Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:39 pm

Context: Viz's release of the Dragon Ball Super manga credits several translators and one editor throughout its run. Volumes 1-4 are credited to Toshikazu Aizawa (translator) and Marlene First (editor). Volumes 5 and 6 list Toshikazu Aizawa, Christine Dashieli, and Caleb Cook as translators, while First stays on as editor. From Volume 7, Cook is listed as the sole translator, and First as editor.

This thread is not intended to place blame or criticism on anyone. The workflow of a simulpub release is daunting. Translators may not always have final check on their own lines, time and dialogue-bubble space is tight, edits may need to occur on the fly, and more hands may be in the pot than just those credited in the roles above.

Regardless of the how or why, however, there are a handful of spots throughout Viz's release where I believe there is an identifiable error, or that a dialogue choice has introduced confusion or interpretation that may have influenced English-language readers' experience with the series, and I do believe they're worth documenting. I say this as a fan of the work. However, out of sympathy to the translation and simulpub staff, I also have to ask that everyone read the following with full understanding and respect, without looking to turn the thread into any kind of criticism or blame game. I will not speculate, other than potential language pitfalls where relevant, why any final line may have wound up on the page the way it did, who was involved, or what circumstances or decisions were behind it. I really don't and can't know.

As a way of explaining the Japanese, I will offer my own potential translation, and where relevant note a more literal version than I believe should truly end up on a page, where it might be illustrative of the intent of the line or the origin of an error. I am not beholden to these translations being the correct or best ones, but simply in illustrating where the published English may have been in error or obfuscated an element of the original work.

In addition, while some of the entries below are errors, not all are. Some are fully justifiable translations, but may have failed to account for fan readings, or their full context in Dragon Ball, or any number of things that have left them persistent thorns in fan discussions, or impacted the reading experience. I do not blame any translators or editors for not foreseeing these, but with the benefit of a superfan eye and leisurely reading time not always afforded to simulpub staff, I would like to address them as seems relevant.

Key:
Red = Error - For spots where it really looks like a portion or all of the line was misinterpreted, leading to substantially different English
Green = Nuance clarification/fandom confusion- Fine as translation, but has lead to certain fandom arguments or interpretations that could be clarified, or missed implications specific to Dragon Ball
Blue = Strength Checker - Some extra or missing implications in the English line relevant primarily/only to power discussions

Battle of Gods/Universe 6 arc

1) Sorbet getting "flown down" (Volume 1 interstitial)

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This one's pretty well-known, from an interstitial following Chapter 5.

"I... was flown down here" (Viz).
"と...とばされた… / W-...We've been skipped..."

What happened? Misinterpreting the passive use of a Japanese verb that can mean either "to fly (something)" or "to skip over."

Influence: Nothing major. Just a notable gaffe that has to be noted here for completeness. Sorbet's line certainly makes a bit less sense in the published version.

2) Frost tidbits(Chapter 9)

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"He's the strongest warrior in our universe." (Viz)
"我が宇宙最強の拳闘士なんですよ / "He is our universe's strongest prize fighter, after all."

What happened? 拳闘士--normally used for boxers, gladiators, and all manner of sporting/arena fighters--is slightly broadened into "warrior." I went with "prize fighter" above. He's a pugilist. 拳闘士 is not a word Dragon Ball usually trots out for its fighters, so the job distinction seems to be intentional. It also fits in with Frost's motivations for cheating, not wanting to waste time and effort on a tournament which "has no prizes."

Impact: The field of Frost's competition is certainly broadened. In addition to removing a bit of clarification about his background, the English line could potentially cause confusion with regards to how he stacks up to his teammate Hit.

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"I hope that's not what's going to happen to me..." (Viz)
"私とは違うといいのだが… / Then let's hope I am different from him."

Context: After Frost asks what happened to his Universe 7 counterpart, Goku tells him he's better off not knowing, and we get the exchange above.

