Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

ZodiacBeast
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by ZodiacBeast » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:04 pm

Baby would have been a nice potential "end saga" for the original manga (and "revenge against the Saiyans" in general), but that time has long since passed. With the general dislike of GT AND Super already have an evil doppelganger, Baby isn't coming back.

Hmm...if the Baby saga already happened, would we get the current arc? More revenge against the Saiyans? Or would Tori and Toyo just shrug and keep writing?

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:20 pm

ZodiacBeast wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:04 pm With the general dislike of GT AND Super already have an evil doppelganger, Baby isn't coming back.
How long before people learn there is no "general dislike" of GT? Seriously, the Internet whining doesn't mean anything. It's the same case as with Pokemon games and their fanbases. Toyotaro pays nods to GT all the time both in DBS manga and out of it. Toei has respect for the series too. They're not some stubborn guys who read this forum and think "these guys dislike it, no chance!!" like you seem to think.

Didn't FighterZ get 3 GT characters too? Some of which became top tiers. Yeah, totally a general dislike.

ZodiacBeast
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by ZodiacBeast » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:35 pm

Xeogran wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:20 pm
ZodiacBeast wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:04 pm With the general dislike of GT AND Super already have an evil doppelganger, Baby isn't coming back.
How long before people learn there is no "general dislike" of GT? Seriously, the Internet whining doesn't mean anything. It's the same case as with Pokemon games and their fanbases. Toyotaro pays nods to GT all the time both in DBS manga and out of it. Toei has respect for the series too. They're not some stubborn guys who read this forum and think "these guys dislike it, no chance!!" like you seem to think.

Didn't FighterZ get 3 GT characters too? Some of which became top tiers. Yeah, totally a general dislike.
Show me these mythical creatures that like GT!

Seriously though, I was mistaken because most of the people I speak to dislike it.

User avatar
capsulecorp
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:08 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by capsulecorp » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:47 pm

I generally dislike GT.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17537
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:51 pm

This is a discussion thread for Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 78. If you have topics unrelated to this chapter that you wish to discuss, please find (or create) a more-appropriate thread for that. Thank you!
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
FlpShimizu
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:40 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by FlpShimizu » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:19 pm

Good God it's the third time in a row I visit the forum only to find VegettoEX reminding people to stay on topic and everytime it's because some of you can't stop hating something (Toyotaro, Super, GT, Super Hero, etc).

It's fine if you dont' like the direction this franchise took, but is it really worth it to keep watching/reading if you hate it so much? Is it healthy?
"I'm never fighting a gag manga character again!"

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:58 pm

Anyhoo.

I think one of the things I think I'm looking forward to in the conflict to come is to see whether there's a further development of what I can only describe as an 'Intel vs. Instinct' conflict theme - I mentioned earlier that I think the Heeters are best conceived of as a 'corporate' unit (in both senses of that term - business and body), and that there appears to be tension between Elec's plotting and what Gas wants for himself, so there seems a natural contrast between the overweening attempt of the 'Brain' to control its members against their will and Goku's and Vegeta's Divine Power Forms, which have total reliance on the instinctual capacities of their own body members spontaneously generating the appropriate response, without conscious interference. There also may be an irony in this central conflict - Elec sets his stall out to rule by having all the intel, but he doesn't even know his own little brother, whereas Goku, Vegeta and Granolah instinctively form a strange understanding despite being mortal enemies (and in Goku's case, has the added aspect of changing his own father's instincts back in the past simply by being himself).

This also seems to dovetail with the conscious plotting and planning by the Heeters and their use of information through the arc, which has proved often only partially or ephemerally accurate, and sometimes critically and maliciously faulty, and the instincts of various main characters appear to rebel against it in subtle ways across the arc - we've already noted the various hesitations and resentments Gas expresses, but an early, smaller example might be seen in Granolah's dreams in Chapter 68 - he "knows" the Saiyans are responsible for the destruction of his people (only partly true), but they are all gone (untrue), wiped out by a meteor (also untrue), and so he doesn't understand why he keeps dreaming about them lately - the reason why is that instinctively some part of him, buried deep, knows it to be untrue, but the lies the Heeters and Monaito have told him allow him to 'safely' nurse his revenge fantasy and so remain trapped by the past.

