Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

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Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:13 am

UI Sign allowed Goku to roughly fight evenly with Jiren in both the anime & manga where the Kaio-ken x20 & power strained CSSB completely failed so with that being said, would the improvement in fighting ability from UI Sign translate to being on par with a x50 boost in power? Since the ToP made a sort of callback to Goku's fight against Freeza with the 20-fold Kaio-ken failing, I've felt like UI Sign sort of fits the role of SSJ so would it be comparable even a little?
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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:13 pm

A big point of UI is how it's not JUST a power-boost

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:44 pm

At a given point, raw power/ki summon wasn't enough.
UI bypass the old 'combat power' (scouter way) to determine 'skill boost', in the meaning of combat awareness.

By RPG terms, UI is a boost in attack & defence score, not a strenght boost.

I think you cannot do such kind of direct math equations "boost = power" anymore.
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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:17 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:13 pm A big point of UI is how it's not JUST a power-boost
Maybe I should've worded it a little more specifically but that's why I said, does the improvement in fighting ability equate to that of a substantial boost in power? As in, does UI gives the user the offensive sharpness, defensive tactics, and speed on par with the stats of a much stronger fighter?
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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:05 am

Initially it does more or less look like it, but given how the ToP Genki-Dama kept absorbing power somehow it could easily be even more.
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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:40 pm

theherodjl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:17 pm As in, does UI gives the user the offensive sharpness, defensive tactics, and speed on par with the stats of a much stronger fighter?
Yes. How much is the increment it's hard to tell, especially because it was not fixed. The more times Goku used it, the better he became with it

That said, KKx20 was ROUGHLY on the same level as SS1 Kefla, while UI-Sign was better than SS2 Kefla, but not overwhelming so like SS Goku vs FP Freeza, even counting the inability to make offensive use of UI

I'd say it's more akin to a 40~45 times over basic Blue as effectiveness

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Thani » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:00 am

ankokudaishogun wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:40 pm
theherodjl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:17 pm As in, does UI gives the user the offensive sharpness, defensive tactics, and speed on par with the stats of a much stronger fighter?
Yes. How much is the increment it's hard to tell, especially because it was not fixed. The more times Goku used it, the better he became with it

That said, KKx20 was ROUGHLY on the same level as SS1 Kefla, while UI-Sign was better than SS2 Kefla, but not overwhelming so like SS Goku vs FP Freeza, even counting the inability to make offensive use of UI

I'd say it's more akin to a 40~45 times over basic Blue as effectiveness
Actually, according to the narrative, in raw power, they were more or less the same, with Kefla's attacks having the potential to kill Goku outright. He was overwhelming her mostly because UI is kind of busted when fighting people with comparable stats/level, since it boosts both your attack/damage score and your armor class and reflexes through the roof.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:09 pm

I wouldn't say it's a boost in power but a boost in effectiveness. In that case, yeah, original Sign was well above the 20xKK and above the genki dama that was deemed as something beyond KKx20's capabilities. So a 50x improvement seems logical to trade blows with Jiren. At the bare minimum a 40x boost.

The second and third coming imply the boost is bigger, so perhaps x75 vs Kefla(she was already as strong as the genki dama, before going SS2 IIRC) and x100 (vs FP Jiren). And Silver UI doubles 3rd Sign, making it 200x.

The manga doesn't have those bloated numbers, Goku's Blue Kaioken probably is just a 2x boost. SSBE could be twice that, and Sign like a 5 or 10x boost. And UI being 10x or 20x improvement of what Goku can do.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:41 am

It's hard to judge in the Kefla sense since first SSB Goku was tired to the point of Champa feeling Kefla could beat him, and then when Goku goes UI Sign, Whis says his attacks are ineffective/weakened because it drains his stamina & he's overthinking

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by DragonBallFanatic » Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:30 pm

theherodjl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:13 am UI Sign allowed Goku to roughly fight evenly with Jiren in both the anime & manga where the Kaio-ken x20 & power strained CSSB completely failed so with that being said, would the improvement in fighting ability from UI Sign translate to being on par with a x50 boost in power? Since the ToP made a sort of callback to Goku's fight against Freeza with the 20-fold Kaio-ken failing, I've felt like UI Sign sort of fits the role of SSJ so would it be comparable even a little?
UI Sign obviously has to be far more 50x. SSB KKx20 lowballing it to the absolute minimum is alone a 8,000 multiplier. UI Sign > SSB KKx20, c’mon now.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Aim » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:27 am