What happened? Nothing really wrong with the translation in a bubble, but it misses a fun obvious double-meaning for Dragon Ball. Frost's line can be read in Japanese as either being limited to Freeza's defeat, or applying to differences from Freeza generally.

Impact: None really, but a bit of the cleverness of the exchange is lost, and it's a moment I personally liked. Kind of backs up Goku's recurring hopes for Freeza's redemption as well, which come out in both Resurrection "F" and the Universal Survival arc.

3) Hit weirdness (Chapters 12-13)

Several lines in the English release wind up obscuring how Hit's techniques work and what his character arc is.

A)
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"Then I will just have to travel even farther into the future." (Viz)
"オレはその先を行くのみ / Then I'll just have to out-predict that."

To which Goku responds:
"じゃオラはさらにその動きを予想すっぞ!! / Then I'll just predict your prediction!!"

The official English here is fairly nonsensical. Hit is never increasing the length of his Time Skip. It's just a comical game of escalating out-predictions.

What happened? I can't hazard a guess. Hit's Japanese is a bit of an ambiguous "go one step beyond," but it should be contextually clear he's talking about the predictions, not the length of the Time Skip. Goku's dialogue is about further outpredicting movement, so I'm not sure where the "faster" comes from, other than committing to the misreading of Hit's line.

Impact: The entire purpose and arguably comedy of this scene is lost, and a power of Hit to increase the length of the Time Skip that was never present in the original is introduced.

B)
There's dialogue about how openly Goku and Hit are sharing strategies with each other and what's up with Hit's hands and pockets that all gets a bit jumbled in English.

Midway through the fight, both versions communicate that Hit uses his pockets to conceal his pre-Time Skip movements because, Goku surmises, it's too difficult for him to course-correct into something unpredictable once he's given a physical tell. Hit responds by removing his hands from his coat to rise to Goku's challenge and attempt visible feints. Viz's release handles this all fine. However, there's an issue with a line toward the end.

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"Then I can keep my hands hidden without worry." (Viz)
"ただし今回は遠慮なく手元を隠させてもらうぞ / However, this time I'm not giving any hints." (Lit. "This time, I won't be holding back and will be keeping my hands hidden.")

The English version is unclear about why Hit should have been "worried" about keeping his hands hidden prior, and why that's no longer an issue for him now. It obfuscates the reason for hiding his hands in the first place, along with his interest in rising to Goku's challenge having prompted him to remove them before. The Japanese version is comparatively clear about Hit feeling he has the most advantage when concealing his limbs, attempting to rise to the challenge of open feints, and then respectfully saying he won't offer handicaps before the final all-or-nothing stand-off.

What happened? I don't know. Maybe issues with 遠慮なく (without paying any mind about appearances/without holding back), which could become "without worry" in certain contexts.

Impact: I still frequently see fans confused by what's going on with manga Hit's hands, particularly in context of the final stand-off, and whether he has any changes in his character/dynamic with Goku over the course of the fight. More on that last bit below.

On chattiness and changing dynamics:

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Goku's "Your secrets are starting to come out..." is a callback to several previous lines of their fight, which gets a bit lost in English, where the repeated wording/contrast isn't present.

"Your secrets are starting to come out..." (Viz)
"おめぇも手の内を言うようになったんか / Now you're the one givin' your strategy away..."

From the start of their fight:

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"You revealed your stategy." (Viz)
"…手の内を明かすとは… / You've given your strategy away," with nearly identical wording to Goku's later return of the line above.

(Incidentally, Hit's "how naive" is more literally "Youth...," which might help explain why Goku goes into talking about his age afterward.)

There's one other instance of the line, coming from Piccolo as Goku further blabs about his approach.

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"あいつ…手の内をペラペラと… / That fool. He won't stop giving himself away!" (With identical phrasing again and an emphasizer)

What happened? Hard to say. Possibly just not checking the dialogue of previous chapters to find a way to make Goku's final line a sufficiently obvious callback/return-quip. I don't think the specific wording is important so long as that comes through.

