"Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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LoganForkHands73
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"Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:28 pm

Throughout the Universe Survival arc, Zeno and the Grand Priest allude several times that there may be a "next time" after the Tournament of Power. Though Zeno is satisfied by the tournament's conclusion, he seems to have some vague plans for the future, such as when the Grand Priest promises to upgrade the specs of the GodPad at a later date when Universe 11's Dyspo proves too fast for the slow-mo functionality to keep up with his movement.

While Dragon Ball Super has been criticised for having "too many tournament arcs", (though two is hardly that many compared to the original manga and anime) I'm starting to have doubts that we'll have something as straightforward as a 'Tournament of Power 2'. While it's entirely possible that we may get another tournament of some description, I would take a guess that the format would be different to the last two. Both multiversal tournaments had very different formats to past Tenkaichi Budokai-inspired events. The Tournament of Destroyers had a team-based winner-stays-on formula, which allowed for unique shenanigans. Then the Tournament of Power was barely even a conventional tournament at all, just a massive single round battle royale. What could be next?

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Zeno, above all, demands entertainment from his mortal and godly subjects, but he also liked to see them work together to improve their universes. Perhaps he sets up a more complex gauntlet-style challenge where the universe champions have to cooperate together -- rather than compete -- against a series of greater opponent. Maybe it'll involve characters from the six unseen universes that may or may not have been revived by #17's wish... I hope we eventually get a reveal that the multiverse is actually larger than we were lead to believe, renewing that sense of excitement from when Beerus first revealed other universes existed to Goku years ago.

However... I wouldn't get my hopes up. As has been more broadly discussed here in other threads, it seems as though Super's initial focus on larger scale storylines involving parallel universes has fell by the wayside, as the last several storylines have scaled back to focusing on conflicts set in Universe 7 alone. While it's too early to say, based on the track record and talk of it being a relatively low-stakes slice-of-life flick, it doesn't seem Toriyama's upcoming Superhero movie will change that either. With his greater input into the Super manga's story direction, Toyotaro has implied in interviews that he too is less interested in exploring other universes for the time being, instead electing for the Granola arc to focus on Saiyan revenge drama in U7 once again. However, as he has many potential arc ideas on the backburner, this could change.

To weigh myself in, I've said my unpopular opinion before that most basic "multiverse exploration" arc concepts have limited appeal. Many people have talked about the always on-the-horizon Planet Sadala arc, but no one ever seems to have any idea what the story would be beyond Goku and Vegeta visiting Sadala and presumably meeting the King as promised... Okay, then what? Same goes for any expectation of Goku travelling to other universes, it's like, for what reason? Part of the problem with the Moro arc in my opinion was that it lacked much in the way of clear justified objectives for the characters and plot beyond the paper-thin "ancient wizard appears to fuck shit up", and as such felt meandering and generic. There were small flickers in the darkness, such as the mystery of Merus, Goku and Vegeta's divergent training arcs, and the hype of the climax, but it only barely scraped some redemption with those. Compare it to the Goku Black arc, which had a similar set-up of a powerful threat randomly appearing, but also weaved compelling motivations, mysteries and backstories for the new and returning cast from the start without wasting too much momentum (admittedly, more true for the manga than the "let's retreat from the present and future three or four times in a row" anime). I have my reservations with the Granola arc, but I respect Toyotaro for pushing forward with a story he personally wants to tell, while also collaborating more with Toriyama to improve the story structure and character motivations to make it all "1000x better".

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The Tournament of Power on paper had a pretty braindead premise as well, with Toriyama giving his vaguest outline yet of "an 80-man jumble brawl", but still had a thematically tight story with many moving pieces -- Goku embracing Ultra Instinct, the strained alliance with Freeza, and other characters like #17, Jiren and Kale getting fair shares of focus and development.

So do I think the better alternative is more tournament arcs? Not necessarily, but I'm not completely against the idea either, so long as something interesting or different is brought to the table. I loved the previous tournaments after all, and historically, tournament arcs are designed like checkpoints to showcase how much stronger the Super-Warriors have gotten since the last event, while also giving us as many cool fights and interactions as possible.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by Skar » Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:03 pm

I always liked tournament arcs so I wouldn't mind having another one although with a different format. Maybe something like the movie Battle Royale or HxH's Zevil Island with a bigger location than the ToP. I think tournaments are the only the universes are going to interact since the only other time was Beerus traveling to U10 to prevent Gowasu's death.

