What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
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- Dylanrockin
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What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Genuinely I'm curious. I read it once, monthly, and thought it was about a 75-80ish. Reread the entire thing in one-sitting and still feeling about around there. Not spectacular, overstayed its welcome, but overall good. Not amazing, not great, just good. Liked the beginning, a lot actually, and if you were to make a line graph of how well it went to its current status, from where it started, it would be a lot of ups and downs. The 73 Moro I know a lot of people didn't like, but I actually kind of dig the appearance a bit. That said, that form was definitely the weaker, one visually, from his previous forms.
Also, that ending I really quite liked and when Goku went MUI against Moro was extremely cathartic and satisfying.
Overall, I look forward to seeing it animated and maybe it will make more sense as an anime than it does a manga - especially if they can make it a bit better paced. Kind of like how Yu Yu Hakusho cut out parts from the manga to make the anime better paced. Not holding my breath, but hey, who knows.
Kind of curious how others felt.
Also, that ending I really quite liked and when Goku went MUI against Moro was extremely cathartic and satisfying.
Overall, I look forward to seeing it animated and maybe it will make more sense as an anime than it does a manga - especially if they can make it a bit better paced. Kind of like how Yu Yu Hakusho cut out parts from the manga to make the anime better paced. Not holding my breath, but hey, who knows.
Kind of curious how others felt.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I think the anime could salvage this arc getting rid of the stupid parts (Goku giving Moro a Senzu bean for one thing), extending the scenes of Gohan and the humans fighting (which they'll probably do anyway), and making Moro a bit less one dimensional. The stuff with Boo especially is actually very interesting and was the highlight of this arc, but unfortunately it's more or less pushed aside as it goes on. Returning to Namek was pretty bland to be honest, reminded me too much of the second Cooler movie.
The manga in general is very poorly written, but there are some good concepts that could be fleshed out more. As it stands now it feels like, "published fanfiction," which is more or less exactly what it is. So iron out the bad parts, give Moro more agency, and well give us good animation and it'll be fine.
The manga in general is very poorly written, but there are some good concepts that could be fleshed out more. As it stands now it feels like, "published fanfiction," which is more or less exactly what it is. So iron out the bad parts, give Moro more agency, and well give us good animation and it'll be fine.
- TheSaiyanGod
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
It was good / solid. At least for me, it was an arc that benefited from a full reread after it was finished. The monthly wait tends to amplify the problems of the individual chapters, since if the chapter is mostly uneventful or slow, the bad impression is greater due to the wait and there is a whole month to discuss about (and this arc has pacing problems), so reading it all at once felt better.
I liked the direction that was taken with Vegeta's character, and it was refreshing to see him and Goku parting ways for different journeys during the story (the whole Yardrat stuff was great, especially the interactions with Pybara). Boo, despite being less used than he could have been, was a nice surprise, just like was Oob. Also, it provided a good way to explain why Goku still remained so interested in Oob after everything that happens in DBS (the Kaioshin lore overall was good too)
I felt that even though Merus is a compelling character, he would benefit a lot from more screen time, especially if his relationship with Goku was more fleshed out. Him being the trigger for Perfected UI was believable and his friendship with Goku felt real, but deep down there's a feeling that it could have been better. I also think Moro gets the job done as a villain, being an obstacle that forced Goku and Vegeta to look for different approaches to face him, but a little more nuance would benefit his character. He has some good moments as a threat with a more strategic and pragmatic approach, but for the most part he seems too one-dimensional. A more diverse interaction with the cast would be appreciated.
These two things are points that the anime could improve. However, fleshing out something and unnecessary padding are lines that the anime generally struggles to balance, and would not help the pacing of the arc, so that's something to watch out for.
I liked the direction that was taken with Vegeta's character, and it was refreshing to see him and Goku parting ways for different journeys during the story (the whole Yardrat stuff was great, especially the interactions with Pybara). Boo, despite being less used than he could have been, was a nice surprise, just like was Oob. Also, it provided a good way to explain why Goku still remained so interested in Oob after everything that happens in DBS (the Kaioshin lore overall was good too)
I felt that even though Merus is a compelling character, he would benefit a lot from more screen time, especially if his relationship with Goku was more fleshed out. Him being the trigger for Perfected UI was believable and his friendship with Goku felt real, but deep down there's a feeling that it could have been better. I also think Moro gets the job done as a villain, being an obstacle that forced Goku and Vegeta to look for different approaches to face him, but a little more nuance would benefit his character. He has some good moments as a threat with a more strategic and pragmatic approach, but for the most part he seems too one-dimensional. A more diverse interaction with the cast would be appreciated.
