Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Mister_Popo
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Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:27 pm

I still have some (major) concerns about this movie and the Super franchise in general.

Gohan being the Saiyan with most potential isn't exactly something renewing or refreshing at all.
It has been revisited so many times in the past (SSJ2, Ultimate), the only difference with Goku and Vegeta: it has been a while.
Those two should not always get main stage. True, but it should mean something: Gohan and Piccolo getting renewed attention only adds up if they REALLY become relevant again along with those other two. On the other hand, if Goku and Vegeta stay on Whis planet: how big can this Android-threat really be?

I mean Gohan, appeared to have returned, at last, again during the Tournament of Power at some descent level, willing to achieve the same heights as Goku.
Knowing he HAS the potential to do so. As we all know for so long.
He became captain of the team, only to end up having only relatively minor roles during the TOP, Broly, Moro and Granolah-arcs.

I hope i'm wrong here, i hope they do have the balls to make a show that's more focussed on the next gen-fighters.
I'm afraid they don't really will become relevant again on the longer term, but it's a one-movie-special that merely gives some fans that like these characters this illusion. Only to move back to the Goku- and Vegeta-show later on.

I was prepared to give the franchise the benefit of the doubt during 2018: second part of the anime was a lot better for me than the first part and Broly was a great movie. I still think they made a big mistake by not producing a real good entertaining 2D-anime in Broly-style later on in 2019. By that time the revival truely was at its peak. For some reason, ironically enough, they did not choose to give the fans what they truely deserved.

Now it's still kinda a mixed bag for me, together with the full CGI for this movie and the manga that's not going truely bonkers, i'm not exactly "Super" hyped for the time being. It feels like they just want to drag this on without real artistic purpose. Definitely if they won't bring the 2D-style anime back at all, and the chosen route is a debatable manga at best combined with a CGI-movie every two-three years that doesn't contribute new and relevant assets to the story in the longer run. That's not what i call Dragonball-worthy.

If this movie fails, i hope they FINALLY understand they have to work for their money. Maybe that wouldn't even be a bad thing.
But it might very well be too late, as this revival will not last forever.

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Jiren The Alpha
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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:08 pm

Super being the Goku and Vegeta show is probably the biggest misconception this franchise has ever had.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by Lionel » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:27 pm

It could be said that Super has done some things which break the mould -- the parity between Goku and Vegeta that's occurred throughout a number of arcs (ROF, manga U6 tournament, Granolah), the ultimate defeat of antagonists (Zamasu, Jiren), branching pathways for the two Saiyans. With that out of the way, it has to be said that Super has entrenched itself with some pretty static aspects like the character dynamics. Goku and Vegeta have had this seesaw duopoly going on since the ROF arc. The original Dragon Ball and Z may have been largely an aggrandisement of Goku but you did have the presence and activities of other characters including Gohan, Piccolo, and the humans up until the Cell arc.

I like to think I echo the opinions of a great number of people when stating that I would like to see some kind of evolution of the character dynamics, not just Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:59 pm

Lionel wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:27 pm It could be said that Super has done some things which break the mould -- the parity between Goku and Vegeta that's occurred throughout a number of arcs (ROF, manga U6 tournament, Granolah), the ultimate defeat of antagonists (Zamasu, Jiren), branching pathways for the two Saiyans. With that out of the way, it has to be said that Super has entrenched itself with some pretty static aspects like the character dynamics. Goku and Vegeta have had this seesaw duopoly going on since the ROF arc. The original Dragon Ball and Z may have been largely an aggrandisement of Goku but you did have the presence and activities of other characters including Gohan, Piccolo, and the humans up until the Cell arc.