Thinking some more about the last 3 Chapters (76-78), I get the feeling that on re-reads they might step forward as the thematic keystone of the whole arc, particularly given how the 'Trapped by the Past' aspect of the story also comes through, as Chapters 76 and 78 lay out for us the various ways in which the Characters show they cannot or will not move beyond "the fateful day" 40 years ago (which they treat as though it were yesterday), astride the account of the day itself that actually works to bind them all together (Vegeta, who represents and feels guilt for 'business-as-usual sins' like this, Granolah, whose world was shattered by this business, the Heeters, who were its prime movers, and Goku, whose influence on his father's instincts that day saved the central character of the arc, just as he did more literally in Chapter 76).

For all its focus on a central, escalating battle, I think the arc has extra subtleties threaded through it that will reward re-reads, particularly when considering the theme-work that seems as assured as that deployed in previous arcs. I think I like the way it's coming together.

User avatar
Mr Baggins
Regular
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:22 pm

Right now, there are several different contenders for what the arc's overarching theme might be.

Granolah and Vegeta are weighed down by the past. Granolah and Gas are caught up in their own revenge, while Vegeta and Oatmeel have acted as Granolah's conscience in various ways as he sought that revenge. Another word that keeps coming up is survival, namely in the story's principal characters (including Bardock, Monaito, Elec, etc.) doing whatever it takes to help themselves or others thrive. We don't know how it'll all come together thematically yet, mostly because the arc's structure is more drawn-out and deliberate than previous Dragon Ball stories. But like some of those stories, it may not become obvious until the climax.

With that said, for me it's a stretch to claim that "intel" is a part of any intended theme here, least of all a central one. It's something that Elec obviously places value in, along with money, but his most significant choices in the story -- particularly the ones related to his siblings and Granolah -- are based on hedging risks rather than gathering information in itself. He isn't exactly controlling the other Heeters "against their will" either; if anything he's finally letting Gas do almost exactly what he wants, but with an added strength boost that he didn't really ask for (because minimizing risks and all). The story in general isn't doing much to emphasize any kind of diametric conflict between information/intel and instinct, or whatever. If it is, it sure as hell isn't presented meaningfully. That's reading into everything a little too much, I think.

We'll see.
Review scores for the DBS manga (and movies):

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:15 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:22 pmWith that said, for me it's a stretch to claim that "intel" is a part of any intended theme here, least of all a central one.
To each their own, but when I look at the story so far, I see the flow of information (and disinformation) as critical to the decisions the characters have made, and causative of basically all of the arc's events from the beginning.

The way in which the Heeters have deployed information has fundamentally shaped Granolah's attitudes and situation when we first encounter him - we know they've deliberately concealed their own part in the destruction of his world and people while magnifying the role of Freeza and his stooges to Granolah so he'll do their bidding (to the extent of threatening Monaito with death if he tells Granolah what he knows, as #77 reveals); the encounter with Bardock that led to Gas's "indignity" was caused by the attempt by the Heeters to control information about their intentions so that it wouldn't get back to Freeza (again, #77); Elec made a conscious decision to reveal Freeza's return to Granolah specifically to propel him towards getting himself offed (but which led to him seeking the Dragon Balls - the location of which he finds via the Sugarian daily news service), and they withhold information about where Granolah might find him; the Heeters feed Goku and Vegeta disinformation about Granolah's intentions, while telling Granolah they've been sent by Freeza to kill him, thus setting up the clash that has been central to the arc. They've plotted to acquire intel from OG73-I (which is how they find out where Zuno is, who Goku and Vegeta are, and what the Dragon Balls are), they wheedle information out of Granolah (to learn the nature of the problem he presents as the strongest, and what they need to do to overcome it), and they get cast-iron intel out of Zuno so they can actually accomplish their plans. There's also been a progressive revelation of the truth across that clash (which is drawn out partly because Granolah wants to extract intel from the Saiyans) - the truth about what it means to be the strongest, the truth about the Saiyans and how they were destroyed, the truth about how Granolah came to be a survivor, etc. Add this to it being repeatedly emphasised that the Heeters intend to use intel/information to realise their plans and come out on top (even as recently as #77 - "with wits, wealth, and intel...our day will come eventually"), and I can't personally avoid seeing information flow and control as completely central here - what would even have happened in this arc without it? Basically nothing. And the control of information is what keeps the characters trapped in the past (particularly Granolah).

