What is the General Consensus on the Moro Arc?

[precita]

It's basically the Garlic Jr. saga of Super.

[ZombieVito]

A 5/10 that can be improved to a 7/10 by Toei.

Toei has a lot to fix so hopefully they do it.

[Skar]

Well there's no way to get a general consensus unless there's an official poll or something one day. In my own personal ranking, I would probably have it as my fourth or fifth favorite (after BoG, Broly, Champa). If I only considered my favorite moments from the ToP then it might be higher than Moro the arcs as a whole I would probably have Moro as fourth.

The manga in general is very poorly written, but there are some good concepts that could be fleshed out more. As it stands now it feels like, "published fanfiction," which is more or less exactly what it is. So iron out the bad parts, give Moro more agency, and well give us good animation and it'll be fine.

I don't know if that's fair criticism or at least very descriptive since it would be a short list of what storylines in DBS don't feel like published fanfiction. The Moro arc felt more like a longer version one of the old DBZ movies than something I'd expect or have only seen in fanfiction.

[precita]

I mean, a lot of the first 13 DBZ movies feel like "fanfiction" too, to be honest. It was like Toei doing the bare minimum in terms of plot and villain design with at least half of them and repeating whatever was going on in the main series at the time.

On that note, comparing Moro to the old DBZ movies or the Garlic Jr. saga is probably the best comparison. Even if Toriyama had some say in this arc or decided some things, the bulk of it really doesn't feel like something he came up with. I guess we'll never know fully.

[Skar]

I mean, a lot of the first 13 DBZ movies feel like "fanfiction" too, to be honest. It was like Toei doing the bare minimum in terms of plot and villain design with at least half of them and repeating whatever was going on in the main series at the time.

I guess it depends on how you define it. "Feels like fanfiction" could mean borrowing elements from the existing story but that's pretty broad or it could mean something that literally had only existed in fanfiction up until this point and mainly fan service. Moro wouldn't really fall under the latter definition compared to other storylines in DBS. Even then that doesn't really judge the individual story since I've seen a rebooted sympathetic Broly before in fanfiction but I've always liked the idea so I enjoyed the new movie.

[Sikat]

The consensus is it’s the best DBS arc.

[Cipher]

The consensus is it’s the best DBS arc.

I ... really don't think this is true. I do think there's a pretty consistent trend with it being either people's least favorite or favorite though. Almost everyone who was already batting for the manga while the anime was running seem to place it on bottom, while there's a significant portion of fandom who never clicked with Super's mostly lighter, more compact storylines and find its more traditional long-form villain-centric format put it on top of both versions of Super combined. (And then, as I mentioned last page, fans who have never gone for the manga period and weren't moved to reconsider that stance at all.)

I don't know if that's fair criticism or at least very descriptive since it would be a short list of what storylines in DBS don't feel like published fanfiction. The Moro arc felt more like a longer version one of the old DBZ movies than something I'd expect or have only seen in fanfiction.

Ignoring the fanfiction comments, which I always find really disingenuous, I think the "extended DBZ movie" comments also feel a little disingenuous. While one could maybe draw parallels in its non-Toriyama villain design, the Earthling peanut gallery showing up for some minion fights (which is very tiresome IMO, but I know some people's favorite thing about the arc), and relatively no-frills, evil antagonist (though Moro is really only one good voice actor from feeling at least as well-characterized as the also-pretty-flat-on-the-page Cell), I think its basic structure runs closer to previous Super arcs than is often recognized--particularly in that it has tighter start-to-finish thematic focus than most of the original run (though not as tight as earlier Super arcs), and makes focused, substantial use of a guest characters as part of its heart (Merus).

One thing I'll say about the arc that I didn't touch on last page, as a personal opinion: It has probably my second favorite fight of Super next to UI Goku vs. Jiren in it, in UI Sign Goku vs. Moro. That's a lot of fun. In general the action is quite good (obviously not on par with the best of the original series, but that's a given), and I think it's probably the most consistent on that front of the first four arcs. (This post written just after Goku's first fight with Granolah, for posterity.)

