Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Ten na nGael
Newbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:24 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ten na nGael » Fri May 27, 2022 5:39 am

batistabus wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:34 pm I think back to Goku's training with Popo where he is taught to avoid wasted movements. Since that philosophy jives with Migatte no Gokui, I wouldn't necessarily expect environmental destruction from simple movement.
Yes actually I understand what you mean, as well as the rest of what you wrote. For that reason...
batistabus wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 12:34 pm I think I pretty much agree. I think the fights in Super rarely exceed the scale of the Boo arc (characters flying around the planet in an instant, screaming through dimensions, killing everyone on the planet at once, etc.). There are a few exceptions like Beerus vs Champa, DBS Broly, and some stuff from the last two arcs. Other than that, you're right that - to some extent - we have to just assume these fights are at a higher scale because we're told the characters are powerful.
This is a better way way of putting it than I did. In a sense it's easily possible to do this. Vegeta flies up to Gas and punches him in pretty much the same manner and with the same basic effects on the ground when Gas slams into it as when he did the same stuff to Zarbon and Dodaria in 1990. You can just imagine that the former occurs in a fraction of the time the latter did and thus is more "extreme". It's just for me I'd like the art to convey more of that more often, e.g. at least the crater upon hitting the ground should be bigger etc.

This isn't a plea for more accurate physics or anything, just it feels underwhelming a lot of the time since a large part of DB's draw is ridiculous martial arts. Of course, related to your previous comment, it doesn't necessarily have to be extreme environmental damage, there could be more imaginative and fun ways of conveying the higher scale. An example is how Goku was portrayed as seemingly standing still when fighting Burter and Jeice with only a small depression in the grass. Anyway I'm not a martial arts manga artist so I don't know how to do it, but hopefully you get what I mean.

User avatar
Nistarkail
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:32 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nistarkail » Sat May 28, 2022 9:13 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:55 pm
Ten na nGael wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 5:33 am [*] The Heaters are also generic Toei movie style enemies. They're very like the space pirates from Movie 9. They're missing the weirdness you'd expect from a Dragonball villian.
The Heeters are a mixed bag for me at the moment. When they were first announced, everyone thought they would be a discounted Bojack gang and in the early sections of the arc they proved to be a very interesting group (that didn't focused solely on strength) with fun dynamics. My problem with them now is that while I still find their dynamics fun, most of them aren't really being developed.

Elec is the most interesting of the bunch, largely because of the mysterious nature of his plans and the fact that he doesn't fall into the category of a power-seeking villain.

Macki has charm as a character (her moment with Chi-Chi in the beginning and later with Goku and Vegeta in the space ship, with her playing the good girl role were pretty cool), but she hasn't been doing much overall.

Oil is kinda...there, I guess? He makes some jokes but that's it, I'm indifferent about him

And to be honest I think Gas has potential and there are some aspects of him that can be explored. His blind devotion to Elec, what he went through after being defeated by Bardock (Elec losing trust in him and that's why he hired Granolah), and the fact that he's different from the other villains in the sense that he's basically a loser who tries too hard to look intimidating (as we saw in the galactic prison scene) because that's what Elec and his brothers expect of him, and he needs to play that role as the muscle of the group. He needs to live up to those expectations. But, unfortunately, as things stand, he hasn't been very interesting.
... And Elec will dispose of his little brother at the end of these chapters. We have to understand how he really expressed the wish, because ofhe knows very well how big is the price in exchange of power; after all, he has a lot of data from Zuno's answers and the DNA of OG-73 to create the most dangerous army in the universe. Maybe he will transplant part of this power in the body of his future soldiers, but who knows.

Regarding the big discussion about Bardock's wish, the thing is that this Dragon is the easiest to invoke, but the most dangerous at same time. For every wish made until now, there was always a different interpretation from the Dragon and for the first time even a salty price to pay.

1) Granolah wanted to become the strongest mortal in his universe? Ok, the Dragon condensed his Ki to the maximum plateau and gave him all the techniques and skills available in the present and in the future of Universe 7.

Price: 99% of Granolah's life.

2) Bardock's just wanted that his sons would grow up strong and well. The Dragon provided a ridiculous amount of luck for both of them until the two brothers met each other.

Price: life of Goku and Radditz.

My real doubt is if Gas and Granolah can use their powers against deities like Kaioshin or Kibith. Differently from Kami, they are beings related to Angels and Gods of Destruction. So I'm really confused about the effectiveness of their power.

User avatar
l0r3n2o
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 11:18 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by l0r3n2o » Tue May 31, 2022 11:42 am

Hi people, "long-time lurker, first time poster" here. Just a curious thing I noticed in this chapter, there are a lot of errors regarding Vegeta's ear ring, It disappears several times before and during the fight with Gas. Is it Toyotaro's fault or are there some corrections by Toriyama? Asking to the experts who can recognize a correction :D
Are there some other chapters that have so much errors in the manga?

