that Moro would hardly have any fanboy, this guy is completely generic and forgettable. At least Jiren had the awesome episodes 109-110-130-131 to his name and in general a massive hype campaign, Moro doesn't even have that.

Moro indeed turned out to be a completely forgettable villain like many predicted.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by precita » Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:04 pm

Moro would likely get some fans if we ever get an anime adaption. Again outside of hardcore fans, most people do not read he Super manga so a lot of people have no idea who Moro even is.

To most people, Super ended with the Tournament of Power followed by the Broly movie and has been on hiatus ever since.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by Jamtia » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:23 am

I think that Moro would be more well received/more personable if he used more of his magic against his foes. We really haven't seen that up to this point. Yeah Babidi had it with mind control, but I think they could have done a lot with magic such as

Take away powers, freeze, transportation, reverse power levels, turn allies against each other. We sorta saw these with Babidi, but the big bad having these powers? Count me in!

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by BWri » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:42 pm

The anime staff seems to always add more interesting powers into the mix, so I'm sure they'll expand on Moro's magic in more creative ways if allowed to.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by The Golden God » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:51 am

It seemed like the perfect storyboard for a concise movie follow up to DBS Broly. Sadly it looks like that wasn’t the direction they were going. The Goku Black arc was spectacular, and stands out in my opinion as above and beyond anything else Super has to offer yet, Moro included. I’d rank the Super Arcs like this: Goku Black/Zamasu Arc>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ToP Arc>Moro Arc>>>>Champa Arc>RoF and BoG tied for last

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by The Golden God » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:51 am

It seemed like the perfect storyboard for a concise movie follow up to DBS Broly. Sadly it looks like that wasn’t the direction they were going. The Goku Black arc was spectacular, and stands out in my opinion as above and beyond anything else Super has to offer yet, Moro included. I’d rank the Super Arcs like this: Goku Black/Zamasu Arc>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ToP Arc>Moro Arc>>>>Champa Arc>RoF and BoG tied for last, probably ROF last if I had to choose. I hated BoG for a lot of reasons and Super could have heavily benefitted from not being launched by such a dumb movie, but I guess that’s how the chips fell.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:39 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:25 am Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Was Zamasu a good morally grey villain? Because more often than not he comes across as a whiny teenager upset that the older Kai's: "Just don't get me, man. I'll show them. Someday I'll make a better Kai sanctuary, with a second me."
We need a Steve Simmons retranslation of the manga.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by The Golden God » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:23 am

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:39 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:25 am Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Was Zamasu a good morally grey villain? Because more often than not he comes across as a whiny teenager upset that the older Kai's: "Just don't get me, man. I'll show them. Someday I'll make a better Kai sanctuary, with a second me."
A murderous teenage psychopath with a messiah complex is still more interesting than overconfident space pirate warlord no.872

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:33 am

BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:39 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:25 am Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Was Zamasu a good morally grey villain? Because more often than not he comes across as a whiny teenager upset that the older Kai's: "Just don't get me, man. I'll show them. Someday I'll make a better Kai sanctuary, with a second me."
Yes. I mean people often praise Vegeta's character in DBZ and he also says edgy and cringe shit.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by The Golden God » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:48 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:33 am
BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:39 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:25 am Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Was Zamasu a good morally grey villain? Because more often than not he comes across as a whiny teenager upset that the older Kai's: "Just don't get me, man. I'll show them. Someday I'll make a better Kai sanctuary, with a second me."
Yes. I mean people often praise Vegeta's character in DBZ and he also says edgy and cringe shit.
I mean the whole point of Goku is that he is completely devoid of any edgy cringe angsty thoughts whatsoever, aside from having rageful outbursts when his friends are hurt. So super edgy angsty emo characters are actually a great foil for him, since Goku is the opposite, he’s just a happy retard who likes to fight.