These two things are points that the anime could improve. However, fleshing out something and unnecessary padding are lines that the anime generally struggles to balance, and would not help the pacing of the arc, so that's something to watch out for.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I personally liked it.
I'm glad we finally got an enemy that used magic (I know Babidi but him alone he wasn't really a threat).
Returning to new Namek and Vegeta making amends for what happened in the past was great for character development.
Seeing Yardrats was cool. Still kinda confused why Vegeta knew to go there to learn that move though.
Boo and his counterpart Kai getting action/backstory was awesome.
I would have loved to see Beerus with his interaction with Moro. But I know they kept him away on purpose just so it's not a resort to Beerus show. Just loved to see a God of Destruction facing off against that monster, or at least talking with him.
73 was a pretty cool character.
Cool to see Meerus. Didn't care for him at first honestly but grew on me when I found out he was an angel. Makes me think how many more are out there that haven't been shown in the TOP.
Z Warriors getting more action is always a plus.
I don't have any negative thoughts. There are parts that could have done without maybe. Felt like some parts were rough around the edges. Goku giving Moro a sensu bean is like wtf... but that to me is Super's Goku for you.
I'm not sure about the pacing of this arc. It's really hard in manga (I watched the read through on youtube) so I feel like it went kinda quick. Hopefully we get to see an anime adaptation.
I don't know how I would have made the arc any better honestly. At this point it's still the Goku and Vegeta show. And with their God powers/levels continuing to go up, it just makes the side characters even more useless. That's why the TOP was such a breath of fresh air. It made me miss what made Dragonball so great was the team work pre Buu saga. Even if Goku had to save the day at the end, at least the others helped in many areas. I can see why people hated GT just for the fact that it was the Goku show.
I'm glad we finally got an enemy that used magic (I know Babidi but him alone he wasn't really a threat).
Returning to new Namek and Vegeta making amends for what happened in the past was great for character development.
Seeing Yardrats was cool. Still kinda confused why Vegeta knew to go there to learn that move though.
Boo and his counterpart Kai getting action/backstory was awesome.
I would have loved to see Beerus with his interaction with Moro. But I know they kept him away on purpose just so it's not a resort to Beerus show. Just loved to see a God of Destruction facing off against that monster, or at least talking with him.
73 was a pretty cool character.
Cool to see Meerus. Didn't care for him at first honestly but grew on me when I found out he was an angel. Makes me think how many more are out there that haven't been shown in the TOP.
Z Warriors getting more action is always a plus.
I don't have any negative thoughts. There are parts that could have done without maybe. Felt like some parts were rough around the edges. Goku giving Moro a sensu bean is like wtf... but that to me is Super's Goku for you.
I'm not sure about the pacing of this arc. It's really hard in manga (I watched the read through on youtube) so I feel like it went kinda quick. Hopefully we get to see an anime adaptation.
I don't know how I would have made the arc any better honestly. At this point it's still the Goku and Vegeta show. And with their God powers/levels continuing to go up, it just makes the side characters even more useless. That's why the TOP was such a breath of fresh air. It made me miss what made Dragonball so great was the team work pre Buu saga. Even if Goku had to save the day at the end, at least the others helped in many areas. I can see why people hated GT just for the fact that it was the Goku show.
- SupremeKai25
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
It seems to either be people's favorite or least favorite arc in Super as a whole, with no in between, based almost entirely on whether or not they liked the first three arcs of the manga.
And then there's a section of fans who just have never had anything good to say about the Super manga, and whose minds weren't changed by it either way.
I'll never give my opinion away, but let me say that I really enjoy the first three arcs of the Super manga. That said, there's also no arc in it I don't at least mostly enjoy.
And then there's a section of fans who just have never had anything good to say about the Super manga, and whose minds weren't changed by it either way.
I'll never give my opinion away, but let me say that I really enjoy the first three arcs of the Super manga. That said, there's also no arc in it I don't at least mostly enjoy.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I'm pretty much with you. I think an animated version would be better and I'd welcome the length with more fleshed out training sequences from the sub characters. The only thing that brings the arc down for me is Goku deciding to not only spare Moro but hand him a sensu bean as well. That feels OOC and seemingly only exists to artificially extend the arc for another chapter. I think the same thing could be done with simply having Moro outsmart Goku, which is what he does anyway, he just shouldn't need Goku's help to do it.Dylanrockin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:59 pm Genuinely I'm curious. I read it once, monthly, and thought it was about a 75-80ish. Reread the entire thing in one-sitting and still feeling about around there. Not spectacular, overstayed its welcome, but overall good. Not amazing, not great, just good. Liked the beginning, a lot actually, and if you were to make a line graph of how well it went to its current status, from where it started, it would be a lot of ups and downs. The 73 Moro I know a lot of people didn't like, but I actually kind of dig the appearance a bit. That said, that form was definitely the weaker, one visually, from his previous forms.
