The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

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GodVegetto91
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The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:28 pm

In the Anime, things were always a lot more simple.. We were always led to believe that ever since Goku and Vegeta first achieved SSJ God and SSJ Blue (as early as the Resurrection F Arc for them both at least)… They possessed aswell as had the ability to sense Godly Chi…

Okay fine..

But the Manga has always approached this topic a bit more differently..

In the Manga, things were not as clear cut and simple as they seem in the Anime for instance..

While it’s true that Goku did “obtain” God Ki in his SSJ God form… (confirmed by Piccolo) and then later it’s very strongly assumed that he has it in SSJ Blue aswell..

He apparently did NOT have the ability to sense it…

As confirmed when Goku stated to Toppo (after their fight) that he “couldn’t sense Toppo’s Godly Chi…”

(Even though he just fought him in both SSJ God and Blue forms..!)

So he apparently has it but can’t sense it..

Okay fine.

The answer is clear to that..

But then later in the Moro Arc, it’s “somewhat vaguely implied” that Goku and Vegeta may not have God Ki at all….!

As only Goku’s Ultra Instinct Sign stage (and above) are implied to have any real “God Ki”…

Which, again, implies that SSJ God, Blue, and Blue Evo all don’t have God Ki..

(Even though it was stated earlier that SSJ God at least had God Ki!!!)

So is this a complete retcon?

Or do they actually mean that the ‘God Ki’ of these 3 lower ‘God forms’ are not true genuine God ki but of a lower type..

And that only UI and Hakai have ‘True God Ki’…

So now it seems that we have 2 different versions of ‘God ki’…

One mortal, one divine.

One that belongs to mortals.

The other one that belongs to Gods!

‘Mortal God Ki’ would thus belong to SSJ God, Blue, and Blue Evo..

While ‘Deity God Ki’ would belong to Gods or mortals that have mastered Godly techniques like Goku and Vegeta now have..

Vegeta stated on Planet Yardrat earlier (POST training!) that he couldn’t sense UI Sign Goku’s “Godly Chi”… And that only “Gods” can sense it..

But now as of this latest chapter from today..

It seems that even Base Goku can now sense Vegeta’s “Godly Chi”…!

Come to think of it, he could sense Uub’s “God Power” aswell in Base form after having lost nearly all of his energy while being squashed by Earth Moro’s hands!

So Base Goku can sense Godly Chi now…

Cool!

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:31 pm

Another thing this chapter has confirmed is that apparently Goku and Vegeta right now do NOT have God Ki in their Base forms… (As I made a thread speculating about that earlier here on Kanzenshuu.)

I was under the impression that both Goku and Vegeta possessed Godly Ki in Base form now.. (As they have both access to Godly Techniques in Base form now..)

UI and Hakai…

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Sikat » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:28 pm So Base Goku can sense Godly Chi now…
No. Goku, and Vegeta, are just familiar with the presence by now.

Only gods can sense godly chi.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Krillin1994 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:42 pm

Sikat wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:28 pm So Base Goku can sense Godly Chi now…
No. Goku, and Vegeta, are just familiar with the presence by now.

Only gods can sense godly chi.
Goku says while in base it’s God ki but not any old God ki. So he’s sensed Vegeta’s God Ki and sensed that it’s not it’s usual one for Blue.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 am

Sikat wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:28 pm So Base Goku can sense Godly Chi now…
No. Goku, and Vegeta, are just familiar with the presence by now.

Only gods can sense godly chi.
Headcanon.

False.

Goku literally said he could feel that it’s God Ki.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Sikat » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:09 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 am
Sikat wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:28 pm So Base Goku can sense Godly Chi now…
No. Goku, and Vegeta, are just familiar with the presence by now.

Only gods can sense godly chi.
Headcanon.

False.

Goku literally said he could feel that it’s God Ki.
You don’t really know anything about this franchise.

Feel =/= Sense

Base Goku has stated numerous times he can’t sense the chi of god - nobody besides other gods can.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:16 am

Sikat wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:09 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 am
Sikat wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm
No. Goku, and Vegeta, are just familiar with the presence by now.

Only gods can sense godly chi.
Headcanon.

False.

Goku literally said he could feel that it’s God Ki.
You don’t really know anything about this franchise.

Feel =/= Sense

Base Goku has stated numerous times he can’t sense the chi of god - nobody besides other gods can.
Mind your language here.. This is Kanzenshuu. Who gives you the right to tell me that “I don’t know anything about Dragon Ball.”

Goku clearly stated on 2 occasions that he could sense Godly Chi..

Once in Base form about Uub’s Energy Ball… And another time about Vegeta’s Godly Chi…

And he clearly acquired this ability after unlocking the ability to tap into the Silver haired Ultra Instinct on his own against Moro 73.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:25 am

I thought they could both sense god ki since the moment they obtained it, regardless of the form.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Sikat » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:52 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:16 am Goku clearly stated on 2 occasions that he could sense the chi of a god
Post the scan then. Post Goku, not in his god form, saying those exact words - that he can sense the chi of a god.
mute_proxy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:25 am I thought they could both sense the chi of a god
Base (non-god) Goku and Vegeta cannot.

Image

They are familiar with the presence, which explains Goku’s comment, but they cannot sense it.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:12 pm

Sikat wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:52 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:16 am Goku clearly stated on 2 occasions that he could sense the chi of a god
Post the scan then. Post Goku, not in his god form, saying those exact words - that he can sense the chi of a god.
mute_proxy wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:25 am I thought they could both sense the chi of a god
Base (non-god) Goku and Vegeta cannot.

Image

They are familiar with the presence, which explains Goku’s comment, but they cannot sense it.
Are you seriously trying me out??

Image

Image

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Sikat » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:04 pm

Uh. Thanks for proving me right, and Goku never states he can sense it?

Once more, feel =/= sense.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:52 pm

I’m won’t state my position in this thread yet, since this is a subject that rarely has consistence, but, to be fair, feel and sense have been used interchangeably when it comes to detect someone’s ki on multiple occasions.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:14 pm

Yeah, maybe Cipher could add something to this discussion, but I think usually the japanese verb used for these kind of things is KANJIRU, so unless Toyo is deviating from that and using some other verb, then sensing and feeling are the same thing.

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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:07 am

Two account strikes and temporary bans have been issued.

Thanks to those for contributing some worthwhile context and points regarding the language used here.
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Re: The ‘God Ki’ debate a bit more clarified (possessing it + sensing it.)

Post by batistabus » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:33 am

My interpretation is as follows: originally he could not sense it. Eventually, while he could still not fully read or understand it, he was able to identify the presence of God ki. At this point in the story, I think he can sense it pretty much like normal ki.

That's just my reading of the scenes mentioned above. I think it makes sense. Throughout Super, Goku/Vegeta's mastery of god ki has steadily grown. There's no need to spell out that ability as an "AHA!" moment because the progress is obvious in other ways. I don't remember is being made explicit when the non-Crane School members of the Dragon Team suddenly started flying.

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