Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:23 pm

Might a nuance entry for the Granolah arc's "strongest"/"mightiest"/"#1 in the Universe" be worth adding?

I think you've commented before on how, while the translations are perfectly reasonable, use of 'strength' descriptors in translation have led to Anglophone fans being puzzled when techniques like Shunkan Idou (which aren't immediately related to a bald understanding of 'strength' but make sense as weapons in an arsenal that help to make their user '#1') have been used in combat by Granolah or Gas.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:34 pm

Shorty GZ2 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:20 pm Hmm, how could that be done? I assumed most avenues either didn't exist or were closed down due to harassment/brigading (in case of Caleb Cook's Twitter).
https://www.viz.com/company-contact (General contact form), or polite requests to the company’s main Twitter might work!

I’m glad you brought up Cook’s Twitter troubles, since that’s exactly the kind of thing I spent three paragraphs at the top of the post trying to discourage, and something that held me off on making a thread like this in the first place. I would say definitely do not lobby individual staff members, as usually the calls on edits aren’t theirs to make.
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:23 pm Might a nuance entry for the Granolah arc's "strongest"/"mightiest"/"#1 in the Universe" be worth adding?

I think you've commented before on how, while the translations are perfectly reasonable, use of 'strength' descriptors in translation have led to Anglophone fans being puzzled when techniques like Shunkan Idou (which aren't immediately related to a bald understanding of 'strength' but make sense as weapons in an arsenal that help to make their user '#1') have been used in combat by Granolah or Gas.
To be fair, the Japense flip flops between just “#1 warrior” (and equivalently vague phrasing for “most powerful”) and “strongest” too. I’d probably just have to see if the English mixes them up to the same extent.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:14 am

Thanks for making this thread. This has been very useful especially the one pertaining to UI Goku vs. Jiren and Hit vs. SSJ Goku.

Would you mind shedding some light on Android 18's statement here?

It doesn't make sense for Android 18 to question if Goku had returned stronger with Piccolo responding with, "I don't know" when Piccolo confirmed that Goku had already returned much stronger in his Blue form and it should be obvious to the readers that Goku returned stronger. It seems more appropriate that Android 18 was questioning whether or not Goku was powerful enough to win against Moro. I'm hoping you can provide some clarification on the matter.
Last edited by Goku9001 on Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:35 am

Goku9001 wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:14 am It doesn't make sense for Android 18 to question if Goku had returned stronger with Piccolo responding with, "I don't know" when Piccolo confirmed that Goku had already returned much stronger in his Blue form and it should be obvious to the readers that Goku returned stronger. It seems more appropriate that Android 18 was questioning whether or not Goku was powerful enough to win against Moro. I'm hoping you can provide some clarification on the matter.
#18’s question is along the lines of, “Did he come back with some incredible power?”

But even in English, I feel like it’s pretty clear that the intent is “Is he way stronger than before?”

Also, if that’s a link to a pirated source, please remove it!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:29 am

Cipher wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:35 am
Goku9001 wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:14 am It doesn't make sense for Android 18 to question if Goku had returned stronger with Piccolo responding with, "I don't know" when Piccolo confirmed that Goku had already returned much stronger in his Blue form and it should be obvious to the readers that Goku returned stronger. It seems more appropriate that Android 18 was questioning whether or not Goku was powerful enough to win against Moro. I'm hoping you can provide some clarification on the matter.
#18’s question is along the lines of, “Did he come back with some incredible power?”

But even in English, I feel like it’s pretty clear that the intent is “Is he way stronger than before?”

Also, if that’s a link to a pirated source, please remove it!
Noted.

That's also disappointing to hear. It seems oddly confusing seeing as how Piccolo acknowledges that SSJB Goku did get stronger. Thanks for the clarification nonetheless.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:12 pm

Hmm, what about the portion where Piccolo says "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength" (which is only esp true in a loose context/sense) & Goku describing Moro as him never coming across someone as "tough" as him (which ppl quibble over if it just means Moro's durability or his strength overall)?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:14 pm

Shorty GZ2 wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:12 pm Hmm, what about the portion where Piccolo says "Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength" (which is only esp true in a loose context/sense) & Goku describing Moro as him never coming across someone as "tough" as him (which ppl quibble over if it just means Moro's durability or his strength overall)?
There’s nothing wrong or meaningfully nuance-affecting with the English for those lines.

For Moro, if you’re aware “tough” is frequently used for durability in Japanese pop media, you’re aware of the only potential translation talking point for that line. I am working on an actual Strength Checker thread for those kinds of notes and as a general reference, but I don’t think it warrants an entry in this thread.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:29 pm

Cipher wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:39 pm
"Written by Akira Toriyama; Art by Toyotarou" (Viz)
"原作: 鳥山明; 漫画: とよたろう / Original Story: Akira Toriyama; Manga: Toyotaro"

What happened? This might be a wording mandate from Shueisha
Quite probable. This kind of translation i very, VERY common in official foreign editions of many manga, not only by Shueisha

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:57 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:29 pm Quite probable. This kind of translation i very, VERY common in official foreign editions of many manga, not only by Shueisha
I’m not aware of any other examples where the actual script-writer isn’t being credited with the script though.