As for the clash with instinct - as information flow is causative of conflict and destruction in the arc (as seen above - the Heeters use it for these purposes throughout), instinct takes its place as the opposing, resistant property. You're right that I overstate things a little when I say Elec controls his siblings 'against their will', but what I'm trying to emphasise is Elec's position as a controlling mind making conscious decisions of planning and plotting as part of his 'corporate' role (which seems to have caused tension with Gas in the past, and definitely is in evidence at the times when he complains about or demurs at Elec's decisions; and while you're right that Gas has been let off the leash in #78, it's not in the way he wants, and the Chapter also reveals that Elec's decisions around Granolah are at the root of Gas's resentment), which have been set directly against a power born of instinct, which both Goku and Vegeta have been using to resist in the central arc conflict (Ultra Instinct, of course, being about not thinking and letting one's body make the right decisions - Granolah even troubles to mention that Goku acts before his brain could've possibly processed what he's doing - and Ultra Ego, also being an instinctive emotional response to combat stimuli - Beerus himself points up the difference between his own mind being instinctually on destruction, and Vegeta being weighed down and inhibited by doubts born of incomplete information interpreted misguidedly). But the whole root of Granolah's survival in the first place has come from instinct - namely, how Goku's existence has influenced how Bardock has instinctively acted to save Monaito, Muezli and Granolah, specifically despite the fact that he knows it's not like him (he literally doesn't know why he's doing it) and it's really not the smart play - he "just felt like it". Similarly, Goku acts instinctively in the present to save Granolah and Vegeta from themselves in #76. Moreover, the ways in which the Heeters' plans have come undone have been in gaps in conscious thought (e.g., the Heeters didn't learn of Granolah's existence until years later; Elec forgot there was a surviving Namekian on Cereal; the Heeters' expectations of how Goku and Vegeta will act in order to kill Granolah are thwarted by how the pair naturally act, etc.). As intel and its misuse causes conflict and turmoil in this arc, instinct is protective, and (by way of a prediction) is likely to ultimately win out.

To be sure, all things are subject to how one chooses to emphasise one's own interpretations, but I personally think there's definitely enough material actually present in the arc to carry this one as a legitimate possibility. As you say, we'll see.

User avatar
Mr Baggins
Regular
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:15 pmwhat would even have happened in this arc without it? Basically nothing.
Without information flow? Given that you can make this argument about any story arc in DB (hell, almost any story ever) I don't find your case very convincing. I'll save you the countless examples I can come up with.

Yes, Elec is a very plotty character in general, often deliberately withholding or providing information to suit his needs. Not once does the story place this in direct opposition with "instinct", or what I assume you actually mean by general intuition. Bardock's actions collided with Elec's tendency to tie up loose ends at best, not his intel. Goku and Vegeta's godly forms were used against Granolah, neither of which were rebelling against Elec's plans or use of information in particular. He'd planned on Goku and Vegeta teaming up, but that's not what happened only because that's not how these two characters operate in general.

That's what I mean when I say that if some polarity between these concepts is the intention of the writing, it isn't presented meaningfully. But I don't personally think it's the intention at all.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:15 pmAnd the control of information is what keeps the characters trapped in the past (particularly Granolah).
Granolah's fight against Vegeta specifically goes out of its way to show us this isn't true. He progressively learns more about the truth of the Saiyans during that battle, including Vegeta's lack of involvement in Cereal's genocide, and still chooses revenge. Vegeta couldn't move on from his past in the way that Beerus wanted, and that too was an emotional choice not chiefly borne from or related to intel.

The entire narrative (and arguably thematic) point of these conflicts is that Granolah's trauma has been at the forefront of his staying in the past -- not, as you seem to imply, "flow of information" alone. It's all human emotion. The latter is peripheral.

