I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by precita » Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:39 pm

The "Super" name doesn't need to be dropped or rebranded.

We had Dragonball and DBZ for the first two series, then GT.

Super reflects everything new about the series, and you have subtitled like Heroes for the videogame-centric stuff. The last thing we need is more confusing subtitles for new "canon" material like "Dragonball Extreme" or whatever other nonsense name they could use.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:00 pm

The movie may well be the chronological end of the Super era (i.e., it may be the last thing to happen in-continuity before the 28th Budokai), but that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be further linking arcs between the Granolah arc and the movie, even after its release.

It's worth recalling that Victory Uchida mentioned that the Granolah arc was just one of the arc ideas taken from a shortlist of 3 arc concepts, from a longlist of 10. If they really wanted to develop any of these other ideas, they could keep Super running for years and years.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm

As much as I generally try to avoid bumping my own threads, I have to ask: do people really think there are anymore interesting places for the franchise to go? We’ve brought back Freeza twice, brought back Future Trunks in an arc that has an evil Kaioshin and an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament where the entire universe is at stake, and now we have a guy who wants revenge on Freeza and the Saiyans. Oh, and Vegeta is now basically a God. Where else is there to go?

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:52 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm As much as I generally try to avoid bumping my own threads, I have to ask: do people really think there are anymore interesting places for the franchise to go? We’ve brought back Freeza twice, brought back Future Trunks in an arc that has an evil Kaioshin and an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament where the entire universe is at stake, and now we have a guy who wants revenge on Freeza and the Saiyans. Oh, and Vegeta is now basically a God. Where else is there to go?
Yes. I'm interested in character interactions and building stories from there.
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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:02 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:52 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm As much as I generally try to avoid bumping my own threads, I have to ask: do people really think there are anymore interesting places for the franchise to go? We’ve brought back Freeza twice, brought back Future Trunks in an arc that has an evil Kaioshin and an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament where the entire universe is at stake, and now we have a guy who wants revenge on Freeza and the Saiyans. Oh, and Vegeta is now basically a God. Where else is there to go?
Yes. I'm interested in character interactions and building stories from there.
Any ideas in particular?

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:58 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:02 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:52 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm As much as I generally try to avoid bumping my own threads, I have to ask: do people really think there are anymore interesting places for the franchise to go? We’ve brought back Freeza twice, brought back Future Trunks in an arc that has an evil Kaioshin and an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament where the entire universe is at stake, and now we have a guy who wants revenge on Freeza and the Saiyans. Oh, and Vegeta is now basically a God. Where else is there to go?
Yes. I'm interested in character interactions and building stories from there.
Any ideas in particular?
Dragon Ball is something of a rule breaker as a work but as a result of that attitude it has formed its own 'rules'. Which is to say, instead of being counter-culture it is simply...culture. Resultingly, breaking those rules becomes fresh for the franchise. With this in mind, a story and character I've wanted to see return for quite a while now is Raditz. A rule for Dragon Ball is "eh, family drama isn't a thing", therefore to break that rule...you make a family drama. I say bring in Tullece as Bardock's younger brother, have him get to know and manipulate Goten (who is having a petulant, immature tiff with Gohan) after crashing on Earth. Goten--by informing Tullece of the Dragon Balls--inevitably and unwittingly helps Tullece enact his revenge on his older brother, Bardock, who left him for dead because Tullece was so sadistic and Gine was afraid of that wearing off on Raditz. This way we get to see the tension between three generations of family members all at once and how they all deal with that tension. It's also a fun way to just bring Raditz, Bardock and Gine back into the present and see the way they'd interact with Gokuu and the others because there'd be a variating number of character interactions. A running theme of "interactions between brothers, fathers, sons and wives", if you will.

It's also a nice way to tie into how Bardock was growing weary of the Saiyan way of life in Movie #20.
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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:17 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:58 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:02 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:52 pm

Yes. I'm interested in character interactions and building stories from there.
Any ideas in particular?
Dragon Ball is something of a rule breaker as a work but as a result of that attitude it has formed its own 'rules'. Which is to say, instead of being counter-culture it is simply...culture. Resultingly, breaking those rules becomes fresh for the franchise. With this in mind, a story and character I've wanted to see return for quite a while now is Raditz. A rule for Dragon Ball is "eh, family drama isn't a thing", therefore to break that rule...you make a family drama. I say bring in Tullece as Bardock's younger brother, have him get to know and manipulate Goten (who is having a petulant, immature tiff with Gohan) after crashing on Earth. Goten--by informing Tullece of the Dragon Balls--inevitably and unwittingly helps Tullece enact his revenge on his older brother, Bardock, who left him for dead because Tullece was so sadistic and Gine was afraid of that wearing off on Raditz. This way we get to see the tension between three generations of family members all at once and how they all deal with that tension. It's also a fun way to just bring Raditz, Bardock and Gine back into the present and see the way they'd interact with Gokuu and the others because there'd be a variating number of character interactions. A running theme of "interactions between brothers, fathers, sons and wives", if you will.