Impact: Like hands in or out of pockets, how open Goku and Hit are about revealing their metaphorical hands during the fight is a throughline that helps track Hit warming up to Goku, and becoming as chatty as he first accuses him of being. The loss of those has left me feeling like I've talked past an English-only reader a time or two when talking about Hit's characterization or lack thereof in the manga. It's especially unfortunate because his minor but present change is one of the cruxes of the arc.

Future Trunks arc

1) Future Bulma's motivations (Volume 2 Interstitial)

Apparently Herms also pointed this out on release. From an interstitial following Chapter 14.

Image Image

"We only have enough for a one-way trip, but it should be all right once you get back. Or maybe the three of you should just go there, and the rest of us can carry on with our lives..." (Viz)
"燃料は片道分しかないけど、過去に行けばなんとかなるわよ。いっそのこと3人であっちで暮らすってのもアリじゃないかしら / We only have enough for a one-way trip, but once we get to the past, we should be able to figure something out. Or hey, maybe the three of us could just live there. That wouldn't be so bad..."

What happened? Boy, I don't know.

Impact: A throughline with Trunks initially wanting to run away to the past before finding resolve to both return for the fight and create a new timeline at the end misses some reinforcement. In addition, Trunks' speech to Vegeta during the climax of the arc about Future Bulma having wanted to see him also misses some extra context. Also, it's just wrong.

2) Goku vs. Trunks (Chapter 15)

As the two spar, we get the following exchange:

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"This is amazing, Trunks. You're so much better than Gohan from back then." (Viz)
"すげえぞ、トランクス。あの時の悟飯以上だ / Amazing, Trunks. You're even stronger than Gohan from back then."

Goku's line is nearly 1:1 with Vegeta's dialogue in Dragon Ball Chapter 458 in regards to Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Particularly the "あの時の悟飯以上だ / even stronger than Gohan from back then" bit. There is no additional emphasizer present in the Japanese Dragon Ball Super line.

Image

"さすがだな。あのときの悟飯以上のパワーだ!/ Impressive. You're even more powerful than Gohan from back then!"

What happened? No error here. Just not catching a reference to the original series in Japanese, or what impact adding an additional emphasizer in comparison to it might have.

Impact: Mostly consequences for strength discussions, as it led to some speculation that the scene was intended to imply a particularly great boost for Trunks in comparison to Cell arc Gohan. The jury's out on whether you want to read things that way, but at the very least the dialogue of the scene itself in Japanese doesn't lend any extra fuel to the fire.

3)The Great Priest is the strongest in ... what?(Chapter 18)

I don't believe this is a massive deal in comparison to some other entries on this list, but for completeness:

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"The Grand Priest, as far as I know, is the mightiest of all beings in the universe." (Viz)
"私が知る限り、この世界で最強なのがあの大神官様ですよ / The Great Priest, as far as I know, is the mightiest of all beings in the cosmos."

As you might guess, "universe" (Viz) is "世界/the world/existence/cosmos" in Japanese.

What happened? Pretty understandable. In 99 percent of cases, the swap of "universe" would be perfectly acceptable and even natural, but whoops, it's Dragon Ball Super where there are twelve universes.

Impact: Probably nill, as everyone could surely guess what the error was here, and the reason for it having happened. At the very least, I've never seen any arguments over this line.

Universal Survival arc

1) Vados' confidence in Kefla (Chapter 38)

This one is barely makes the list, but there's enough of an extra implication added to the English line that I think it's worth including just in case.

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"It seems this happy accident led to the ultimate warrior--with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, they can combine their respective strengths. In fact, Kefla may be unmatched on this battlefield." (Viz)
"偶然ですがこれはとんでもない戦士が誕生しましたね。ケールさんのパワーとカリフラさんの戦闘の才能、2人の長所が発揮されてます。これ以上の選手はいないかもしれません / It seems this happy accident has led to the ultimate warrior--with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, drawing on both their strengths. There may be no greater competitor."