I don’t think “manga” needs to be left as-is, but the current English credits are only listing Toyotaro for art, which isn’t accurate no matter how you slice it, as he writes the dialogue too. The Japanese crediting is broader.

“Original Story by Toriyama, Series by Toyotaro” would take care of it just fine.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Yuji » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:21 pm

If I can make a request, I see a lot of fans confused when Goku states Granolah is even faster than Shunkan Idou, though to me the intent is quite clear. Is the wording significantly different in Japanese?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Koitsukai » Sun May 01, 2022 12:27 pm

If it isn't too much to ask, I was just wondering about this:

Toppo telling Goku that Jiren is above Vermoud in battle power alone.
I believe the phrasing makes it look like the edge might be only in battle power, but I've read that the same phrasing was used in the Saiyan and Namek arc. So is the implication that Jiren is plainly stronger than Vermoud or was there any room left for Vermoud to actually be able to defeat Jiren, even if his battle power is lower?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Mon May 02, 2022 9:00 am

Koitsukai wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 12:27 pm If it isn't too much to ask, I was just wondering about this:

Toppo telling Goku that Jiren is above Vermoud in battle power alone.
I believe the phrasing makes it look like the edge might be only in battle power, but I've read that the same phrasing was used in the Saiyan and Namek arc. So is the implication that Jiren is plainly stronger than Vermoud or was there any room left for Vermoud to actually be able to defeat Jiren, even if his battle power is lower?
This is one I’d actually like to add. (And yes, the implication is that Jiren is stronger in the traditional sense but that Vermoud may still have a leg up on him in other ways.)

Re: The Granolah question above: The Japanese is a little ambiguous as well, but I’ll check the English again. Iirc it was pretty spot-on though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Tue May 03, 2022 10:29 am

This might be small but I wanted to bring it up if it is a quibble. In chapter 19, Beerus uses Hakai/Destruction on Zamasu & seems that he says it/its name in the original JP but just says "Begone" in the Viz TL.

Image

It may not be/look like a big deal (besides a drawing error where Beerus switches standing position & arm doing the Hakai lol), but I've seen some people try to use Beerus not saying Destruction in the English page to posit that Beerus didn't actually use it there and that he just simply ki blasted Zamasu into sand (to which they extend this "not actually Destruction, was actually a ki blast" notion to Goku using it vs Zamasu in chap 25 (which he later describes in chap 69 as him messing up trying to copy it) & Granolah destroying the ground piece in chap 70 which Macki interprets as it being "magic he's tossing about", plus Goku having maybe or maybe not used it on the rock over Moro in chap 65), based on the chap 70 explanation of Hakai by Beerus (possibly being a retcon? Even I'm kinda confused) as he corrects Vegeta's attempt to use it on a small rock (with a similar visual effect to the previous examples) as him only breaking it with a normal ki blast and then demonstrates the "real" Hakai which he remarks that the explosion's the "real highlight" of using it (and that Hakai which he shows off in the prior chapter also seemingly being the same explosion/blast he used on Vegeta to end their fight in chap 27).

Image

Image

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Tue May 03, 2022 7:24 pm

Re: Above: Please don’t put basically an entire scene in your post!

I’ll review the various Destruction mentions and see if they warrant an inclusion just for clarity. The first one probably does, as not “naming” it there could wind up confusing later references.

The sandify-ing technique is also Destruction, as Beerus does indeed say/name it when he kills Zamasu. The Japanese is just as ambiguous about how the difference between the sandify-ing and explosion-producing variants is accomplished, but both variants are referred to as Hakai/Destruction.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri May 06, 2022 3:09 pm

Cipher wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:57 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:29 pm Quite probable. This kind of translation i very, VERY common in official foreign editions of many manga, not only by Shueisha
I’m not aware of any other examples where the actual script-writer isn’t being credited with the script though.
A lot of Go Nagai-based collaborations and spinoffs, for example.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun May 08, 2022 9:15 am

I remembered a small translation error/quibble you highlighted once from Chapter 28, that you might consider for inclusion in this topic also - Belmod saying "I was going to destroy this planet, anyway" (Viz), which implies he isn't on his own planet (which he is) - when he's actually noting that he was intending to destroy whatever planet the party girls were from (I think?).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cipher » Mon May 09, 2022 7:22 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:15 am I remembered a small translation error/quibble you highlighted once from Chapter 28, that you might consider for inclusion in this topic also - Belmod saying "I was going to destroy this planet, anyway" (Viz), which implies he isn't on his own planet (which he is) - when he's actually noting that he was intending to destroy whatever planet the party girls were from (I think?).
Oh, yeah! That's an oddity too. I'll get that in next update. I believe Herms noted that once as well.

