A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Geraldo » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:06 pm

Imagine this:

1. Have Sorbet refer to the events of the mysterious demise of Guarana and his crew prior to his initial going to Earth (have us a flashback).

2. Frieza is revived, we then see what is his "special training program".

3. Sorbet explains that Frieza better have a training partner for this and saves Tagoma who's taken by Shisami to heal in a Medical Machine. We see a flashback of how Tagoma once saved Shisami's life in battle, so even though the bull hates him, he closed his debt to him.

4. Tagoma and Shisami are given a proper explaination for their quick growth in power by getting injected with some of Frieza's cloned DNA which causes them to undergo a mutation.

5. An explanation for why both Yamcha and Chiaotzu weren't there. Sorry in advance for this, but I can see them having a Covid like situation as a good example.

6. Have Sorbet's subordinates more involved in the story. Give them names and have them fight alongside the 1000 soldiers army: Master Roshi vs. the frog soldier, who after losing can transform into a monsterous toad who rivals Buff Roshi in terms of sheer power; Tien vs. the blue bouncer and Krillin vs. the beige bouncer.

7. A longer time of fighting Frieza's soldiers, and having an interim rank of Frieza's hired mercenaries take the front lines to battle the Z-Fighters in a much more satisfying way for both Frieza and the audience.

8. A proper battle of a decent amount of time between Shisami and Gohan who's holding back till Tagoma does his thing.

9. Portray Tagoma's demise as a frog either when Frieza transforms and kills his soldiers or when Frieza shoots his barrage at the deflecting Goku.

10. Explain to Frieza where Future Trunks came from (Goku: "I can't tell you where he is right now as he came from the future"); to make Frieza get angry that Saiyans can now travel in time. He seems to not care at all about the youth who killed him with ease.
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:53 pm

Not really. I always felt that the movie adaptations dragged, and as someone who already dislikes RF, I don’t think I can say that making the adaptation longer would’ve helped. The one element introduced in the anime adaptation that I kind of liked was the change they made with Tagoma, but that was just used as an excuse to bring back Ginyu.

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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:55 pm

The point of the arc was Freeza's personal revenge against the Saiyans: trying to extend it with a B-plot involving greater focus on his minions would be pointless filler as they'd be too weak to make a difference once Goku & Vegeta got involved, not counting the fact that Freeza might just kill them all out of spite for failing to succeed(which he did anyways). Freeza's minions only ever existed to do general labor for their master and take care of any resistance that he didn't want to bother with. They weren't meant to fight with him.
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Trouser » Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:43 am

No, Resurrection 'F' is literally the worst Dragon Ball Saga ever.
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Geraldo » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 pm

P.S. I wouldn't mind seeing King Kai's reactions to both Frieza's revival and to his invasion of Earth (especially when he humiliates Gohan with a barrage of finger beams while he's still in his hover chair). Just a minute here, a minute there, with Bubbles and Gregory on his side.

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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by BWri » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:11 pm

I wanted all of the movie turned anime arcs to be fleshed out more but in ways that enhanced the story rather than stalled for time. Neither of them did so and that was the worst way for Super to start as it basically wasted most of our time.

I think your suggestions do flesh things out and are similar to things many of us suggested before the arc hit the airwaves and after to express our frustration.

Seeing the negative reaction to the question, I think it would have been better to ask, "Would you prefer the RoF Saga to have a more sensible and fleshed out plot?" I think most would agree to that.
Geraldo wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:06 pm Tagoma and Shisami are given a proper explaination for their quick growth in power by getting injected with some of Frieza's cloned DNA which causes them to undergo a mutation.
I kind of like that. But what I'd do is have them train extensively with Frieza but be so messed up that not even the rejuvi tanks can properly fix them and so Frieza has them converted into mecha versions.
Frieza is revived, we then see what is his "special training program".
During this period, Champa and Vados were in Universe 7 gathering Super Dragon Balls under the radar. They had even bumped into some of Frieza's empire (encountering Garana who you previously mentioned). I had always wanted them to use Frieza as a distraction that would allow them to gather the Super Dragon Balls much easier as so Vados would train Frieza and this is how he would get god ki and learn to sense ki.
An explanation for why both Yamcha and Chiaotzu weren't there. Sorry in advance for this, but I can see them having a Covid like situation as a good example.
I think that they should either be there already or show up to assist the likes of Krillin, Tien and Roshi. Or like the Moro arc, Frieza's soldiers should travel around the globe leaving all the Z fighters to defend the planet from separate locations. The scenario was basically done better in the Moro arc.

Also, Frieza should either have more soldiers or they should be a little stronger to pose an actual challenge.

All in all, I wouldn't drag out the fight with Earthlings too long. It doesn't tie heavily into the main conflict of the movie which is Goku vs. Frieza, unless Frieza is actively trying to kill young Trunks which ties into your last idea ...

Explain to Frieza where Future Trunks came from (Goku: "I can't tell you where he is right now as he came from the future"); to make Frieza get angry that Saiyans can now travel in time. He seems to not care at all about the youth who killed him with ease.
I'd have Frieza go after young Trunks, hard. For that, I'd have him send his soldier to scour the globe looking for big Trunks and instead of Goku telling him about Future Trunks, I'd have someone else like Gohan or Vados tell him. Then when Frieza sees young Trunks fighting his soldiers, he flips and tries to kill him but the Earthlings, Piccolo, Gohan, 18, and Goten all defend him until Goku and Vegeta show up then the arc commences as normal, but I'd actually let Vegeta get the win since it virtually changes nothing to let him do so and makes for a more satisfying conclusion.
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Geraldo » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:21 am

Guarana and his crew were killed during the Battle of Gods Saga in the manga, as Beerus was toying with Goku.

