Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

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Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:37 am

Perfected UI Goku ought to have superior hand-to-hand combat skills than even the Hakaishin so had his current self been in the competition, would he have been able to win or last?
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Thani » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:01 am

Honestly? Yes. Ultra Instinct should keep Goku safe, if anything else, through most of the Battle Royale - it's not a contest of power, really, but of endurance.

As long as Goku keeps himself from taking too much damage, which UI excels at, he should be fine until it gets to a true 1v1. Hopefully by then he still has stamina left to remain in the state and his opponent would be battered enough to be defeated.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:12 pm

I think he should, at the very least, dodge more people and in a better way than Beerus. Also, I doubt he would be targeted by the 12 GoDs like Beerus was, so that would enhance his performance. Vermouth should lose, and probably a few other hakaishin as well, so I think he might make it to the final 5.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by BWri » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:21 pm

His only real competition would likely be Beerus and the Rat.
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:40 am

I think he could, against all but Jiren.
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Peach » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:50 pm

Yes. Beerus, the mouse, the clown, and champa would give him trouble, though.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Thani » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:15 pm

Everyone could give him trouble, I'd like to clarify. What I argue is that with UI he can likely survive the entire thing if it lasts long enough to keep him dodging and avoiding damage.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by batistabus » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm

I think so. He probably(?) wouldn't win, but he wouldn't be annihilated instantly. When Vegeta and Beerus sparred in that arc, Beerus says Vegeta would make a solid GoD candidate in another universe. Goku is much more capable than Vegeta was then.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Peach » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:22 pm

Thani wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:15 pm Everyone could give him trouble, I'd like to clarify. What I argue is that with UI he can likely survive the entire thing if it lasts long enough to keep him dodging and avoiding damage.
Sidra couldn't. The man was scared by Frieza and his Hakai couldn't destroy him. I doubt the elephant could either. He also seems weak.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:21 am

Peach wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:22 pmSidra couldn't. The man was scared by Frieza and his Hakai couldn't destroy him. I doubt the elephant could either. He also seems weak.
Those are different continuities. In the manga, the Hakaishin aren't depicted as being a whole lot stronger than each other in the way that the anime seems to portray them. The battle royale between them was such a brutal beatdown that they all looked awfully bloodied & bruised by the end of it(save for Belmod faking being unconscious).
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:32 am

No. Belmod would one-shot him.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Thani » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:26 am

theherodjl wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:21 am
Peach wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:22 pmSidra couldn't. The man was scared by Frieza and his Hakai couldn't destroy him. I doubt the elephant could either. He also seems weak.
Those are different continuities. In the manga, the Hakaishin aren't depicted as being a whole lot stronger than each other in the way that the anime seems to portray them. The battle royale between them was such a brutal beatdown that they all looked awfully bloodied & bruised by the end of it(save for Belmod faking being unconscious).
Even then, Sidra's hakai was just a tiny fraction of his ki and yet Freeza had to exert himself (in Golden, even) to subdue it. It's very, very likely he just underestimated his target (and considering U9's best fighters were the Trio of Danger, who are wholy out of their depth in the tournament, it makes a lot of sense - they're Sidra's reference for strong mortals, after all). It's not a stretch to believe Beerus could dispel it so easily (and it's a testament of how superior he is to both Freeza and Goku still).

Him being scared of Freeza also don't mean much beyond that Sidra and Rou find the tyrant terrifying - which, well, he is - and even Sidra's profile characterized him as "passive". His mindset is just milder than the other GoD's so he scare easier, but that's no testament about his power.

Basically even the anime justified why some Gods of Destruction seemed worse than others, but they're overall in the same ballpark.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by BWri » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:14 pm

I just think Beerus and his rival are head and shoulders above the rest thanks to the weird promotional statements we keep getting regarding mortal character strength. Jiren has to be stronger than some of the GoDs due to statements (at least his own GoD). Beerus is stronger than Jiren due to current arcs. All GoDs are thusly not the same strength level. If Jiren surpassed his god during the ToP then Goku has clearly surpassed him as well by the Granolah arc.