Yes, Vermoud's comment in Japanese is that the three girls entertaining him are from a planet he intends to destroy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Goku9001 » Wed May 11, 2022 4:43 am

Hey Cipher, when Whis talks about Roshi's application of Ultra Instinct, is Whis referring to Roshi applying a rudimentary form of Ultra Instinct or a technique similar to it in principle? The way the Viz refers to it has Whis saying there's a "strong resemblance" and that it is "farcry from the technique" but "similar in principle". This makes me believe it's not Ultra Instinct but a technique that is derivative of it but maybe you can shed some light on that?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Cold Skin » Mon May 16, 2022 12:37 pm

It's interesting to compare the way translators interpret things and choose to convey them.
So let's add the official French translation into the mix, since the lady in charge of the French translation is a long-time fan in charge of all DB books for almost 20 years now and trusted with many well-known works (Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, Seven Deadly Sins, Ranma 1/2 and dozens of others...).
So it's interesting to have her take among other takes.

Don't forget that it's supposed to be in French, so I'm translating it to English, which may explain why some sentences might seem clumsy to you, but it actually flows in a perfectly natural way in French.

SORBET LAMENTING ABOUT THE RESURRECTION ‘F’ SKIP

Original: と...とばされた…
Cipher: W-...We've been skipped...
Viz: I... was flown down here
French: They skipped us…

FROST DESCRIBED BY VADOS

Original: 我が宇宙最強の拳闘士なんですよ
Cipher: He is our universe's strongest prize fighter, after all.
Viz: He's the strongest warrior in our universe.
French: He’s the best fighter in our universe.

FROST COMPARED TO FREEZA

Original: 私とは違うといいのだが…
Cipher: Then let's hope I am different from him.
Viz: I hope that's not what's going to happen to me...
French: I hope it’s not going to be the same for me…

ESCALATION AGAINST HIT

Original: Hit: オレはその先を行くのみ Goku: じゃオラはさらにその動きを予想すっぞ!!
Cipher: Hit : Then I'll just have to out-predict that. - Goku : Then I'll just predict your prediction!!
Viz: Hit : Then I will just have to travel even farther into the future. - Goku : Then I’ll just have to predict that even faster !
French: Hit : Then you will always be one step behind me. - Goku : Not if I manage to predict two steps ahead !!

HIT GUESSING GOKU IS YOUNG

Original: …手の内を明かすとは…
Cipher: You've given your strategy away… Youth…
Viz: You revealed your stategy. How naive…
French: You’re revealing your plan to me… Ah, youngsters…

PICCOLO ABOUT GOKU SHARING HIS OBSERVATIONS

Original: あいつ…手の内をペラペラと…
Cipher: That fool. He won't stop giving himself away!
Viz: That fool, he’s revealing his strategy !
French: He’s handing him all of his observations on a plate...

GOKU POINTING OUT HIT’S REVELATIONS

Original: おめぇも手の内を言うようになったんか
Cipher: Now you're the one givin' your strategy away...
Viz: Your secrets are starting to come out...
French: You’re starting to tell me about your plans too?

HIT HIDING HIS HANDS

Original: ただし今回は遠慮なく手元を隠させてもらうぞ
Cipher: However, this time I'm not giving any hints.
Viz: Then I can keep my hands hidden without worry.
French: I’ll be more than happy to hide my hands this time.

BULMA ABOUT AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION

Original: 燃料は片道分しかないけど、過去に行けばなんとかなるわよ。いっそのこと3人であっちで暮らすってのもアリじゃないかしら
Cipher: We only have enough for a one-way trip, but once we get to the past, we should be able to figure something out. Or hey, maybe the three of us could just live there. That wouldn't be so bad…
Viz: We only have enough for a one-way trip, but it should be all right once you get back. Or maybe the three of you should just go there, and the rest of us can carry on with our lives...
French: There’s not enough fuel for a round trip, but once in the past, we’ll be able to manage. At worst, we can even stay and live there, all three of us!

GOKU SEEING TRUNKS’ NEW LEVEL

Original: すげえぞ、トランクス。あの時の悟飯以上だ
Cipher: Amazing, Trunks. You're even stronger than Gohan from back then.
Viz: This is amazing, Trunks. You're so much better than Gohan from back then.
French: Congrats, Trunks. You’ve gone beyond Gohan’s level from back then.

THE GREAT PRIEST’S POWER ACCORDING TO WHIS

Original: 私が知る限り、この世界で最強なのがあの大神官様ですよ
Cipher: The Great Priest, as far as I know, is the mightiest of all beings in the cosmos."
Viz: The Grand Priest, as far as I know, is the mightiest of all beings in the universe.
French: There is no being more powerful, as far as I know.