UI sign shouldn’t even exist

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm

Just think about this: Can SSJ Goku/100% Freeza glate away the Freeza Saga Genki-Dama?
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:30 pm
theherodjl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:13 am UI Sign allowed Goku to roughly fight evenly with Jiren in both the anime & manga where the Kaio-ken x20 & power strained CSSB completely failed so with that being said, would the improvement in fighting ability from UI Sign translate to being on par with a x50 boost in power? Since the ToP made a sort of callback to Goku's fight against Freeza with the 20-fold Kaio-ken failing, I've felt like UI Sign sort of fits the role of SSJ so would it be comparable even a little?
UI Sign obviously has to be far more 50x. SSB KKx20 lowballing it to the absolute minimum is alone a 8,000 multiplier. UI Sign > SSB KKx20, c’mon now.
How is Kaio-Ken x20 8,000x stronger than SSJB bro
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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by DragonBallFanatic » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:48 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm Just think about this: Can SSJ Goku/100% Freeza glate away the Freeza Saga Genki-Dama?
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:30 pm
theherodjl wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:13 am UI Sign allowed Goku to roughly fight evenly with Jiren in both the anime & manga where the Kaio-ken x20 & power strained CSSB completely failed so with that being said, would the improvement in fighting ability from UI Sign translate to being on par with a x50 boost in power? Since the ToP made a sort of callback to Goku's fight against Freeza with the 20-fold Kaio-ken failing, I've felt like UI Sign sort of fits the role of SSJ so would it be comparable even a little?
UI Sign obviously has to be far more 50x. SSB KKx20 lowballing it to the absolute minimum is alone a 8,000 multiplier. UI Sign > SSB KKx20, c’mon now.
How is Kaio-Ken x20 8,000x stronger than SSJB bro
No 8,000x base obviously

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:28 pm

The 50x boost is on top of SSB, obviously. An improvement vast enough to be beyond KKx20 and, or on the level of the genki dama.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by dragonball0900 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:33 pm

DragonBallFanatic wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:48 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm Just think about this: Can SSJ Goku/100% Freeza glate away the Freeza Saga Genki-Dama?
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:30 pm
UI Sign obviously has to be far more 50x. SSB KKx20 lowballing it to the absolute minimum is alone a 8,000 multiplier. UI Sign > SSB KKx20, c’mon now.
How is Kaio-Ken x20 8,000x stronger than SSJB bro
No 8,000x base obviously
The topic is about the boost compared to SSB, not to base.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Helios518 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:36 pm

Anime UI Omen is possibly far larger than 50x SSB. When Beerus sensed EP109 Geran (who was using less than "hint" of power), he freaked on how any warrior can be that strong. This is after Beerus sensed Infinite Zamasu (who should be comparable Corrupted Merged Zamasu and therefore SSB Vegetto).

DragonBallFanatic wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:48 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm Just think about this: Can SSJ Goku/100% Freeza glate away the Freeza Saga Genki-Dama?
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:30 pm
UI Sign obviously has to be far more 50x. SSB KKx20 lowballing it to the absolute minimum is alone a 8,000 multiplier. UI Sign > SSB KKx20, c’mon now.
How is Kaio-Ken x20 8,000x stronger than SSJB bro
No 8,000x base obviously
How is SSBKKx20's multiplier 8000x base? That would make SSB 400x base which is the same multiplier as SS3.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:39 am

I read this thread on Twitter and Ultra Instinct started to make a little more sense.

What was confusing the hell out of me was how UI Sign and True UI look like the same, but the answers are in the manga. First, we must assimilate the idea that the black-haired and silver-haired forms and the name of the technique aren't necessarily dependent. The forms that accompany Ultra Instinct are natural evolutions to better suit it, but, ultimately, Goku's goal is using True UI in his normal state, so the forms function as shortcuts to perform it better.

So, to enter in the topic, UI Sign or rather the form that accompanies UI Sign probably boosts Goku's power, that's right, at a larger degree than his Super Saiyan Blue form, and as a bonus Goku performs UI Sign. Although what makes it look like Goku is fighting evenly or better than characters stronger than him is not because his power is increasing, but because he is getting better at Ultra Instinct, to the point that he managed to trade blows evenly with Jiren for a while, and he used his fight against Kefla to sharpen it even more, outperforming her multiple times despite her slight power advantage. True UI or rather the form that accompanies True UI, accordingly, also increases Goku's power even more than the black-haired one, and, on top of that, the greatest bonus, True UI, but the form is too demanding and it shouldn't be used unless Goku needs to surpass his limits and keeps his heart calm. What makes it so confusing is that we don't have proper labels to those forms yet and they keep referring to them as some kind of UI.

And what about now? Until Goku fought Moro, he only could use UI Sign in his black-haired form and True UI in his silver-haired form, but now he succeeded in using UI Sign in conjunction with his normal and Super Saiyan forms, with different levels of accuracy, and True UI with his black-haired form. A step ahead in his path (remember his goal is True UI in his normal form). So, we can look forward to him using True UI in his Super Saiyan forms next.

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Re: Should UI Sign Improve A Fighter's Ability To Around A 50x Boost In Power?

Post by DragonBallFanatic » Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:27 pm

Helios518 wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:36 pm Anime UI Omen is possibly far larger than 50x SSB. When Beerus sensed EP109 Geran (who was using less than "hint" of power), he freaked on how any warrior can be that strong. This is after Beerus sensed Infinite Zamasu (who should be comparable Corrupted Merged Zamasu and therefore SSB Vegetto).

DragonBallFanatic wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:48 pm
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:42 pm Just think about this: Can SSJ Goku/100% Freeza glate away the Freeza Saga Genki-Dama?



How is Kaio-Ken x20 8,000x stronger than SSJB bro
No 8,000x base obviously
How is SSBKKx20's multiplier 8000x base? That would make SSB 400x base which is the same multiplier as SS3.
I already said it’s an extreme lowball.

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