This is probably a half-dozen-of-one, six-of-the-other situation, as "competitor" could easily be read as implying "in this current competition, as it stands," as the English version seems to have gone for. However, the Japanese allows for the possibility that Vados' line is more hypothetical in regards to an ideal combatant, rather than assessment of their on-the-field standings, which is probably of note primarily for strength debates. I plead the Fifth!

2) "Kefla is mine" (Chapter 38)

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"Kefla is mine." (Viz)
"ケフラさんは僕がなんとかします / I'll deal with Kefla somehow.” (In his usual polite wording, even attaching an honorific to Kefla's name.)

What happened? I honestly have no idea. It's an uncharacteristically drastic change from the Cook-era staff.

Impact: Should be self-explanatory, but fans did and continue to come at this line for a sudden fallback into Boo-arc cocky Gohan that isn't present originally.

3) Human vs. My own person (Chapter 39)

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"I choose to keep evolving as a human, not a Saiyan." (Viz)
"オレはサイヤ人としてではなく、1人の人間として進化する道を選んだ / I choose to evolve as my own person." (Lit. "I choose to keep evolving as an individual, not a Saiyan.") (Would probably cut the first “Saiyan” in English, due to repetition with the following bubble, which is more natural/tolerated in Japanese.)

What happened? I'd assume that the contrast of "not as a Saiyan" and "as a person" (the "person" in question here being the ningen you may be familiar with via Zamasu in the DBS TV anime) in one quotation in Japanese led to the choice of "human," but "1人の人間" usually pops up in real life with an "as a person/individual" meaning.

There's also no reason to include the "1人" counter if the intent were a contrast of "as a human (Earthling)." "人間" alone would suffice, with plural and singular distinctions not being required in Japanese.

Going with "human" (implication "Earthling") winds up feeling a bit too literal, causing some issues in Dragon Ball and with Gohan specifically. Namely inventing a conflict between his heritages when he's originally just getting at choosing his own martial-arts path. You could argue it's half-a-dozen-of-one, six-of-the-other, and I would definitely hedge away from calling this an error--it's even possible the team selected that wording even fully grasping the intent. But fan response to the reading of a heritage conflict has been persistent and was, I think, avoidable. Gohan is rejecting reliance on Saiyan genes/Super Saiyan in this scene, but he isn't really really offering the Saiyan-Earthling dichotomy in Japanese.

Impact: The arc itself suffers some criticism related to this beat and character implications that I don't think the original really intended. I understand why the line wound up this way, and it's a reading that's tempting at a glance, but also think there may have been a more careful wording around "human/person/individual" in this particular context.

4) Goku and Ultra Instinct (Chapter 40)

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"I need to keep growing. My days of letting everyone down are over." (Viz)
"オラだって成長するぞ。もう周りに惑わせんのはお終いだ / I'm gonna keep growing. I won't be distracted anymore." (Lit. "I'm through being distracted by the things around me.")

What happened? My best guess is that this was due to Goku's unusual dialect. 周りに惑わされる is a passive phrase for being caught up in things around you. ん is usually an ending used in place of the negative forms of verbs, and の a nominalizer, so reading that you might get "I'm through not being caught up in the things around me," spun into "I have to stop letting everyone down" (as in, I have to pay those around me more heed). However, that's a bit of a stretch. Goku sometimes uses んの specifically as a slurred, dialectical truncation of るの, a verb nominalizer. He's through getting caught up in things around him, rather than not doing so. It's just a bit unfortunate and confusing that in this case the slurred nominalizer and the truncated negative form wind up reading the same way.

Impact: The previous page makes it clear in English that suppressing his anger is a trigger, so the gist still comes through, but this additional line helps back up some of the issues he has with maintaining this particular form of clear-minded focus that come to bear in the Granolah arc.