Then, of course, Beerus briefly fought all GoDs at once and by the end nearly won the melee (or at least tied for it). If Belmod is the weakest GoD, then Goku is at least stronger than him, but logically from what I've seen of that fight and later fights, Goku likely the 2nd or 3rd best/strongest fighter among the GoDs, behind Beerus and maybe Quitela. The other GoDs didn't appear that far off from Belmod.

Champa is the only one I can't place. He was once stated to be just behind Beerus, but he was basically Beerus' plaything in that fight. So I think he's in the same tier as the other GoDs that aren't Beerus or Quitela. This pretty much convinces me that Beerus has been training in the background. Maybe his rivalry with Quitela pushes him, along with Goku and Vegeta's progress. It's possibly what pushes Quitela as well.
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Thani » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:58 am

BWri wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:14 pm I just think Beerus and his rival are head and shoulders above the rest thanks to the weird promotional statements we keep getting regarding mortal character strength. Jiren has to be stronger than some of the GoDs due to statements (at least his own GoD). Beerus is stronger than Jiren due to current arcs. All GoDs are thusly not the same strength level. If Jiren surpassed his god during the ToP then Goku has clearly surpassed him as well by the Granolah arc.

Then, of course, Beerus briefly fought all GoDs at once and by the end nearly won the melee (or at least tied for it). If Belmod is the weakest GoD, then Goku is at least stronger than him, but logically from what I've seen of that fight and later fights, Goku likely the 2nd or 3rd best/strongest fighter among the GoDs, behind Beerus and maybe Quitela. The other GoDs didn't appear that far off from Belmod.

Champa is the only one I can't place. He was once stated to be just behind Beerus, but he was basically Beerus' plaything in that fight. So I think he's in the same tier as the other GoDs that aren't Beerus or Quitela. This pretty much convinces me that Beerus has been training in the background. Maybe his rivalry with Quitela pushes him, along with Goku and Vegeta's progress. It's possibly what pushes Quitela as well.
I think we're exaggerating how things went in the Battle Royale. Beerus didn't fight all the GoD's at once, he dodged them with his incomplete Ultra Instinct - as he should since it's, well, Ultra Instinct. It only lasted a while until he was caught by Mosco. He struggled severely to escape from Mosco's grip just on time to avoid the attacks from the others, and blasted Champa in the air while everyone was distracted to serve as a decoy. Then he launched a blast at those gods, that was negated fairly easily by Sidra.

After that the Battle Royale took a turn for the chaotic, with every GoD displaying their techniques on one another - even Beerus was left paralysed and helpless by Rumuush's roar.

In the end, Beerus and Quitela, already seriously damaged, managed to take out their opponents at that time and changed their attentions to one another. Then the Grand Priest intervened.

It was not as one sided as people are claiming.

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by BWri » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:27 pm

Thani wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:58 am I think we're exaggerating how things went in the Battle Royale. Beerus didn't fight all the GoD's at once, he dodged them with his incomplete Ultra Instinct - as he should since it's, well, Ultra Instinct. It only lasted a while until he was caught by Mosco. He struggled severely to escape from Mosco's grip just on time to avoid the attacks from the others, and blasted Champa in the air while everyone was distracted to serve as a decoy. Then he launched a blast at those gods, that was negated fairly easily by Sidra.

After that the Battle Royale took a turn for the chaotic, with every GoD displaying their techniques on one another - even Beerus was left paralysed and helpless by Rumuush's roar.

In the end, Beerus and Quitela, already seriously damaged, managed to take out their opponents at that time and changed their attentions to one another. Then the Grand Priest intervened.

It was not as one sided as people are claiming.
Fair enough. I don't see anything wrong with your reading. I just don't read it like that. I think enough is communicated to give us the impression that Beerus is the superior combatant here. I'll grant you that he did not completely outclass the field at the time, at least not to the point of one-shot all his foes like Jiren could have during the ToP, but he's the best fighter there, likely hand in hand with him being the strongest.