[Skar]

Ignoring the fanfiction comments, which I always find really disingenuous, I think the "extended DBZ movie" comments also feel a little disingenuous. While one could maybe draw parallels in its non-Toriyama villain design, the Earthling peanut gallery showing up for some minion fights (which is very tiresome IMO, but I know some people's favorite thing about the arc), and relatively no-frills, evil antagonist (though Moro is really only one good voice actor from feeling at least as well-characterized as the also-pretty-flat-on-the-page Cell), I think its basic structure runs closer to previous Super arcs than is often recognized--particularly in that it has tighter start-to-finish thematic focus than most of the original run (though not as tight as earlier Super arcs), and makes focused, substantial use of a guest characters as part of its heart (Merus).

I didn't mean the comparison in a negative way since I enjoyed some of the original movies more than RoF and their antagonists more than some of the recent ones. I just meant in the sense of the villain being a clear reference to one from the original manga and has some alien henchmen for the other Z fighters to take on. I don't have many complaints about it to be honest and there wasn't really a frustrating moment that I thought "oh I can't believe this is being used officially now". I'm not a critic and probably easier to please than most people. I only judge it based on ​if I thought it was entertaining enough and if felt like they put some amount of effort into it. My main complaint might've Moro's design change not because it resembled Cell but because his demonic goat design was pretty cool.

I know there was criticism about the pacing but I think that's more to due with the manga being monthly. If they were to make an anime adaptation, it could be 20-something episodes so about as long as the movie retellings but far more source material to work with.

I tried googling to see some opinions of Moro. It varies so there might not be much of a general consensus until it gets an anime adaptation or Shuiesha has a poll. There was a guy named Totally Not Mark who considered it the best arc in DBS. I didn't watch the video so I'm not sure of his reasons.

[DiscountDabi]

Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.

To be fair Zamasu is less Morally Grey and More Incompetent Child with a God Complex but you do you.

[batistabus]

I thought it had a lot of great moments. At its worst, the arc was drawn out, derivative, and safe. I thought it was a fun ride overall.

I think the anime could salvage this arc getting rid of the stupid parts (Goku giving Moro a Senzu bean for one thing)

You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Sikat]

The consensus is it’s the best DBS arc.

I... really don't think this is true.

Well that’s certainly your opinion.

But from what I’ve seen, ask anybody to rank the DBS arcs and on average the Moro Arc will place in the top 3 if not #1 more often than not. So the general consensus is definitely the Moro Arc being the best DBS arc, or at the very least one of the best.

[batistabus]

The consensus is it’s the best DBS arc.

I... really don't think this is true.

Well that’s certainly your opinion.

But from what I’ve seen, ask anybody to rank the DBS arcs and on average the Moro Arc will place in the top 3 if not #1 more often than not. So the general consensus is definitely the Moro Arc being the best DBS arc, or at the very least one of the best.

I think that might be the consensus on Reddit and YouTube. Here and other forums...maybe not. There's also the opinions of people who aren't posting online, which can only be guessed at based on manga sales (which can be hard to interpret and get ahold of in certain regions).

[Sikat]

The question was what’s the general consensus, not what’s the opinion of a select few.

[SupremeKai25]

Terrible, terrible, generic, bland villain. You'd think Toriyama had learned how to make good, morally grey villains after Zamasu, turns out he hasn't. He couldn't even be bothered to explain Moro's origins, is there a more lazy and forgettable villain? Nope.

To be fair Zamasu is less Morally Grey and More Incompetent Child with a God Complex but you do you.

False, Zamasu is morally grey because he committed terrible crimes believing that they were for the greater good.

Plus he can't be incompetent since he pretty much killed everyone and required Zeno himself to be defeated for good.

[Skar]

False, Zamasu is morally grey because he committed terrible crimes believing that they were for the greater good.

Plus he can't be incompetent since he pretty much killed everyone and required Zeno himself to be defeated for good.