5) Jiren forcing Goku out of Ultra Instinct (Chapter 41)

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"But when Goku's body reacts, it takes quite a toll on him." (Viz)
"こうなると体が勝手に動いてしまうことがかえって負担になってしまいます / At this rate, the body reacting on its own may conversely have become a burden."

After Jiren raises his speed and power in determination to counter Goku's Ultra Instinct, we get the following dialogue from Whis.

What happened? For space or simply for the flow of the line or for some other reason, the English version loses the causality between Goku's toll and Jiren's increase in speed. Goku's body automatically responding to Jiren at that level of speed/power is more than he can properly handle, and it's become a burden as much of an advantage, forcing him to keep up with the blows. Presumably, were Jiren not to have raised his speed and power, the toll on Goku would be less great.

Impact: This is a detail I rather liked in the original, as it makes Ultra Instinct Goku's loss more definitive. It isn't simply inexperience with the form, but rather how far Jiren has and continues to push him. In addition, it builds in a neat temporary weakness for the form, in that perfect response to attacks may require a level of energy drain the user is not equipped for--if the speed of the attacks requires responses too far above their normal capabilities. The English version reads as though Goku's UI simply gives out, whereas the implication more present in Japanese is that Jiren pushes him out of the form. Basically, Jiren winds up looking more impressive in the Japanese.

6) Vermoud's past (Chapter 41)

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"As a God of Destruction, I would never succumb to such weak thinking." (Viz)
"オレはあいつのそういうぬるい考えが大嫌いだから破壊神になったんだ / I hate that kind of weak thinking. That's why I became a God of Destruction."

What happened? Fine as a translation, but the causality between Vermoud's philosophy and his becoming a God of Destruction is obscured.

Impact: From the English, you might think Vermoud feels obligated to reject such "weak thinking" because of trying to live up to his post. The Japanese is more explicit about his rejection of that kind of thinking being what caused him to seek the post in the first place.

7) #17 is the savior of...? (Chapter 42)

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"It's nothing... For our universe's savior." (Viz)
"それぐらい当然だろ。キサマはすべての宇宙の救世主だからな / It's only natural... For the savior of the multiverse (lit. every universe)."

What happened? You could potentially interpret すべて (all/every) as being "the whole universe" in this case, but it's a stretch. The much more ready reading both structurally and in the context of the scene is the credit for saving not only Universe 7, but all of them together. Vegeta's line is a bit unwieldy in English no matter how you slice it, however.

Impact: Virtually none. Just a little difference.

8 ) #17's strength (Chapter 42)

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"I mean, take #17--the guy doesn't do much of anything, and he's somehow just about as strong as us." (Viz)
"17号のヤツ、特に何もしてねぇのに強さはオラとたいして変わらねぇ / Take #17--the guy doesn't do much of anything, and his strength wasn't so far off from mine."

What happened? Likely just an understandable wording choice without an eye toward the powerscaling squabbles it would cause for a particular genre of fan. "Us" vs. the singular "me" in Japanese is probably enough of a difference to make note of for that kind of discussion, as it lessens the leeway for his range of strength considerably.

Impact: Many strength debate headaches, with fans reading "as us" as being inclusive of everyone from Goku to Turtle Hermit. Although, really, I think it should be clear enough just from context that the "us" in English refers to himself and Vegeta, the only ones involved in the conversation at that point. It's understandable the official translation would have failed to account for fans trying to stretch it for strength debates.

Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc

1) "I wonder if you can grant this one..." (Chapter 48)

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"I wonder if you can grant this one..." (Viz)
"では最後の願いをかなえてもらおうか / Then, how about this one?" (Lit. "Then let's have you grant that last wish.") (Again, cutting a bit of redundancy from the suggested translation, as the panels above have Porunga telling Moro he has one wish remaining.)

What happened? Probably just a solid choice for voice and avoiding redundancy, as well as punching up a momentary cliffhanger.