The universes are setup that their own gods govern them so it's unlikely that Goku and Vegeta would be asked to solve a problem there. The only way to travel there is with Shin's teleportation or the Godtube so it's probably not allowed for mortals to travel between them on their own. I think the ToP might be the last story involving other universes since the next four storylines have only taken place in U7.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:31 pm

Skar wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:03 pm I always liked tournament arcs so I wouldn't mind having another one although with a different format. Maybe something like the movie Battle Royale or HxH's Zevil Island with a bigger location than the ToP. I think tournaments are the only the universes are going to interact since the only other time was Beerus traveling to U10 to prevent Gowasu's death.

The universes are setup that their own gods govern them so it's unlikely that Goku and Vegeta would be asked to solve a problem there. The only way to travel there is with Shin's teleportation or the Godtube so it's probably not allowed for mortals to travel between them on their own. I think the ToP might be the last story involving other universes since the next four storylines have only taken place in U7.
Yeah, I was thinking of HxH. Perhaps the next tournament would take place across an entire planet or something crazy. I would also like to see something like the earlier Hunter Exam stages where they all had to cooperate against all these deathtraps and hazards, except with a more straightforward action angle Dragon Ball is now known for.

It would be a shame if the Tournament of Power is the last we see of the multiverse, but I wouldn't be overly shocked if so. Looking back, they crammed so much stuff into that arc -- we saw all the Gods, all the Angels, all the strongest mortals (presumably)... It's almost like Toriyama was trying to say "yeah, there's nothing more to see here, move along". As if he was trying to get everything out of the way in one go. Still, it would feel weird considering how important the multiverse is to the original main three arcs. Judging by the recent interview, the possibility of other universes is at least still on Toyotaro's mind even if he didn't choose to go with that premise this time, so there's hope.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by Skar » Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:33 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:31 pmYeah, I was thinking of HxH. Perhaps the next tournament would take place across an entire planet or something crazy. I would also like to see something like the earlier Hunter Exam stages where they all had to cooperate against all these deathtraps and hazards, except with a more straightforward action angle Dragon Ball is now known for.
That would be fun to see! I recently started watching Naruto (Naruto Kai, the fan edit that removes all the filler!) and the Chunin exam's Forest of Death was similar to the Hunter exam's Zevil Island. Kishimoto was a big fan of Togashi's so he probably was inspired by it. It was more action packed since the students already some Ninja training before then. There were dangerous wildlife in the forest they had to avoid. DBS could have monsters from different planets like those beasts from Vampa and members of Yakon's race.
It would be a shame if the Tournament of Power is the last we see of the multiverse, but I wouldn't be overly shocked if so. Looking back, they crammed so much stuff into that arc -- we saw all the Gods, all the Angels, all the strongest mortals (presumably)... It's almost like Toriyama was trying to say "yeah, there's nothing more to see here, move along". As if he was trying to get everything out of the way in one go. Still, it would feel weird considering how important the multiverse is to the original main three arcs. Judging by the recent interview, the possibility of other universes is at least still on Toyotaro's mind even if he didn't choose to go with that premise this time, so there's hope.
I think BoG might've been originally intended as a standalone movie so bringing up the other universes was just to say that there's still room to grow and stronger opponents out there. The second GoD was Beerus' brother and the Goku Black arc had almost all the gods killed offscreen because they probably haven't decided what the others would be like. Then the ToP presents them all at once maybe to get it out of the way.

I would like to see them again if they have a good story in mind. It was fun seeing the fighters from different universes working together in Heroes but I don't think it addressed what all the GoDs were doing at the time. DBS gave a reason when other universes were involved since they had tournaments only mortals could compete and Beerus couldn't use the time machine to deal with Goku Black in the future so it's unlikely they would have the strongest mortals teamup against a multiverse threat while the GoDs do nothing and I thought the story would have them all killed again. For all we know, that could've been one of the many ideas suggested to Toriyama declined and the Heroes author decided to use it instead. If we do ever see other universes again, I think it would be more of a light hearted arc like Champa since Zeno already threatened the universes in the ToP and they probably wouldn't use that idea again.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:31 am

The only tournament arc I am looking forward to is the Tenkaiichi Budoukai during EoZ
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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by Skar » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:03 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:31 am The only tournament arc I am looking forward to is the Tenkaiichi Budoukai during EoZ
Well that's the closest tournament since the next movie is set in either Age 783 or 784. There could be some arcs set between the movie and EoZ and one could be a final multiverse tournament!

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:18 pm

They really should have saved Zamasu for an end arc where they have to chase him throughout all the universes. All universes would be involved. Just imagine how overpowered a Fused Zamasu with Complete Ultra Instinct would be. Infinite Zamasu happens but now in order to defeat him, Zeno does a merger of the universes instead after erasing him or something like that.