Also, I didn't brought any idea which would not be an add-in to/on the existing material. I was only trying to flesh out plot holes and extend the length of the given saga.

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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Geraldo » Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:55 am

Throughout the scenes there could be more footage of Goku and Vegeta training under Whis and in his staff.

Also, a scene of how Piccolo broke free from Ginyu's blockade of him and Krillin, so he could make it with just five seconds to spare to save Gohan; hoping he'll get a rage boost out of it and will stomp the newly (and awfully) empowered Frieza.

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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:05 am

No. Frieza and his goons are just generic pure evil monsters, so they are not interesting villains to watch. I'd just want to move on to the next arc.

Ironically Frieza became interesting to me precisely when they turned him into a sort of anti-hero for the ToP arc, at least it was something unexpected if anything.

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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:37 pm

Yeah, sure. I'd have loved to see an episode where Shisami and Tagoma provided a challenge for Gohan and Piccolo and they were led on a chase around the planet or something. Just a really solid chance to expand on their characters while also changing up the battle locals. I think also changing Freeza's fate up a bit would have been a solid choice, showing some real character development on his part and change. I think Toriyama's biggest strength as a writer is also his biggest strength. While going against the grain can by useful as a tool as a writer he needs more than one tool and sometimes that means humanizing your characters more. This is a large part of why I've soured on the amorality of the Dragon Ball protagonists over the years. Too much vanilla ice cream is just boring and flavorless. Throw in strawberry and other flavors!

Anyway, I think it would have also been easier on the production crew if they'd managed to plan the next two arcs a bit better, too. Imagine having Series Director Chioka Kimitoshi focus on the first two arcs while Series Director Hatano Morio would focus on organizing the production of the Champa and Future Trunks arcs!
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:02 pm

I was actually dissapointed that they skipped the foreshadowing of Champa as it was in the manga.
I have kinda liked the return of Ginyu and Gotenks getting in - even though as a joke, but my 2015 self was waiting for the arc to be over!

The retellings had so much potential - but Beerus arc was disaster in comparison to the Extended Cut of the movie.
Pilaf gang makes no sense in Super continuity and as much as the series was lacking visually and in execution, they could have saved it at least with storytelling. But there were so many weird choices and it dragged and being dull.
Actually, some filler stories were hilarious, like Vegeta changing the sheets in Beerus' bedroom and some more exposition on SSJ Blue.
But still, Vegeta made no sense getting God form again except for bleak explanation.

And the same issues blended into Resurrection F arc. At least Tagoma got more screentime and Ginyu was insane plot twist in a sense, but compared to the movie, that was well choreographed and looked well visually, it was horrible to watch through on weekly basis.

Again, Champa arc had bleak visuals and it was kinda dull in anime. At least it had new characters.
It wasn't until Black arc that Super got quite interesting and still, there were issues.
I would prefer for Super to be actually remade from scratch up to the TOP, where the production made changes and the series was actually looking good and I have really enjoyed the TOP. Maybe the ending was too hasty.
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Re: A question to your 2015 selves: Would you prefer the Resurrection 'F' Saga to last longer?

Post by Geraldo » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:58 am

Geraldo wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:06 pm Imagine this:

1. Have Sorbet refer to the events of the mysterious demise of Guarana and his crew prior to his initial going to Earth (have us a flashback).

2. Frieza is revived, we then see what is his "special training program".

3. Sorbet explains that Frieza better have a training partner for this and saves Tagoma who's taken by Shisami to heal in a Medical Machine. We see a flashback of how Tagoma once saved Shisami's life in battle, so even though the bull hates him, he closed his debt to him.

4. Tagoma and Shisami are given a proper explaination for their quick growth in power by getting injected with some of Frieza's cloned DNA which causes them to undergo a mutation.

5. An explanation for why both Yamcha and Chiaotzu weren't there. Sorry in advance for this, but I can see them having a Covid like situation as a good example.

6. Have Sorbet's subordinates more involved in the story. Give them names and have them fight alongside the 1000 soldiers army: Master Roshi vs. the frog soldier, who after losing can transform into a monsterous toad who rivals Buff Roshi in terms of sheer power; Tien vs. the blue bouncer and Krillin vs. the beige bouncer.

7. A longer time of fighting Frieza's soldiers, and having an interim rank of Frieza's hired mercenaries take the front lines to battle the Z-Fighters in a much more satisfying way for both Frieza and the audience.

8. A proper battle of a decent amount of time between Shisami and Gohan who's holding back till Tagoma does his thing.

9. Portray Tagoma's demise as a frog either when Frieza transforms and kills his soldiers or when Frieza shoots his barrage at the deflecting Goku.

10. Explain to Frieza where Future Trunks came from (Goku: "I can't tell you where he is right now as he came from the future"); to make Frieza get angry that Saiyans can now travel in time. He seems to not care at all about the youth who killed him with ease.
Something that must be here is the reference Gohan makes about Tagoma's new power.

Instead of writing this vague line ("he's hiding power, he's as strong as I am at my best") - which gives me the feeling that the Dragon Ball Super writers had no idea what they were doing - they should have him say that Tagoma's new power is just about as strong as his current rusty maximum (which for some reason is still stronger than constantly training Super Namekian Piccolo).

Power levels wise, there's no way of this line referring to the Ultimate Gohan tier from his battle with Super Buu, which is still regarded as strong by the time the preparation for the ToP happens. In fact it is much stronger than Piccolo who could put a weary Final Form Frost in danger. I view this as a hint that the Resurrection 'F' first form Frieza is still weaker than the OG Ultimate Gohan.

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