Impact: However, this has wound up being a frequent source of criticism for the arc, which the original doesn't really earn. The revelation of the escaped prisoners chapters later has been held as insufficient payoff for a line as foreboding as "I wonder if you can grant this one..." In the original, Moro isn't actually wondering as to the grantability of his wish. The dangers of simultaneous publication.

Granolah the Survivor arc

1) Goku's failure with Destruction (Chapter 69)

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"Lord Beerus' signature move, huh? I kinda messed up that time I tried copying it." (Viz)
"ビルス様のあの技… 前にオラがマネしようとして失敗したんだよな… / Lord Beerus' signature move... I kinda messed up that time I tried copyin' it, huh?"

An extremely subtle difference. The English version loses the implication of "looks like / huh" (via だよな) from the Japanese, with Goku making a new assessment having seen the power produced from Beerus destroying Vegeta's armor.

What happened? Honestly, it's a fine wording without an eye for the fan arguments it might engender.

Impact: Quite a few people read the scene as implying Goku had failed wholesale in his use of Destruction against Zamasu in Chapter 25. Really, the destruction element of the technique went off fine. However, Goku realizes in the moment of this scene that there could be more to the technique.

2) Bardock's kind heart (Chapter 83)

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(Digital Japanese chapter unavailable; posted at time of release)

"I've got no doubt that kindness in your heart is gonna save someone else someday." (Viz)
"おまえに芽生えたその優しい心はきっと別の誰かを救うことになる / The kindness that's sprung up within you will probably save someone else someday."

What happened? The "budding/springing up" verb was likely a cut for speech-bubble space, but to me (Impact:) it was operative to the reading of the scene that it was a recent and uncertain development, and that Monaito was recognizing and rewarding its potential for future growth. It helps both Monaito and the series stay clear of going all in on Bardock being a hero, and helps maintain a focus on him being a bad man who was moved to do a bit of good on a whim, which lends a bit more nuance to the characters and scene. I did see a few fan critiques of the chapter aimed at this line on release.

3) Bardock's wish for his sons (Chapter 83)

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(Digital Japanese chapter unavailable; posted at time of release)

"I'd wish that my sons end up thriving." (Viz)
"オレの息子たちがすくすくとそだちますように…とでも願っといてくれ / I'd wish that my sons grow up healthy and strong." (Lit. "Wish for my sons to grow up healthy and strong," as a request to Monaito.)

What happened? Ordinally, "thrive" would be a perfectly good word for the Japanese phrase too, but I don't know that the English version wholly considered what runaway theories it would engender in fans imagining it might have influenced Goku's adulthood. Just a small oversight.

At any rate, if you believe Bardock actually got his wish granted through Toronbo--or simply want to humor what it would mean for the series were that to be the case--its range of effectiveness would likely just be up to Goku's adulthood--not beyond. The Japanese verb used is very much a "grow up" equivalent, and the "healthy and strong" (or "healthy and fast," if you're being extremely literal, though no one really says that in English) adverb is basically only ever used in regard to children.

Impact: Theories running rampant about how the wish, if indeed granted, might have protected Goku through adulthood, or the strangeness of said protection only applying to Goku and not to Raditz, that the original never truly leaves the possibility for.

Miscellaneous

1) The credits

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"Written by Akira Toriyama; Art by Toyotarou" (Viz)
"原作: 鳥山明; 漫画: とよたろう / Original Story: Akira Toriyama; Manga: Toyotaro"

What happened? This might be a wording mandate from Shueisha eager to preserve some higher level of crediting for Toriyama as ethos for the series--with the Japanese affording a bit more ambiguity--it may be drawing from precedent in other series where the 原作 and 漫画 credits truly have been used to credit scripter/artist divides (though there are other ways of doing this even among Jump series--it doesn't seem to be all that consistent), or it may be for some other reason. Who knows.