It's also a nice way to tie into how Bardock was growing weary of the Saiyan way of life in Movie #20.
You hope that Tullece is the UNEXPECTED character in the new film?
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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:48 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:17 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:58 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:02 pm

Any ideas in particular?
Dragon Ball is something of a rule breaker as a work but as a result of that attitude it has formed its own 'rules'. Which is to say, instead of being counter-culture it is simply...culture. Resultingly, breaking those rules becomes fresh for the franchise. With this in mind, a story and character I've wanted to see return for quite a while now is Raditz. A rule for Dragon Ball is "eh, family drama isn't a thing", therefore to break that rule...you make a family drama. I say bring in Tullece as Bardock's younger brother, have him get to know and manipulate Goten (who is having a petulant, immature tiff with Gohan) after crashing on Earth. Goten--by informing Tullece of the Dragon Balls--inevitably and unwittingly helps Tullece enact his revenge on his older brother, Bardock, who left him for dead because Tullece was so sadistic and Gine was afraid of that wearing off on Raditz. This way we get to see the tension between three generations of family members all at once and how they all deal with that tension. It's also a fun way to just bring Raditz, Bardock and Gine back into the present and see the way they'd interact with Gokuu and the others because there'd be a variating number of character interactions. A running theme of "interactions between brothers, fathers, sons and wives", if you will.

It's also a nice way to tie into how Bardock was growing weary of the Saiyan way of life in Movie #20.
You hope that Tullece is the UNEXPECTED character in the new film?
I doubt this would happen in this film. I just made up a story I thought would be interesting.

The 'unexpected' character for Movie #21 is likely Pan.
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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Majin Buu » Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:50 pm

I was thinking the other day that for going beyond EoZ, it would be kinda cool for Super to do a retelling of GT (a "Dragon Ball Super GT" if you will) , one that takes Super's plot developments into account. For example, Super Saiyan 4 still happens, but it's discovered through a chance combination of god ki and Goku using it in Oozaru form after getting his tail back, or something like that (much would have to be worked around or outright changed).

It would be a nice way to redeem GT by giving some of those badly executed good ideas another shot with Super's storytelling conventions and everything that could bring to the table. We could get something that's similar in the broad strokes but with better execution of story concepts, or end up with something radically different in the best (or worst, to be honest about the very real possibility of it being screwed up again) way.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Skar » Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:31 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:06 pm As much as I generally try to avoid bumping my own threads, I have to ask: do people really think there are anymore interesting places for the franchise to go? We’ve brought back Freeza twice, brought back Future Trunks in an arc that has an evil Kaioshin and an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament where the entire universe is at stake, and now we have a guy who wants revenge on Freeza and the Saiyans. Oh, and Vegeta is now basically a God. Where else is there to go?
That's what I've felt for a while. They've been building up to Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus since BoG. If there was a different endgame in mind, I think Toriyama would've had them surpass Beerus by now and move on to the next thing. Instead they were implied to be at the level of a God of Destruction in the ToP or at least above some of them but not Beerus yet.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:46 pm

It probably won't happen because the series is still selling well and there's no signs of a burn out happening yet.
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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by HeroR » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:24 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:46 pm It probably won't happen because the series is still selling well and there's no signs of a burn out happening yet.
Yes and no. They're selling well off the remains of the anime, not the manga that has no merch outside of nods. Like something as simple as Super Saiyan Black has no card in Heroes and all the manga exclusive arcs are outright ignored. And the manga itself isn't selling as well as it used to since it's pretty niche.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Xeogran » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:36 am

Majin Buu wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:50 pm It would be a nice way to redeem GT
They don't need to "redeem" anything just because of some whiners on the Internet. Toriyama himself enjoyed the series, and it's nowhere in his mind to remake it.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:15 pm

HeroR wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:24 am
Hellspawn28 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:46 pm It probably won't happen because the series is still selling well and there's no signs of a burn out happening yet.
Yes and no. They're selling well off the remains of the anime, not the manga that has no merch outside of nods. Like something as simple as Super Saiyan Black has no card in Heroes and all the manga exclusive arcs are outright ignored. And the manga itself isn't selling as well as it used to since it's pretty niche.
Not just that but none of the manga-exclusive characters (as of now) appear in any videogame.