It's a character-driven arc, and viewing all of these interactions through some diametric "intel vs. instinct" lens is a very robotic way of looking at this story when its characters have been anything but.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:15 pm but what I'm trying to emphasise is Elec's position as a controlling mind making conscious decisions of planning and plotting as part of his 'corporate' role (which seems to have caused tension with Gas in the past, and definitely is in evidence at the times when he complains about or demurs at Elec's decisions
I know; Elec is their leader, so of course he calls the shots. I'm saying I think you're generally overstating the tension between Elec and Gas. Elec already knows his little brother wants to get things done with his own strength, but still chooses to minimize that risk based on what happened in the past. He's thus far been very forthright with his siblings about what he wants, and not only does Gas not strongly object to that choice, the story explicitly shows that Elec was right. Gas certainly doesn't seem too upset with his new power.

It's not even subtle about it. I think this is just more a case of specific readers misconstruing thematic connections that aren't really there, and as it stands, I'm thoroughly unconvinced that this will be key to the Heeters' downfall.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:15 pm To be sure, all things are subject to how one chooses to emphasise one's own interpretations, but I personally think there's definitely enough material actually present in the arc to carry this one as a legitimate possibility. As you say, we'll see.
Right, and I don't think your interpretation is impossible. Just implausible, at least so far.

It's all mostly up in the air. The fact that there's still so much variance in everyone's theories of the arc's themes says about as much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Review scores for the DBS manga (and movies):

User avatar
MCDaveG
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5533
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czechia
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:41 am

ZodiacBeast wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:35 pm
Xeogran wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:20 pm
ZodiacBeast wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:04 pm With the general dislike of GT AND Super already have an evil doppelganger, Baby isn't coming back.
How long before people learn there is no "general dislike" of GT? Seriously, the Internet whining doesn't mean anything. It's the same case as with Pokemon games and their fanbases. Toyotaro pays nods to GT all the time both in DBS manga and out of it. Toei has respect for the series too. They're not some stubborn guys who read this forum and think "these guys dislike it, no chance!!" like you seem to think.

Didn't FighterZ get 3 GT characters too? Some of which became top tiers. Yeah, totally a general dislike.
Show me these mythical creatures that like GT!

Seriously though, I was mistaken because most of the people I speak to dislike it.
Here I am :lol: GT is kinda like prequels of Star Wars. Many people shouting how bad it is, but ton of people grew up on it and are fans of the characters, including myself. Yeah, the series is far from perfect, with some of the concepts not played as well as they could be, but Super has also some flaws, even tho it is a better sequel in my personal opinion.

But sure, take that robotic God Of Destruction for example, it's like combination of Giru from GT (who was designed by Toriyama btw.) and Robo from Chrono Trigger. Toyotaro's (of course, presumably) AF was a sequel to GT and the look of Dragon Ball in the current manga and anime as I said like 100x times here already, is emulating the style of Toriyama during the second half and first half of Cell and Buu arcs respectively, with anime pushing it further in GT and again, the Super series emulates it as well, as Toriyama is miles away nowaydays with the way he draws stuff now.
So Toyotaro is close to GT and the overall style that I have mentioned and can see him paying nods here and there.
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru of manga is what I called him in different thread :)

GT is a bit sidelined now because of Super being the last and recent thing and people want the new characters in games and etc. but even as recently as in Xenoverse 1, there was hype for a pre-order SSJ4 Vegeta and XV2 got ton of characters from GT, with some even coming in more recent DLCs, the same with FighterZ, getting Baby and SSJ4 Gogeta to quite a hype, with GT Goku preceding them and being seen as a fun and cool bonus.

GT was and is among the DB fans also quite popular in Europe, as it came here almost like 10 years after it's premiere and was marketed as the sequel to the super succesful Z. But for sure, not as much as Z - for example in Czechia alone, where it never aired, the rating among fans is 77% for both Z and Super respectively and 63% for GT... Which is actually a bit more than average as really bad stuff get's around 35 and lower.
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmIt's all mostly up in the air. The fact that there's still so much variance in everyone's theories of the arc's themes says about as much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That there is a true word; I didn't have a clue what themes the Moro arc was reaching for until like Chapter 65, so I'm sure I'll shift about and flip on a bunch of things at this early (?) stage. Thanks for humouring me and taking the time to reply! I know you're not into protracted back-and-forth, so I'm happy to let this exchange just stand with a couple of important clarifications on my end:
Mr Baggins wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmWithout information flow? Given that you can make this argument about any story arc in DB (hell, almost any story ever) I don't find your case very convincing.
To clarify: no, not simply information flow in the general sense; I mean specifically the way the Heeters have attempted to control, manipulate and (ab)use the flow of information. It runs through both the events of 40 years ago and the events of the present conflict.