Regardless, we know Toyotaro scripts the actual chapters from his commentary in the back of each volume, as well as ancillary interviews, etc. Meanwhile, Toriyama provides plot outlines, with the (implicit) exception of the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc. Still, Toriyama's words are never what you're getting on the page, outside of his handful of corrected scenes. It's a bit of a glaring miscredit no matter how you come at it, and whatever the reasons behind it may be.

Impact: You have to be clued into online fandom or read back-of-volume interviews to actually cotton onto whose words you're reading in the bubbles. I don't think it's a stretch to say that's kind of awful, or that it's created confusion among casual readers from Chapter 1 to this day.
Last edited by Cipher on Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:13 am, edited 36 times in total.

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:11 pm

Oh, boy, this is good and useful thread.

Gonna take me some time to read all of it, but I'll be a good time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:20 pm

This is a great OP, congratulations and thanks so much for taking the time to put this all up.

As a question, where would you like this thread to go next? I don't imagine you're inviting people to pose you questions to answer on translation here, simply because that would be opening you up to an unreasonable burden on your own time (and the potential for tendentious requests is...huge), but given the asymmetry of knowledge between yourself as a reader of Japanese and the rest of us (who generally are very much not), I'm not sure there's much that most of us could otherwise contribute because we lack the means to identify the issues you recognise. Is this just something you want to come back to and update as you happen to notice extra potential translation issues?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:29 pm

Hopefully that 17 line can finally put to rest the ridiculous notion that 17 is just only SS3 tier in the manga.

He's Blue tier in both mediums.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:38 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:20 pm This is a great OP, congratulations and thanks so much for taking the time to put this all up.

As a question, where would you like this thread to go next? I don't imagine you're inviting people to pose you questions to answer on translation here, simply because that would be opening you up to an unreasonable burden on your own time (and the potential for tendentious requests is...huge), but given the asymmetry of knowledge between yourself as a reader of Japanese and the rest of us (who generally are very much not), I'm not sure there's much that most of us could otherwise contribute because we lack the means to identify the issues you recognise. Is this just something you want to come back to and update as you happen to notice extra potential translation issues?
I'm fine taking questions on the content of the post itself, or any other general responses, but primarily this was indeed just intended to be a reference and running catalogue if need be, as the first post is indefinitely editable.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Grimlock » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:47 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:29 pm Hopefully that 17 line can finally put to rest the ridiculous notion that 17 is just only SS3 tier in the manga.

He's Blue tier in both mediums.
Hum... So let me see if I get this straight and for the sake of clarification:

An android who didn't do anything special for the past thirteen years managed "to be Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan tier" (whatever that means), but somehow a Saiyan, who gets stronger during and after every battle, can't surpass Freeza after sixteen years? Is that it or am I missing something?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:17 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:47 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:29 pm Hopefully that 17 line can finally put to rest the ridiculous notion that 17 is just only SS3 tier in the manga.

He's Blue tier in both mediums.
Hum... So let me see if I get this straight and for the sake of clarification:

An android who didn't do anything special for the past thirteen years managed "to be Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan tier" (whatever that means), but somehow a Saiyan, who gets stronger during and after every battle, can't surpass Freeza after sixteen years? Is that it or am I missing something?
Yes.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Grimlock » Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:02 pm

Great! It's awesome when we can flat out tell how power levels are wrong and the fanbase also having their own discrepancies about it. It really makes everything pointless. Thank you for confirming it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by emperior » Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:14 am

Awesome thread! Thanks.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Skar » Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:16 am

Grimlock wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:02 pm Great! It's awesome when we can flat out tell how power levels are wrong and the fanbase also having their own discrepancies about it. It really makes everything pointless. Thank you for confirming it.
Well fans have always had their own discrepancies. Toriyama decided to bring back 17 and have him catch up to Goku without doing much. Regardless how strong you believe Goku is in base, he still needed five transformations and various types of training to get to 17's power by the ToP. If Beerus never woke up and led to them training with Whis, 17 would've been the strongest Z fighter by far.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:49 am

Re: Entry 15 (Bardock's wish for his sons) - part of me feels the phrasing issue for the fandom is as much with the "end up" part of the translation as anything, since it could be read in a way that means success as the state of things at the end of the lives in question is foreordained, rather than the process of growth into men being the thing in view. While parents might colloquially say of their adult children 'they ended up okay', making this a fine translation from that perspective, a close-reading fan might over-emphasise the 'end' part (to grow up is technically not to end up - life, after all, goes on, important events and challenging obstacles still occur, etc.).