For example, Xenoverse 2 recently added shirtless Jiren instead of Moro (any of his forms) or Merus. Despite the fact that the Moro arc has been over for like 8 months now. Meanwhile 8 months after the Future Trunks arc, Xenoverse 2 already had Goku Black (Base), Zamasu, Goku Black (Rosé), Fused Zamasu, Vegito Blue, etc. etc. etc. Yet there's still nothing from the Moro arc.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Xeogran wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:36 am They don't need to "redeem" anything just because of some whiners on the Internet. Toriyama himself enjoyed the series, and it's nowhere in his mind to remake it.
Never said there was a "need" for GT to be redeemed, just that doing this would be a cool way to do so.

Because even fans who don't completely despise GT view it as a very flawed continuation with good ideas that weren't executed very well. Toriyama may have enjoyed it, but the general consensus is that it was lacking.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Xeogran » Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:54 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:02 pm Never said there was a "need" for GT to be redeemed, just that doing this would be a cool way to do so.

Because even fans who don't completely despise GT view it as a very flawed continuation with good ideas that weren't executed very well. Toriyama may have enjoyed it, but the general consensus is that it was lacking.
It's a series for kids, it doesn't need to be 100% executed well. Literally each DB series has it's own flaws and that's what makes the adventure fun. Even if they remade it as you say, it would have new kind of flaws replacing the old ones. Super ain't perfect either, and it's from modern times.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:38 pm

Xeogran wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:54 pm It's a series for kids, it doesn't need to be 100% executed well. Literally each DB series has it's own flaws and that's what makes the adventure fun. Even if they remade it as you say, it would have new kind of flaws replacing the old ones. Super ain't perfect either, and it's from modern times.
Yes, nothing is flawless; but certain flaws can kill enjoyment of a work for people depending on the flaws in question, and a lot of people view GT as too flawed to be enjoyable as a whole (and guess what, some view Super the same way).

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:17 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:15 pm
HeroR wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:24 am
Hellspawn28 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:46 pm It probably won't happen because the series is still selling well and there's no signs of a burn out happening yet.
Yes and no. They're selling well off the remains of the anime, not the manga that has no merch outside of nods. Like something as simple as Super Saiyan Black has no card in Heroes and all the manga exclusive arcs are outright ignored. And the manga itself isn't selling as well as it used to since it's pretty niche.
Not just that but none of the manga-exclusive characters (as of now) appear in any videogame.

For example, Xenoverse 2 recently added shirtless Jiren instead of Moro (any of his forms) or Merus. Despite the fact that the Moro arc has been over for like 8 months now. Meanwhile 8 months after the Future Trunks arc, Xenoverse 2 already had Goku Black (Base), Zamasu, Goku Black (Rosé), Fused Zamasu, Vegito Blue, etc. etc. etc. Yet there's still nothing from the Moro arc.
Not just video games, but also the official Dragon Ball Super Card Game. They have stuff from everything Dragon Ball, including Dr. Rachi and stuff from Movie 2, but no Dragon Ball Super manga content. TOP is also a fan-favorite.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:22 am

HeroR wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:17 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:15 pm
HeroR wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:24 am

Yes and no. They're selling well off the remains of the anime, not the manga that has no merch outside of nods. Like something as simple as Super Saiyan Black has no card in Heroes and all the manga exclusive arcs are outright ignored. And the manga itself isn't selling as well as it used to since it's pretty niche.
Not just that but none of the manga-exclusive characters (as of now) appear in any videogame.

For example, Xenoverse 2 recently added shirtless Jiren instead of Moro (any of his forms) or Merus. Despite the fact that the Moro arc has been over for like 8 months now. Meanwhile 8 months after the Future Trunks arc, Xenoverse 2 already had Goku Black (Base), Zamasu, Goku Black (Rosé), Fused Zamasu, Vegito Blue, etc. etc. etc. Yet there's still nothing from the Moro arc.
Not just video games, but also the official Dragon Ball Super Card Game. They have stuff from everything Dragon Ball, including Dr. Rachi and stuff from Movie 2, but no Dragon Ball Super manga content. TOP is also a fan-favorite.
Why don't they just start putting in manga-only content? Because it hasn't been animated yet? But don't other Shonen start making videogame characters even before they first appear in animation?

I mean certainly the problem can't be that they can't find a voice actor or something like that, so why can't they just start putting Moro arc characters in the game? Plenty of people liked the Old Moro so I'm sure he'd be popular in videogames (as an old crippled warlock at least instead of Perfect Cell 2.0).

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Re: I hope the next movie is the end of the Super era

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:38 pm

I don’t buy the idea that DBS is too big to end. It’s been winding down ever since the most recent movie. It’s still going, but not at the same speed as it was five years ago.

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