The twist with Zamasu is that despite him being completely deranged and antithetical to everything Goku believes, he actually wins in the end, until Goku remembers he’s friends with the literal God God. That’s what made this arc special it was truly unpredictable. The other arcs of Super follow a strict formula and never deviate from it, very predictable.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:04 am

The Golden God wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:48 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:33 am
BootyCheeksJohnson wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:39 am

Was Zamasu a good morally grey villain? Because more often than not he comes across as a whiny teenager upset that the older Kai's: "Just don't get me, man. I'll show them. Someday I'll make a better Kai sanctuary, with a second me."
Yes. I mean people often praise Vegeta's character in DBZ and he also says edgy and cringe shit.
I mean the whole point of Goku is that he is completely devoid of any edgy cringe angsty thoughts whatsoever, aside from having rageful outbursts when his friends are hurt. So super edgy angsty emo characters are actually a great foil for him, since Goku is the opposite, he’s just a happy retard who likes to fight.

The twist with Zamasu is that despite him being completely deranged and antithetical to everything Goku believes, he actually wins in the end, until Goku remembers he’s friends with the literal God God. That’s what made this arc special it was truly unpredictable. The other arcs of Super follow a strict formula and never deviate from it, very predictable.
Yep.

All Dragon Ball arcs in general are very predictable:

Villain appears > Side characters try to stop him but fail > Main hero steps in > They lose > They train/get a new form and come back > They beat the villain up > The villain gets one last power-up > The main hero kills the villain with a really strong attack

The Future Trunks arc subverts all of this. Following the norm, Future Trunks would have killed Fused Zamasu and saved the world. But Toriyama subverted this for the first time by having the heroes fail against [Infinite] Zamasu, which forced Zeno to appear and take care of him; and the entire Future timeline was erased from existence and not even the Dragon Balls can bring it and those people back. So in other words for the first time the Dragon Balls can't fix anything.

And not enough people appreciate this great subversion honestly.

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by The Golden God » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:17 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:04 am
The Golden God wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:48 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:33 am

Yes. I mean people often praise Vegeta's character in DBZ and he also says edgy and cringe shit.
I mean the whole point of Goku is that he is completely devoid of any edgy cringe angsty thoughts whatsoever, aside from having rageful outbursts when his friends are hurt. So super edgy angsty emo characters are actually a great foil for him, since Goku is the opposite, he’s just a happy retard who likes to fight.

The twist with Zamasu is that despite him being completely deranged and antithetical to everything Goku believes, he actually wins in the end, until Goku remembers he’s friends with the literal God God. That’s what made this arc special it was truly unpredictable. The other arcs of Super follow a strict formula and never deviate from it, very predictable.
Yep.

All Dragon Ball arcs in general are very predictable:

Villain appears > Side characters try to stop him but fail > Main hero steps in > They lose > They train/get a new form and come back > They beat the villain up > The villain gets one last power-up > The main hero kills the villain with a really strong attack

The Future Trunks arc subverts all of this. Following the norm, Future Trunks would have killed Fused Zamasu and saved the world. But Toriyama subverted this for the first time by having the heroes fail against [Infinite] Zamasu, which forced Zeno to appear and take care of him; and the entire Future timeline was erased from existence and not even the Dragon Balls can bring it and those people back. So in other words for the first time the Dragon Balls can't fix anything.

And not enough people appreciate this great subversion honestly.
Forreal. Toyotaro must have been smoking weed and was like “yo Toyirama like it would be totally radical if they all lose and everyone dies and then like Zeno has to save them” and Toriyama is like “um o-ok, but then we gotta go back to the same old same old you edgy fuck”

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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:25 am

The Golden God wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:17 am Forreal. Toyotaro must have been smoking weed and was like “yo Toyirama like it would be totally radical if they all lose and everyone dies and then like Zeno has to save them” and Toriyama is like “um o-ok, but then we gotta go back to the same old same old you edgy fuck”
Well pretty sure the idea came from Toriyama and was in his notes. What Toyotaro did though was to suggest the inclusion of Vegito (while originally the two Saiyans in SSB would take turns fighting Fused Zamasu).

But technically there wasn't any indication that Future Trunks or his timeline were fine in the End of Z (which is the canonical ending point of Super), so Toriyama could pretty much do whatever he wanted.

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