Incidentally, I'm guessing that Bardock's wish as stated has an echo of Gine's "Grow up big and strong, my little Kakarrot!" (even if not the exact same Japanese wording?) from Chapter 77, which would in turn link back to Minus in Bardock citing Gine's specific influence on him as a reason why he's interested in saving Kakarrot later on.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:36 pm

Don’t forget Goku’s “you’re so much better than Gohan from back than!” :lol:

I’ve seen people say that when Vados calls Frost U6’s strongest fighter in Chapter 9, she’s actually saying he’s their best hand to hand fighter. Is this correct?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:47 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:36 pm Don’t forget Goku’s “you’re so much better than Gohan from back than!” :lol:

I’ve seen people say that when Vados calls Frost U6’s strongest fighter in Chapter 9, she’s actually saying he’s their best hand to hand fighter. Is this correct?
The Trunks line is one I intend to get at in a Strength Checker thread, as I don’t think the translation of the line itself has any issues or poses any problems—just it not coming through 1:1 with Vegeta’s comment in the previous series (different translator/scripter and all). I don’t know. Maybe the emphasizer makes it a borderline case.

I might have to look at the Frost line in English. Yes, iirc that is the case for the Japanese. She calls him one of their best prize-fighters, but I don’t recall what if any strength comments go alongside it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by The Accountant » Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:23 am

This is really great!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:48 am

4/26 Update: I've added four additional entries (two on Frost, combined into one, one on Goku vs. Trunks, and one on Vermoud's past that was pointed out by Herms).

In addition, I restructured the post to add numbering within each arc, which should make any future additions easier, and color-coded each entry for further context to identify what seem to be genuine errors, small nuance/fandom confusion quibbles, and strength-discussion impact.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:49 am Incidentally, I'm guessing that Bardock's wish as stated has an echo of Gine's "Grow up big and strong, my little Kakarrot!" (even if not the exact same Japanese wording?) from Chapter 77, which would in turn link back to Minus in Bardock citing Gine's specific influence on him as a reason why he's interested in saving Kakarrot later on.
Unfortunately I'm not currently around my print copy of Volume 18 to check, but I'm certain the wording is different.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:44 am

Really great thread, thanks for the effort!

I'm sure it will be very useful for future chapters too, and to clear any other potential misunderstandings regarding translations that are not covered by the thread yet.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Skarsolos » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:32 pm

Thank you for this, it has been very educational.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:25 am

Excellent thread, wishful thinking but would be neato if all of these managed to get patched into the official TL or another TL of sorts elsewhere.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:19 am

Shorty GZ2 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:25 am Excellent thread, wishful thinking but would be neato if all of these managed to get patched into the official TL or another TL of sorts elsewhere.
Feel free to write Viz on my behalf! Some of these I think are genuinely just quibbles, but Volumes 1 and 2 have things I’d truly love to see/think are worth correcting for future printings or even just digitally.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:20 pm

Cipher wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:19 am
Shorty GZ2 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:25 am Excellent thread, wishful thinking but would be neato if all of these managed to get patched into the official TL or another TL of sorts elsewhere.
Feel free to write Viz on my behalf! Some of these I think are genuinely just quibbles, but Volumes 1 and 2 have things I’d truly love to see/think are worth correcting for future printings or even just digitally.
Hmm, how could that be done? I assumed most avenues either didn't exist or were closed down due to harassment/brigading (in case of Caleb Cook's Twitter).

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