Can't there be just one thread that you don't derail by bringing up Zamasu? Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree if not everyone shares the same opinion about him as you.

[capsulecorp]

False, Zamasu is morally grey because he committed terrible crimes believing that they were for the greater good.

Plus he can't be incompetent since he pretty much killed everyone and required Zeno himself to be defeated for good.

Can't there be just one thread that you don't derail by bringing up Zamasu? Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree if not everyone shares the same opinion about him as you.

Yeah, I actually really disliked the entire Zamasu arc, it's a low point of Super and indeed the entire Dragon Ball story for me, personally. But it's ok if people disagree!

However, I do want to point out that "morally gray" is not in and of itself a good thing. "Morally gray" characters are not more interesting or compelling or unique than characters that are simply villainous....... however, Zamasu isn't "gray" anyway, there's nothing ambiguous about his goals or his methods. He's simply insane.

[SupremeKai25]

False, Zamasu is morally grey because he committed terrible crimes believing that they were for the greater good.

Plus he can't be incompetent since he pretty much killed everyone and required Zeno himself to be defeated for good.

Can't there be just one thread that you don't derail by bringing up Zamasu? Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree if not everyone shares the same opinion about him as you.

I have a better alternative for you, if you don't want to talk about Zamasu, why don't you just be quiet? You don't have to reply to me.

I brought up Zamasu because he's the only other DBS villain with a completed story arc, who should I compare Moro to? Do tell me.

[Skar]

I have a better alternative for you, if you don't want to talk about Zamasu, why don't you just be quiet? You don't have to reply to me.

I brought up Zamasu because he's the only other DBS villain with a completed story arc, who should I compare Moro to? Do tell me.

Well I'm not participating in any threads that have Zamasu in the title. I didn't really like the arc and already gave my opinion in the past. It would be nice to discuss other topics without you finding some way to bring up Zamasu and attacking anyone who doesn't have a high opinion of him. I usually ignore it but you do it in almost every thread I've seen you join. I'm not sure if the comparison was accurate since I recall Moro was Toyotaro's idea and might be the first antagonist he came up with since West Kaioshin and Xicor in AF.

[SupremeKai25]

I have a better alternative for you, if you don't want to talk about Zamasu, why don't you just be quiet? You don't have to reply to me.

I brought up Zamasu because he's the only other DBS villain with a completed story arc, who should I compare Moro to? Do tell me.

Well I'm not participating in any threads that have Zamasu in the title. I didn't really like the arc and already gave my opinion in the past. It would be nice to discuss other topics without you finding some way to bring up Zamasu and attacking anyone who doesn't have a high opinion of him. I usually ignore it but you do it in almost every thread I've seen you join. I'm not sure if the comparison was accurate since I recall Moro was Toyotaro's idea and might be the first antagonist he came up with since West Kaioshin and Xicor in AF.

Comparing Moro to the only other DBS villain with a completed story arc is not derailing in any way, shape, or form, and you're the one who attacked me if anything. Like I don't even know who you are, you're literally the one who replied to me.

So I will repeat to you what I told you earlier: If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, simply don't reply to me. It's not hard.

You could have given your opinion on this arc right now without flaming me, and everyone would have been happy, but you just had to reply to me for no reason other than to flame.

[Skar]

Comparing Moro to the only other DBS villain with a completed story arc is not derailing in any way, shape, or form, and you're the one who attacked me if anything. Like I don't even know who you are, you're literally the one who replied to me.

So I will repeat to you what I told you earlier: If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, simply don't reply to me. It's not hard.

You could have given your opinion on this arc right now without flaming me, and everyone would have been happy, but you just had to reply to me for no reason other than to flame.

Sorry you feel that way because I wasn't trying to flame you. We've discussed Zamasu before and gave my opinion why I didn't like the arc or the character. Since then I've avoided threads about Zamasu or ones that you derail and make them about the character since I didn't have much to add. I thought it was a harmless question to ask after seeing it happen so often but I'll go back to scrolling past your comments about Zamasu.