For instance, from this perspective, the encounter between Bardock and the Heeters is all about information control from their end because the Heeters worry that the information Bardock has overheard about their plans may get back to Freeza, which is why they resolve to kill him, not simply tying up 'loose ends' for the sake of it - and whatever happened next sits at the root of Gas's issues, which are evidently working themselves through now (whether or not we agree as to the extent of his tension with Elec specifically). The attempt to control information flow has a resonance from the past storyline to the present storyline, as does the clash with the instinctual (you prefer 'intuitive'; to me, that's 'potato-potahto').

Similarly, by this reckoning, Granolah remains a primary site of the conflict between these concepts, because he survives thanks to Bardock's altered instincts, but his attitudes are conditioned by the (dis)information the Heeters have fed him and which he has taken for granted as truth all his life; what we ultimately see (particularly in the last few Chapters) is the progressive unravelling of Heeter control over the information he has access to, which by the time this Chapter rolls around ends up in a change of sentiment.
Mr Baggins wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmIt's a character-driven arc, and viewing all of these interactions through some diametric "intel vs. instinct" lens is a very robotic way of looking at this story when its characters have been anything but.
(Except Oatmeel ;) )

To clarify: I have no intention of denying how crucial the emotional aspect is for Granolah or Vegeta; what I'm saying is that the information they have access to sits at the root of their emotional response (Vegeta in a small way early on, Granolah in a big way throughout), and because the information is fatally flawed and skewed, it results in fatally false inferences by these characters, and consequently wrong/negative/destructive feeling and action. It's not my intention to be reductive and say the character-driven aspects aren't there, and I don't think saying that one can reach back behind obvious character sentiment to what forges the context of their sentiments invalidates a sentimental reading: rather, I consider it mutually enriching to say that the personal conflict is also a reflection of a conceptual conflict.

You know, until next month, when I junk it in favour of some other brainwave :lol: Thanks again for the chat!

User avatar
Mr Baggins
Regular
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:34 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 pm Thanks for humouring me and taking the time to reply! I know you're not into protracted back-and-forth, so I'm happy to let this exchange just stand with a couple of important clarifications on my end:
No worries, and I didn't mean to sound dismissive. I just wanted to challenge you on that point specifically because I think you're especially good at identifying themes and theme-work in Dragon Ball. Maybe your interpretation will turn out to be correct, but I hope you'll at least consider some alternatives before zoning in too much on that particular theory/reading as the plot moves forward.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:57 pm but his attitudes are conditioned by the (dis)information the Heeters have fed him and which he has taken for granted as truth all his life
I think that might be one of our biggest points of contention here.

For all intents and purposes, Granolah's traumatic experiences were established as the root of his obsession with the past. Guy was single-mindedly honing his skills from childhood, and Monaito already made it clear that knowing the truth of the Heeters' involvement would have gotten him killed. In other words, knowing the truth affects nothing more than his physical targets. His hang-ups are the same; the only difference is that he would have targeted them instead of, or even in addition to, the surviving Saiyans.

Elec's manipulation (or "information control", in your words) is crucial for determining who the object of Granolah's vengeance is, but not so much his attitudes and disposition. The idea that intel lies at the root of people like Granolah or Vegeta (or Gas, even) being trapped by their past is, in my view, contradicted by Monaito's dialogue and largely divorced from the psychology of the characters.

Not to mention it would make for a pretty boring plot, but I suppose you've already clarified you weren't trying to invalidate the personal at the expense of the conceptual. I'm just not sure that that conceptual element was intended per se, although I don't mean to diminish that reading in itself if people find that it resonates with them.
Review scores for the DBS manga (and movies):

User avatar
batistabus
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 2108
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: DBS:SH

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:48 pm

Interesting conversation. I'm not sure if it's a theme per say, but as a way of framing the conflict between Heeta/Granolah/Saiyans, I like Intel vs Emotion vs Instinct.

Post Reply