Him dodging three GoDs at the last minute while in Mosco's grip appeared to be a speed feat to the point everyone had completely lost track of Beerus and he was able to switch places with Champa. It's unclear how he managed to get Champa airborne, but its clear that his method was fast enough to avoid the detection of all the others, quite impressive as Champa was literally next to Arak attacking Mosco in one panel and all the way in the air in the next panel. After launching an attack that was fast enough to send Champa airborne AND launch him back towards the ground, Beerus still had enough time to hide under Mosco, all without anyone seeing him. Kind of insane.

As far as Sidra's barrier goes, we all know that barriers allow defensive capabilities above a fighter's level. The best proof of this is half-dead Babidi who was able to survive Vegeta's Final Explosion which nearly decimated Buu. With the look on the GoDs faces prior to Sidra using his barrier, they looked like they were dead meat (Gin and Arak in particular).

For Rumsshi's roar, it's not really stated how strong you have to be to avoid its effects. The angels appear to be unaffected, but besides being so far removed strength-wise from the GoDs, they are also not at the epicenter of the attack like the GoDs are. The only threshold we can logically assume avoids its affects is to be at an angel's level of power, which even now Beerus is not.
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:48 am

Thani wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:58 am
BWri wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:14 pm I just think Beerus and his rival are head and shoulders above the rest thanks to the weird promotional statements we keep getting regarding mortal character strength. Jiren has to be stronger than some of the GoDs due to statements (at least his own GoD). Beerus is stronger than Jiren due to current arcs. All GoDs are thusly not the same strength level. If Jiren surpassed his god during the ToP then Goku has clearly surpassed him as well by the Granolah arc.

Then, of course, Beerus briefly fought all GoDs at once and by the end nearly won the melee (or at least tied for it). If Belmod is the weakest GoD, then Goku is at least stronger than him, but logically from what I've seen of that fight and later fights, Goku likely the 2nd or 3rd best/strongest fighter among the GoDs, behind Beerus and maybe Quitela. The other GoDs didn't appear that far off from Belmod.

Champa is the only one I can't place. He was once stated to be just behind Beerus, but he was basically Beerus' plaything in that fight. So I think he's in the same tier as the other GoDs that aren't Beerus or Quitela. This pretty much convinces me that Beerus has been training in the background. Maybe his rivalry with Quitela pushes him, along with Goku and Vegeta's progress. It's possibly what pushes Quitela as well.
I think we're exaggerating how things went in the Battle Royale. Beerus didn't fight all the GoD's at once, he dodged them with his incomplete Ultra Instinct - as he should since it's, well, Ultra Instinct. It only lasted a while until he was caught by Mosco. He struggled severely to escape from Mosco's grip just on time to avoid the attacks from the others, and blasted Champa in the air while everyone was distracted to serve as a decoy. Then he launched a blast at those gods, that was negated fairly easily by Sidra.

After that the Battle Royale took a turn for the chaotic, with every GoD displaying their techniques on one another - even Beerus was left paralysed and helpless by Rumuush's roar.

In the end, Beerus and Quitela, already seriously damaged, managed to take out their opponents at that time and changed their attentions to one another. Then the Grand Priest intervened.

It was not as one sided as people are claiming.
Exactly.
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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Nevaeh » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 am

Goku clears. Scaling the other gods with Beerus is tricky because they don't have the plot armor he does and thus don't have access to his plot based powerups

Current scaling suggests Belmod would break his hand trying to punch Beerus whereas in 2017 he was able to draw blood :lol:

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Re: Could Current Goku Have Held His Own In The Hakaishin Battle Royale?

Post by Thani » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:44 am

Nevaeh wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 am Goku clears. Scaling the other gods with Beerus is tricky because they don't have the plot armor he does and thus don't have access to his plot based powerups

Current scaling suggests Belmod would break his hand trying to punch Beerus whereas in 2017 he was able to draw blood :lol:
Yeah, Toyotaro dropped the ball hard with that. Unless he comes out and explain that UI's "hardening" thing is beyond what Beerus can do, this is a very valid interpretation of what would happen if Belmod tried to punch Beerus.

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