User avatar
batistabus
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 2108
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:55 pm
Location: DBS:SH

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue May 31, 2022 12:08 pm

l0r3n2o wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:42 am Hi people, "long-time lurker, first time poster" here. Just a curious thing I noticed in this chapter, there are a lot of errors regarding Vegeta's ear ring, It disappears several times before and during the fight with Gas. Is it Toyotaro's fault or are there some corrections by Toriyama? Asking to the experts who can recognize a correction :D
Are there some other chapters that have so much errors in the manga?
Welcome!

It's Toyotaro's fault. He apologized for it on Twitter:
You could probably also blame Victory Uchida - Toyotaro's editor - who might not have caught it in the final draft. Even if he did, they might've decided to just fix it for the collected volume release.

Nothing stands out to me as a Toriyama correction. Even if Toriyama did do a correction, Toyotaro redraws/traces the correction and would still be responsible for drawing the earring.

User avatar
Goku9001
Regular
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:37 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:54 pm

Seems like there were some visual errors present in this chapter such as when Elec is shown with a beard in one panel and then shown without a beard soon after.

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:26 pm

The entire manga would be better off if it were weekly. There's just no time for it to focus on anyone else or for there to be a light hearted breather Great Saiyaman arc style.

They can't even attempt that because people aren't going to wait around a month for a new chapter to see anything other than fighting.

It's like they finished a multi chapter long fight with Jiren in Chapter 42 and they were already fighting the next main villain by Chapter 44.

This is where the anime was better really because it did pace things more smoothly.

kemuri07
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 999
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:29 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:26 pm The entire manga would be better off if it were weekly. There's just no time for it to focus on anyone else or for there to be a light hearted breather Great Saiyaman arc style.

They can't even attempt that because people aren't going to wait around a month for a new chapter to see anything other than fighting.

It's like they finished a multi chapter long fight with Jiren in Chapter 42 and they were already fighting the next main villain by Chapter 44.

This is where the anime was better really because it did pace things more smoothly.
While I agree that the monthly format is killing this arc, I don't agree that the anime is paced any better. One of the things that absolutely made the anime unwatchable for me is how it dragged out its story. So for every couple of episodes where an interesting plot development might happen, you have several weeks of total bullshit.

Granted, I don't even think the problem with Super is inherently that its a monthly comic; I didn't feel this way about the Moro arc (it's the only one I followed monthly, since by the time I started reading Super proper, I could binge most of the chapters up into that the point); my only answer is that Granola arc would have been bad even if it was a weekly comic. The problem here isn't that there isn't enough story. In fact, Granola has plot like crazy. The problem is that this arc is largely uncertain of what it wants to be about, so there's no dramatic tension at all. The monthly format only exacerbates this problem.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3737
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:54 pm

Again, many overreacted about the wish supposedly taking away from Goku's personal achievements. So far the official explanation is that the wish helped Goku thrive by being saved from planet Vegeta's destruction. Which is by mortal means too, through Bardock. This is exactly why Minaito said Bardock has to live since his kindness will no doubt save another someday [Ch.83]. Indeed it did, his son Goku.

I see nothing taking away from Kakarott's autonomy in his gains. As a matter of fact Bardock only contributes to that very aspect through his fight with Gas. Leaving Goku with a realization about one's internal will overcoming the dire circumstances set by destiny/fate. The very same concept Beerus was warning Vegeta about. People jumped the gun again.

User avatar
ChronoTwigger
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:45 pm
Location: PizzaLand

Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 84 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:28 pm

I'm still with my idea. In my language, a latin one, wishing 'thrive' for a son mean:
-To not suffer of illness
-To not suffer of deformity
-To be spared of sadness during childhood

In *NO* case this mean to be immortal, overboosted, or whatever. It's a common line. "Che la tua prole sia fiorente (o florida)" could also mean... sexually active, or rich!
On the broader sense, "important" - like becoming USA president...

What people is implying here is that any kid bestowed of such wish could technically survive Zeno erasing of the Universe, and you should understand how crazy is this...

I think Toriyama should write some line about, as the topic is splitting community and many rumors are spreading that "Dragon Ball Super made Kid Goku immortal" - and that's ***NOT*** what happened.
There wasn't any artificial plot armor at any point (out of the character roles obviously), or you should say that Bulma was covered too.

That said... I want for this arc to end. Now. Dragged for no reason, with an opponent that shouldn't be there since the start. I've thought it was Granolah Arc.
I learned english listening to songs. So I don't know anything about. The day you had to learn play piano by just listening .mp3, you'll understand.

Post Reply