Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:51 pm

super michael wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:34 pm I would like for Uub, Goten and Trunks to be rivals and become the main characters along with Pan and Bra. It would be good to see the Cell Jrs involved in the story.
Is this a joke?!?!?
, an example is Digimon 02 the pairing was surprising.
It was a surprise because it came the fuck out of nowhere. That’s not a good thing.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by super michael » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:02 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:51 pm
super michael wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:34 pm I would like for Uub, Goten and Trunks to be rivals and become the main characters along with Pan and Bra. It would be good to see the Cell Jrs involved in the story.
Is this a joke?!?!?
, an example is Digimon 02 the pairing was surprising.
It was a surprise because it came the fuck out of nowhere. That’s not a good thing.
The Cell Juniors appeared in DBS Manga, they battled Goten and Trunks in the manga.

I guess for story writing Digimon 02 romance isn't good.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by Skar » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:42 pm

super michael wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:34 pm I would like for Uub, Goten and Trunks to be rivals and become the main characters along with Pan and Bra. It would be good to see the Cell Jrs involved in the story. As for romance just because they are the main group, it doesn't mean unexpected things can't happen, an example is Digimon 02 the pairing was surprising.

It would be good to use some elements from DBO.
Digimon 02 had a reason for why the first generation couldn't get involved since the Control Spires prevented them from Digivolving. I think the problem for DB is there really wouldn't be anything that would keep Goku and Vegeta out of the story for the next generation to have the spotlight. It could work for one short arc like how the Garlic Jr saga had Goku and Vegeta occupied off world but probably not for several arcs in a new series. When Goku and Vegeta were off world training in DBS, the rest of the cast only got to deal with weak henchmen until they returned against the main threat.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by emperior » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:34 am

Yes. I would love to see Uub’s training and possibly Goku recruiting other students so that Uub doesn’t train alone.
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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:24 am

On one hand, Uub has a shit ton of potential
On the other hand, so did Gohan
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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by BWri » Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:28 am

Skar wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:42 pm
super michael wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:34 pm I would like for Uub, Goten and Trunks to be rivals and become the main characters along with Pan and Bra. It would be good to see the Cell Jrs involved in the story. As for romance just because they are the main group, it doesn't mean unexpected things can't happen, an example is Digimon 02 the pairing was surprising.

It would be good to use some elements from DBO.
Digimon 02 had a reason for why the first generation couldn't get involved since the Control Spires prevented them from Digivolving. I think the problem for DB is there really wouldn't be anything that would keep Goku and Vegeta out of the story for the next generation to have the spotlight. It could work for one short arc like how the Garlic Jr saga had Goku and Vegeta occupied off world but probably not for several arcs in a new series. When Goku and Vegeta were off world training in DBS, the rest of the cast only got to deal with weak henchmen until they returned against the main threat.
They could start out with smaller threats, then branch out to exploring other universes. If its something like that, Goku and Vegeta don't need to be involved.

Goku and Vegeta could also be a goal for the next generation, kind of like Luke was in the 7th Star Wars movie. The journey could be to find them. We've seen that it's not incredibly difficult to incapacitate them, so they could even get captured if the story called for it.

There's really a ton of ways to write them out of the story. I think it takes more effort to write them into every story.
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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by LightBing » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:35 pm

For a long time now...

I loved the idea of exploring the lost decade but it's gone long enough with many boring developments. Mostly reusing old material(Freeza, Mirai Trunks, Broly...) even when the kickstart was brand new with interesting concepts like the multiverse, Hakaishins and Angels.

I want to see Oob and Pan gain importance. The first would even have the side-effect of making Goku more interesting, Super ignored Goku's goal of preparing the next gen which has made him for a flat and boring character.

Let's move forward.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by Skar » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:40 pm

BWri wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:28 amThey could start out with smaller threats, then branch out to exploring other universes. If its something like that, Goku and Vegeta don't need to be involved.

Goku and Vegeta could also be a goal for the next generation, kind of like Luke was in the 7th Star Wars movie. The journey could be to find them. We've seen that it's not incredibly difficult to incapacitate them, so they could even get captured if the story called for it.

There's really a ton of ways to write them out of the story. I think it takes more effort to write them into every story.
In other examples of the next generation, the old main characters are dead or pass the torch once they get too old. How would it work to incapacitate them? I could see it happening for a movie but not multiple arcs. Toriyama has always escalated the threats so I don't think he would be interested in "resetting" them just for the next generation.

I think DBO's timeline was the most Toriyama-like DBZ sequel since it subverts expectations of what most fans would assume would happen with the next generation based on other franchises. Instead of having many of their own adventures and strong opponents, nothing major happened except an attack from what's left of Freeza's army then everyone lived out their lives in peace.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by BWri » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:26 pm

Skar wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:40 pm
BWri wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:28 amThey could start out with smaller threats, then branch out to exploring other universes. If its something like that, Goku and Vegeta don't need to be involved.

Goku and Vegeta could also be a goal for the next generation, kind of like Luke was in the 7th Star Wars movie. The journey could be to find them. We've seen that it's not incredibly difficult to incapacitate them, so they could even get captured if the story called for it.