Also, that ending I really quite liked and when Goku went MUI against Moro was extremely cathartic and satisfying.
Overall, I look forward to seeing it animated and maybe it will make more sense as an anime than it does a manga - especially if they can make it a bit better paced. Kind of like how Yu Yu Hakusho cut out parts from the manga to make the anime better paced. Not holding my breath, but hey, who knows.
Kind of curious how others felt.
I'd also like a redesign of Moro73 so he doesn't look so much like Cell. Other than that, I loved the developments for all the characters from Vegeta's repentence + spiritual training to the strength gains of the sub-characters and I love the fights. Maybe let the humans win their 2nd fights too. Goku doesn't have to mop up all the jobbers and Saganbo, geez! At least let Gohan and Piccolo do that since they don't get to win either of their fights.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I mean, the most you'll really get here is a local consensus. It's hard for us to say what the general consensus is without doing some pretty heavy survey work. Ignoring that, the sense I get is that it's a very polarising arc. I've heard plenty of people say it's the best arc in Super, and I've heard plenty of people say it's the worst arc in Super (like Cipher says), so I'm not sure how to "rate" that.
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- Yo'Goodfella
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Yeah, Cipher and Alruneia have a great point. Kanzenshuu is only a place on the Internet, and the Internet is... Quite vast and varied to say the least.
Our answers we can give about the general consensus can only get accurate up to a certain point, which is "what we look at and hear overall".
For what I can say here, I've heard all kinds of opinions on the Moro Arc, which was a bit frustrating: it's amazing, it's really bad, it's overall eh, it started great but went off the rails later, mixed feelings overall, please do/do not adapt this...
I'm not sure. You also don't know which opinions it's best to take into account or not, as one may or may not have much experience with the Super Manga or Super at all, and you never really know until they demonstrate it in some way. And it's not as simple as getting one question righr or wrong.
Our answers we can give about the general consensus can only get accurate up to a certain point, which is "what we look at and hear overall".
For what I can say here, I've heard all kinds of opinions on the Moro Arc, which was a bit frustrating: it's amazing, it's really bad, it's overall eh, it started great but went off the rails later, mixed feelings overall, please do/do not adapt this...
I'm not sure. You also don't know which opinions it's best to take into account or not, as one may or may not have much experience with the Super Manga or Super at all, and you never really know until they demonstrate it in some way. And it's not as simple as getting one question righr or wrong.
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I'm really not an expert on the matter, but I like to think.
- capsulecorp
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I enjoyed it, especially the moments where Buu got to shine. It doesn't bother me that much about Moro is left to the imagination, or for the future (was he a demon?), and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with 7-3. The low point for me was the very unnatural and melodramatic Merus fakeout near the end. I'll have to read it again sometime but I think it's one of the stronger arcs in Super so far.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I think the only features of the arc that might reach anything like a real consensus amongst the broader spectrum of fans is:
...the TL;DR of which is:
- It's way too long and slow-paced;
- The villainous cast had more promise than they delivered in the end (whether Moro himself or his underlings);
- Merus is pretty cool;
- Vegeta's arc was pretty good;
- For all its flaws, it "stuck the landing", and that counts for something.
Spoiler:
- The Moro arc is occasionally excellent (mostly in the Final Act, in my opinion, but the First Act is also pretty good), marred at points by glaring flaws, and on balance comes out looking alright. Nothing like Dragon Ball Super's best, but not bad.
- The theme-work in the arc is excellent, like in basically all the other Super Manga arcs, particularly with the focus on Stealing, Earning, and Giving throughout, but also with ideas of Change and Changelessness, one's own spirit being manifested on the outside by the body, and the facing of the past - to wit:
- The way Goku, Vegeta and Merus's character arcs are variously handled in the arc is also strong, and the different ways Goku and Vegeta confront the problem of Moro is rewarding (particularly the way the Final Act seems to me to draw simultaneously on the Piccolo Cycle and on Goku's story as told in Dragon Ball overall to resolve itself);
- I didn't like Moro much on the first read through, but on re-read, he grew on me; he has definite presence and cut-through, his schtick works, and the way his actions bear the themes of the arc also work for me;
- On the other hand... the pacing is screwy; there's no denying it. Partly it's just too slow, not allowing enough to unfold per Chapter (200 pages could have been lopped off the sum total of the arc without causing any issues to speak of), and occasionally the plot moves elliptically to end up right back at the beginning of a series of actions already initiated (e.g. the faffing about in Space only to re-confront Moro back on Namek, but most egregiously, stopping the action-in-progress on Earth in Chapter 54, only to re-initiate it as a sideshow in Chapter 56); occasionally this sucked the momentum out of the plot.