BEERUS USING DESTRUCTION AGAINST ZAMASU

Cipher: Destruction !
Viz: Begone !!
French: Destruction !

VERMOUDH PLANNING TO BLOW UP A PLANET

Viz: I was going to destroy this planet, anyway.
French: I had planned to blow up this planet anyway...

VADOS ABOUT KAFLA

Original: 偶然ですがこれはとんでもない戦士が誕生しましたね。ケールさんのパワーとカリフラさんの戦闘の才能、2人の長所が発揮されてます。これ以上の選手はいないかもしれません
Cipher: It seems this happy accident has led to the ultimate warrior--with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, drawing on both their strengths. There may be no greater competitor."
Viz: It seems this happy accident led to the ultimate warrior--with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, they can combine their respective strengths. In fact, Kefla may be unmatched on this battlefield.
French: This association has given birth to a phenomenal warrior. Kale’s power combined with Caulifla’s skill lets them reinforce both their strengths. I think nobody will be able to surpass her.

GOHAN TAKING CARE OF KAFLA

Original: ケフラさんは僕がなんとかします
Cipher: I'll deal with Kefla somehow.
Viz: Kefla is mine.
French: I’ll deal with Kafla.

GOHAN ABOUT HIS PATH OF EVOLUTION

Original: オレはサイヤ人としてではなく、1人の人間として進化する道を選んだ
Cipher: I choose to evolve as my own person.
Viz: I choose to keep evolving as a human, not a Saiyan.
French: I chose to progress as an individual, not as a Saiyan.

GOKU REACHING A STABLE ULTRA INSTINCT SIGN

Original: オラだって成長するぞ。もう周りに惑わせんのはお終いだ
Cipher: I'm gonna keep growing. I won't be distracted anymore.
Viz: I need to keep growing. My days of letting everyone down are over.
French: I’m evolving too. I won’t let the context distract me anymore.

GOKU’S ULTRA INSTINCT BEING TIME-LIMITED

Original: こうなると体が勝手に動いてしまうことがかえって負担になってしまいます
Cipher: At this rate, the body reacting on its own may conversely have become a burden."
Viz: But when Goku's body reacts, it takes quite a toll on him.
French: And since the latter adapts his movements to match, the weight of the effort becomes heavier and heavier on his organism.

VERMOUDH ABOUT TEAM WORK

Original: オレはあいつのそういうぬるい考えが大嫌いだから破壊神になったんだ
Cipher: I hate that kind of weak thinking. That's why I became a God of Destruction.
Viz: As a God of Destruction, I would never succumb to such weak thinking.
French: It’s because I disagreed with his soppy philosophy that I became a God of Destruction.

C-17, OUR SAVIOR

Original: それぐらい当然だろ。キサマはすべての宇宙の救世主だからな
Cipher: It's only natural... For the savior of the multiverse.
Viz: It's nothing... For our universe's savior.
French: It’s the least we can do. You’re the savior of all universes.

GOKU ABOUT C-17

Original: 17号のヤツ、特に何もしてねぇのに強さはオラとたいして変わらねぇ
Cipher: Take #17--the guy doesn't do much of anything, and his strength wasn't so far off from mine.
Viz: I mean, take #17--the guy doesn't do much of anything, and he's somehow just about as strong as us.
French: I’m also astounded by C-17’s progress. He’s about the same level as me, without doing anything at all. I wonder why…

MORO ABOUT TO MAKE HIS WISH

Original: では最後の願いをかなえてもらおうか
Cipher: Then, how about this one?
Viz: I wonder if you can grant this one...
French: Then listen to me carefully.

C-18 WHEN GOKU TURNS ULTRA INSTINCT SIGN AGAINST MORO

Cipher: Did he come back with some incredible power?
French: So ? How much has he improved ?

PICCOLO ABOUT VEGETA ASSESSING OPPONENTS CORRECTLY

Viz: Vegeta's never been one to misread an opponent's strength
French: He’s not the kind to wrongly assess his opponent’s strength...

GOKU ABOUT DESTRUCTION

Original: ビルス様のあの技… 前にオラがマネしようとして失敗したんだよな…
Cipher: Lord Beerus' signature move... I kinda messed up that time I tried copyin' it, huh?
Viz: Lord Beerus' signature move, huh? I kinda messed up that time I tried copying it.
French: I’ve tried to copy this move before, unsuccessfully…

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Re: Dragon Ball Super - Viz Translation Checker/Quibbles

Post by Goku9001 » Mon May 16, 2022 5:56 pm

Thanks for the translation on Android 18's statement. That translation makes so much more sense given that it was already established that Blue Goku had progressed significantly. I think the French translation is more accurate under this context.

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