There's really a ton of ways to write them out of the story. I think it takes more effort to write them into every story.
In other examples of the next generation, the old main characters are dead or pass the torch once they get too old. How would it work to incapacitate them? I could see it happening for a movie but not multiple arcs.

It's worked before. Comas/slumbers are a thing as is freezing them in time/carbonite/dimensions/inescapable prisons ... tons of ways. And keep them on ice until the story needs them ... or have parallel stories. Goku and Vegeta's goofy yet dangerous training adventures and the protagonists doing their own thing with the "main" story. Goku and Vegeta's training is really a C plot extended across multiple arcs as if its an A plot, so just put it back in the C plot place.
Toriyama has always escalated the threats so I don't think he would be interested in "resetting" them just for the next generation.
If it's left up to Toriyama-san every plot will be the same variation of Goku fights the strongest guy ever which has already overstayed its welcome as threats need more and more contrived ways to reach this level. As with Torishima-san previously, he's open to good ideas for freshening things up as long as he can put his own spin on them. It was kind of mandatory with Torishima-san, but even with Toei and BoG, he was open to changing things up.

I do agree with you overall, but I think someone with brains could convince him to reset things, at least at the start of a new generation story.
I think DBO's timeline was the most Toriyama-like DBZ sequel since it subverts expectations of what most fans would assume would happen with the next generation based on other franchises. Instead of having many of their own adventures and strong opponents, nothing major happened except an attack from what's left of Freeza's army then everyone lived out their lives in peace.
I love that! I'm actually ready to move far beyond this cast. We seem to be rehashing the same stuff repeatedly with this group. As much as I like the characters and see potential in them, we aren't seeing much from with them or the world.
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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by Skar » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:04 pm

BWri wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:26 pmIt's worked before. Comas/slumbers are a thing as is freezing them in time/carbonite/dimensions/inescapable prisons ... tons of ways. And keep them on ice until the story needs them ... or have parallel stories. Goku and Vegeta's goofy yet dangerous training adventures and the protagonists doing their own thing with the "main" story. Goku and Vegeta's training is really a C plot extended across multiple arcs as if its an A plot, so just put it back in the C plot place.
In all the times Goku was out of the picture, he returned before the end of the arc and not gone for multiple arcs. The arcs are shorter in DBS and other Z fighters only fought henchmen before he arrived or they weren't involved at all. I'm not saying it can't be done just that it seems like more effort and risk than what they've been doing. We only know of the suggestions Toriyama decided to use some of the ones he rejected could've had similar ideas.
I love that! I'm actually ready to move far beyond this cast. We seem to be rehashing the same stuff repeatedly with this group. As much as I like the characters and see potential in them, we aren't seeing much from with them or the world.
I meant the timeline before it jumped ahead a few hundred years. The present day DBO/Xenoverse works for a video game but I don't think he want to do a sequel with completely new protagonists at his age.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by BWri » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:22 am

Skar wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:04 pm In all the times Goku was out of the picture, he returned before the end of the arc and not gone for multiple arcs. The arcs are shorter in DBS and other Z fighters only fought henchmen before he arrived or they weren't involved at all. I'm not saying it can't be done just that it seems like more effort and risk than what they've been doing. We only know of the suggestions Toriyama decided to use some of the ones he rejected could've had similar ideas.
I'm talking about fiction in general. There's easy ways to keep Goku and Vegeta out of the story. Extending their C plot into the main plot slot takes more mental effort than taking them out of the story in whatever way the writer wants.

It is riskier, but Dragon Ball as it is can only recycle its current tropes with a same characters so many times before its appeal diminishes. That's ultimately the greater risk when you think about it.
The present day DBO/Xenoverse works for a video game but I don't think he want to do a sequel with completely new protagonists at his age.
I think he'd be open to it if they presented the idea to him properly. Toriyama-san's career shows he's very malleable and his best work comes from collaboration.
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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:27 pm

BWri wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:22 amI'm talking about fiction in general. There's easy ways to keep Goku and Vegeta out of the story. Extending their C plot into the main plot slot takes more mental effort than taking them out of the story in whatever way the writer wants.

It is riskier, but Dragon Ball as it is can only recycle its current tropes with a same characters so many times before its appeal diminishes. That's ultimately the greater risk when you think about it.
I just think that if other franchises have done it and fans frequently suggest it then either Toriyama or Dragon Room would've considered these ideas at some point. I think we're already having diminishing returns with the current format and some fans thought it happened by the end of the original series. I personally don't mind if DBS ends once it reaches EoZ but I can understand some fans wanting more and to see the story continue past it.

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Re: Do you want to see Super tackle post Uub?

Post by BWri » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:02 pm

Skar wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:27 pm I think we're already having diminishing returns with the current format and some fans thought it happened by the end of the original series. I personally don't mind if DBS ends once it reaches EoZ but I can understand some fans wanting more and to see the story continue past it.
I 100% agree. I'm just along for the ride.
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