- While I like Moro better on re-read, I like the Saganbo Bandit Brigade even less than I did previously. With the exception of Saganbo, OG73-I (who is functionally necessary to the plot) and Yuzun (who gets an entertaining little run-out in Chapter 55) none of them do anything interesting or worthwhile, even in the set-piece sideshow dedicated to them. If Moro needed goons, less would've been more, and they could've been more skilfully deployed.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I think from a story perspective, this arc would fit better in between the first two arcs of Super (BoG and RoF). All I would change is how Moro's magic work (as in, he can't actually handle god ki without going boom).
Apart from that, I enjoy the arc for what it is.
Apart from that, I enjoy the arc for what it is.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I will say that it's the first arc that felt like it had proper spectacle to it. I think, for a while that the manga has lacked in the style department which the anime delivers in spades from the very end of the U6 arc on. This arc seemed like it captured some of that vs the earlier arcs which feel dry compared to the anime.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
It was pretty good- it lagged in the middle, but had a strong start and end which is the best way to go. I liked the focus on Goku and Vegeta's mutual development as warriors after the previous story arcs left them both flat. I wasn't keen on Merus for most of it, but he won me over in the last act. And the climax was terrific- I really hope we get to see it animated someday.
The most interesting thing to me about the Moro arc was how it felt like a step-forward for Super while also feeling like a Z throwback. On the one hand, it gave Vegeta a purpose and dramatised motivation beyond being Goku's grumpy sidekick, on the other hand it gave us Moro, the least nuanced villain the series has had since the revival.
The most interesting thing to me about the Moro arc was how it felt like a step-forward for Super while also feeling like a Z throwback. On the one hand, it gave Vegeta a purpose and dramatised motivation beyond being Goku's grumpy sidekick, on the other hand it gave us Moro, the least nuanced villain the series has had since the revival.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
It's bad, but not as bad as Fukkatsu no F'. The only thing I liked in this... was introducing two types of Yardratians (from DBZ and DBO). Oh, and Yamcha. It was nice that he wasn't forgotten AGAIN when old fart Roshi fights all the time (I will never understand why is he on the battlefield). Other than that, I can't say anything good about it.
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Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this arc mostly Toyotaro's path? With Toriyama just adding bits and pieces here and there?SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:25 am Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Good: The arc gave a chance to every z fighter to fight except Goten and Trunks as usual.
New techniques for Vegeta and Gohan(Gohan only had kamehameha and masenko until that arc)
Merus is an interesting new character.
Uub showed a bit of his potential.
Bad: Moro is the worst thing of the arc. I had good expectations for him as he was hyped as a villain who uses mainly magic and not brute strenght but in the end he is probably the worst villain Dragon Ball ever had.
Moro's background is a copy of King Piccolo's background and his powers were a copy of the Androids(drain) and Cell(tecniques of all the z fighters). Almost nothing about magic.
The ending was also a copy of the Cell arc in which Moro tried to explode himself to destroy the Earth because Goku like Gohan with Cell didn't finish him when he could.
His personality is very bland, Freeza compared to him is x1000 times better in charisma.
New techniques for Vegeta and Gohan(Gohan only had kamehameha and masenko until that arc)
Merus is an interesting new character.
Uub showed a bit of his potential.
Bad: Moro is the worst thing of the arc. I had good expectations for him as he was hyped as a villain who uses mainly magic and not brute strenght but in the end he is probably the worst villain Dragon Ball ever had.
Moro's background is a copy of King Piccolo's background and his powers were a copy of the Androids(drain) and Cell(tecniques of all the z fighters). Almost nothing about magic.
The ending was also a copy of the Cell arc in which Moro tried to explode himself to destroy the Earth because Goku like Gohan with Cell didn't finish him when he could.
His personality is very bland, Freeza compared to him is x1000 times better in charisma.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
If they do an anime adaptation, I hope they give Moro some umph. Maybe some backstory, more personality, more use of magic. I felt like there was more potential with Moro and I do agree with the Cell comparisons.
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
Never been confirmed, but that seems to be the (not exactly subtle) implication in all the behind-the-scenes talk and promotion surrounding the arc.superfan2024 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:35 pm Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this arc mostly Toyotaro's path? With Toriyama just adding bits and pieces here and there?
Re: What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?
I liked when he became a planet.