I like to think I echo the opinions of a great number of people when stating that I would like to see some kind of evolution of the character dynamics, not just Goku and Vegeta.
This is it. I've come to accept that when people mockingly call it the "Goku and Vegeta Show", they're not trying to claim that literally no other characters matter -- plenty get compelling development and some even get that coveted W -- only that the undeniably formulaic focus on Goku and Vegeta does get tiresome at times (duopoly's a very good word for it). Yet it's become such a central part of the overarching story that it's hard to remove. It's not like in the original manga where the major supporting cast filter in and out of the spotlight organically, now it's more like a third or fourth wheel comes along occasionally to shake things up, but they rarely hang around. Freeza, #17, Broly, Moro, Merus, some of the parallel universe characters... Granola could be another, but he's managed to provoke some interesting evolution to Goku and Vegeta's dynamic, so I hope he sticks around longer.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by Geraldo » Sat May 21, 2022 3:03 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:08 pm Super being the Goku and Vegeta show is probably the biggest misconception this franchise has ever had.
The people in charge are probably sure that we're all dumb menchilds who buy toys of these two annoying Saiyans and shove them at our faces no matter how bad the writing is. The reason I chose to let DB die in my life priorities in anime/manga has to do with this shtick along as other things (silly hair dyes or body coloring alterations and minor modifications as transformations every new arc, no timeline structure, no real methods for growth in power just like how Frieza and cheap Android 17 got to their current levels by doing nothing that made them sweat, rehashed villains and ideas, etc.)

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Sun May 22, 2022 6:14 pm

I personally think the western internet fandom overestimates it's importance, relevance, and underestimates how successful and globally huge the franchise is. The people on the internet talking about Dragon Ball are a pebble in the pond.

My biggest concern is that people actually like that it's the Goku and Vegeta show and moving away from that will prove to be detrimental. I would like it if more characters got involved, but I'm not fully convinced the general public would care. I will say, the breaks between major franchise developments may prove to be beneficial as much as I don't like them. But only time will tell. We're gonna see how many people actually care about Gohan and Piccolo real soon.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Mon May 23, 2022 2:26 pm

I find anything concerning the Androids to be boring, I much prefer if they made a movie that took the story of out of universe and introduced an antagonist that can show us something we haven't seen before.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by Draconic » Mon May 23, 2022 3:35 pm

My biggest concern is that I can already see a scenario like this playing out:

Have Gohan and Piccolo take center stage for a movie but:
1. Make it CGI, which no one asked for and is very easy to screw up.
2. Market it so poorly, that there doesn't seem to be any excitement in the fanbase, let alone the general audience.

These factors combined can lead to the movie underperforming, and underperforming HARD under the worst circumstances, but, knowing corporate people, the reaction will be that unless it's all Goku and Vegeta all the time, it's not going to be succesful.

Combine that with the issues of the pandemic screwing with the workflow and then add on top the hack, the risk of screwing up only goes up. Sure, you can't put them on Toei, but history showed even under normal circustances Toei seems to not give Dragon Ball the proper care, let alone now.

Hopefully it all turns out well. The movie is certainly not going to rock the world, like Broly did, but I hope it is a succes in its own way.
Check out the videos below, made by yours truly!

Goku vs Beerus BOG/Super mash-up https://gofile.io/d/kKKnMe

Vegeta vs Freeza ROF/Super mash-up https://gofile.io/d/MKPepW

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by WittyUsername » Mon May 23, 2022 6:02 pm

I can’t say I’m concerned about the future of Super as a brand. If anything, I kind of hope this movie will be the end of the DBS era. It was an interesting ride, but I think it’s time to give it a rest.

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Re: Some concerns about this new movie and the future of the Super brand in general

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Wed May 25, 2022 11:03 am

Draconic wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:35 pm My biggest concern is that I can already see a scenario like this playing out:

Have Gohan and Piccolo take center stage for a movie but:
1. Make it CGI, which no one asked for and is very easy to screw up.
2. Market it so poorly, that there doesn't seem to be any excitement in the fanbase, let alone the general audience.

These factors combined can lead to the movie underperforming, and underperforming HARD under the worst circumstances, but, knowing corporate people, the reaction will be that unless it's all Goku and Vegeta all the time, it's not going to be succesful.

Combine that with the issues of the pandemic screwing with the workflow and then add on top the hack, the risk of screwing up only goes up. Sure, you can't put them on Toei, but history showed even under normal circustances Toei seems to not give Dragon Ball the proper care, let alone now.
This is why my one dream would be for Toriyama to finally put his foot down and do what Go Nagai did & cut ties with Toei to move the franchise to another studio. Toei should not be making the money they do off this franchise with little effort. They've ruined some of my favorite old classic animes in recent times due to their greed & incompetence.

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