They could still do that since we never saw what happened exactly to the new versions of Goku Black and Future Zamasu that Future Trunks created after traveling back into the past of his own timeline.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:48 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:18 pm They really should have saved Zamasu for an end arc where they have to chase him throughout all the universes. All universes would be involved. Just imagine how overpowered a Fused Zamasu with Complete Ultra Instinct would be. Infinite Zamasu happens but now in order to defeat him, Zeno does a merger of the universes instead after erasing him or something like that.

They could still do that since we never saw what happened exactly to the new versions of Goku Black and Future Zamasu that Future Trunks created after traveling back into the past of his own timeline.
Yeah honestly you'd think they would save Zamasu for the final arc of the entire franchise, since Zamasu was legitimately a Multiversal threat (he exterminated all mortals in the entire Multiverse) and even transcended the Time-Space Continuum itself to affect other Timelines, but evidently they thought 4 more arcs (and counting) between him and End of Z were appropriate.

It is therefore not a surprise that one of the most popular theories back when the ToP was airing is that Future Zeno was possessed by Zamasu.

Although didn't Whis say that he'd tell the Beerus over there to erase Goku Black, and then would use his Angel sealing technique to seal the Immortal Zamasu?

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:32 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:48 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:18 pm They really should have saved Zamasu for an end arc where they have to chase him throughout all the universes. All universes would be involved. Just imagine how overpowered a Fused Zamasu with Complete Ultra Instinct would be. Infinite Zamasu happens but now in order to defeat him, Zeno does a merger of the universes instead after erasing him or something like that.

They could still do that since we never saw what happened exactly to the new versions of Goku Black and Future Zamasu that Future Trunks created after traveling back into the past of his own timeline.
Yeah honestly you'd think they would save Zamasu for the final arc of the entire franchise, since Zamasu was legitimately a Multiversal threat (he exterminated all mortals in the entire Multiverse) and even transcended the Time-Space Continuum itself to affect other Timelines, but evidently they thought 4 more arcs (and counting) between him and End of Z were appropriate.

It is therefore not a surprise that one of the most popular theories back when the ToP was airing is that Future Zeno was possessed by Zamasu.

Although didn't Whis say that he'd tell the Beerus over there to erase Goku Black, and then would use his Angel sealing technique to seal the Immortal Zamasu?
Yes he did but we simply don't know what happened.

At the very least Future Zamasu is still alive.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:29 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:32 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:48 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:18 pm They really should have saved Zamasu for an end arc where they have to chase him throughout all the universes. All universes would be involved. Just imagine how overpowered a Fused Zamasu with Complete Ultra Instinct would be. Infinite Zamasu happens but now in order to defeat him, Zeno does a merger of the universes instead after erasing him or something like that.

They could still do that since we never saw what happened exactly to the new versions of Goku Black and Future Zamasu that Future Trunks created after traveling back into the past of his own timeline.
Yeah honestly you'd think they would save Zamasu for the final arc of the entire franchise, since Zamasu was legitimately a Multiversal threat (he exterminated all mortals in the entire Multiverse) and even transcended the Time-Space Continuum itself to affect other Timelines, but evidently they thought 4 more arcs (and counting) between him and End of Z were appropriate.

It is therefore not a surprise that one of the most popular theories back when the ToP was airing is that Future Zeno was possessed by Zamasu.

Although didn't Whis say that he'd tell the Beerus over there to erase Goku Black, and then would use his Angel sealing technique to seal the Immortal Zamasu?
Yes he did but we simply don't know what happened.

At the very least Future Zamasu is still alive.
Well frankly if you want Zamasu to come back you can just look at Cell timeline, the Zamasu there would still be an apprentice training to become Supreme Kai :think:

To keep this in topic, I remember that back when the ToP was airing people thought Gowasu might time travel to recruit a version of Goku Black to fight for U10, telling him that if they lost then the world he loves would be destroyed (Reminder that Zamasu loved Life and didn't want it to be erased). Maybe if there's another Multiversal Tournament Gowasu can indeed use his Time Ring to ask for the help of Black (faking that he is a mortal so that he is allowed to participate), since the previous Team he chose was so pitiful and pathetic :lol:

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:29 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:29 am Well frankly if you want Zamasu to come back you can just look at Cell timeline, the Zamasu there would still be an apprentice training to become Supreme Kai :think:

To keep this in topic, I remember that back when the ToP was airing people thought Gowasu might time travel to recruit a version of Goku Black to fight for U10, telling him that if they lost then the world he loves would be destroyed (Reminder that Zamasu loved Life and didn't want it to be erased). Maybe if there's another Multiversal Tournament Gowasu can indeed use his Time Ring to ask for the help of Black (faking that he is a mortal so that he is allowed to participate), since the previous Team he chose was so pitiful and pathetic :lol:
Yeah, Black might just slip past the mortal entry barrier with his body. Assuming another tournament has universal stakes like the last (if they keep that up, it would be funny to see all the other universes agree to sign a waiver to promise that the winning universe will definitely wish the others back at the end :lol: ), Rummshi would probably pressure Gowasu into reviving Black to compete for them to make up for their team's ineptitude. Since Gowasu carries so much regret for failing Zamasu so badly, he probably wouldn't consider doing it himself. Similar to Freeza, it would be a desperate last resort, but I'd love to see Gowasu take this chance to try to convert Zamasu back to the light -- I can't imagine he would in the manga since he already tried to reach out and got stabbed a third time for his trouble, lol. Perhaps while competing, even Zamasu begrudgingly starts to see some redemption in mortals and finally learns the lessons Gowasu failed to teach him. Maybe not a full blown redemption arc, since Zamasu's sadism and narcissism are too intense, but he could gain some humility like Freeza did.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:24 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:29 am
ZombieVito wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:32 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:48 pm

Yeah honestly you'd think they would save Zamasu for the final arc of the entire franchise, since Zamasu was legitimately a Multiversal threat (he exterminated all mortals in the entire Multiverse) and even transcended the Time-Space Continuum itself to affect other Timelines, but evidently they thought 4 more arcs (and counting) between him and End of Z were appropriate.

It is therefore not a surprise that one of the most popular theories back when the ToP was airing is that Future Zeno was possessed by Zamasu.

Although didn't Whis say that he'd tell the Beerus over there to erase Goku Black, and then would use his Angel sealing technique to seal the Immortal Zamasu?
Yes he did but we simply don't know what happened.

At the very least Future Zamasu is still alive.
Well frankly if you want Zamasu to come back you can just look at Cell timeline, the Zamasu there would still be an apprentice training to become Supreme Kai :think:

To keep this in topic, I remember that back when the ToP was airing people thought Gowasu might time travel to recruit a version of Goku Black to fight for U10, telling him that if they lost then the world he loves would be destroyed (Reminder that Zamasu loved Life and didn't want it to be erased). Maybe if there's another Multiversal Tournament Gowasu can indeed use his Time Ring to ask for the help of Black (faking that he is a mortal so that he is allowed to participate), since the previous Team he chose was so pitiful and pathetic :lol:
I can totally see Gowasu doing this if they do another tournament. Getting erase sucks no matter what.

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Re: "Zeno-sama, next time I will prepare a more high-spec GodPad"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:01 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:29 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:29 am Well frankly if you want Zamasu to come back you can just look at Cell timeline, the Zamasu there would still be an apprentice training to become Supreme Kai :think:

To keep this in topic, I remember that back when the ToP was airing people thought Gowasu might time travel to recruit a version of Goku Black to fight for U10, telling him that if they lost then the world he loves would be destroyed (Reminder that Zamasu loved Life and didn't want it to be erased). Maybe if there's another Multiversal Tournament Gowasu can indeed use his Time Ring to ask for the help of Black (faking that he is a mortal so that he is allowed to participate), since the previous Team he chose was so pitiful and pathetic :lol:
Yeah, Black might just slip past the mortal entry barrier with his body. Assuming another tournament has universal stakes like the last (if they keep that up, it would be funny to see all the other universes agree to sign a waiver to promise that the winning universe will definitely wish the others back at the end :lol: ), Rummshi would probably pressure Gowasu into reviving Black to compete for them to make up for their team's ineptitude. Since Gowasu carries so much regret for failing Zamasu so badly, he probably wouldn't consider doing it himself. Similar to Freeza, it would be a desperate last resort, but I'd love to see Gowasu take this chance to try to convert Zamasu back to the light -- I can't imagine he would in the manga since he already tried to reach out and got stabbed a third time for his trouble, lol. Perhaps while competing, even Zamasu begrudgingly starts to see some redemption in mortals and finally learns the lessons Gowasu failed to teach him. Maybe not a full blown redemption arc, since Zamasu's sadism and narcissism are too intense, but he could gain some humility like Freeza did.
Well, I don't really know how that plot would be developed (for example how Zamasu would be written), but simply the idea of travelling through time to pick warriors for the Multiversal tournament sounds like a smart plan. Now obviously the problem is that Zeno hates time travel, but Zeno also likes to have fun and someone could convince that using such methods would make the Tournament more fun. He was also against the Potara until Kefla was born and showed him how fun it is.

So for instance, imagine if in the next Tournament the U11 Kai used his Time Ring to recruit 9 Alternate Jiren from 9 Alternate Timelines, that would destroy the Space-Time continuum completely but at least it would make things more fun :think:

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