Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Shorty GZ2
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:55 pm

Ten na nGael wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:30 pm Did Toriyama ever explain in an interview or essay why he altered the final chapter for the Kanzenban like that?
I don't think so

I've seen some try to surmise that (along with being a last-minute "haha grumpy Vegeta gag") he wanted to clarify Vegeta's character post-Boo since the Z anime's adaptation of the "Kakarot, you are Number One" chapter (episode ending on the speech itself, rather than like in the manga where it's immediately followed up with the gag that SS3 Goku was actually screwed/crushed the Potara to look cool, ruining Vegeta's earlier gassing him up/forcing him to help bail him out) made people think his character arc had fully concluded/he'd fully given up on surpassing Goku there (which GT followed up on to a degree)
That apparently was the wrong impression based on DB Online (where in the future, Goku and Vegeta leave Earth together for one last fight which leaves behind a supernova), Kanzenban EOZ, 2008 OVA, RoF & Super re-establishing that Goku & Vegeta are rivals/Vegeta still wants to surpass Goku even though he acknowledged he was better than him, sort of like how Vegeta at the end of Cell said he would never fight again but fast forward to the Boo arc and he's kept himself in fighting shape

But ofc, that's just an assumption, since again Toriyama never explained himself lmao

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:37 pm

Also, Oatmeel theory, neat enough, but we know he's like just a helpful robot buddy for Granolah

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:20 pm

Ten na nGael wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:30 pm Did Toriyama ever explain in an interview or essay why he altered the final chapter for the Kanzenban like that?
He also altered the ending of the fight with Boo. Instead of Vegeta just smiling at Goku, he instead mouths to himself about how he can't stand him, before falling and smirking. Guess Toriyama really wanted people to realize that just because Vegeta acknowledges Goku doesn't mean the rivalry is over.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alkiser » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:25 am

Shorty GZ2 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:55 pm
Ten na nGael wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:30 pm Did Toriyama ever explain in an interview or essay why he altered the final chapter for the Kanzenban like that?
I don't think so

I've seen some try to surmise that (along with being a last-minute "haha grumpy Vegeta gag") he wanted to clarify Vegeta's character post-Boo since the Z anime's adaptation of the "Kakarot, you are Number One" chapter (episode ending on the speech itself, rather than like in the manga where it's immediately followed up with the gag that SS3 Goku was actually screwed/crushed the Potara to look cool, ruining Vegeta's earlier gassing him up/forcing him to help bail him out) made people think his character arc had fully concluded/he'd fully given up on surpassing Goku there (which GT followed up on to a degree)
That apparently was the wrong impression based on DB Online (where in the future, Goku and Vegeta leave Earth together for one last fight which leaves behind a supernova), Kanzenban EOZ, 2008 OVA, RoF & Super re-establishing that Goku & Vegeta are rivals/Vegeta still wants to surpass Goku even though he acknowledged he was better than him, sort of like how Vegeta at the end of Cell said he would never fight again but fast forward to the Boo arc and he's kept himself in fighting shape

But ofc, that's just an assumption, since again Toriyama never explained himself lmao
Well I wouldn't take it as an end to the rivalry, Vegeta alludes to it in the second episode of Super, where he says that even though he recognized Goku as number 1 he doesn't intend to live in his shadow.

Now this rivalry has a different dimension than the one in the original manga, there Vegeta was just sick with jealousy and desperate at every turn, stressing every now and then that he would be the one to kill Goku. Now it's a friendly rivalry where they both motivate each other with their progress. Vegeta even as he snorts HMPF when Goku does something, the seed of envy and obsessive jealousy is no longer there.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:42 am

inb4 it's Toronbo himself who humanized himself, and is now angry over his powers being abused

I'm still thinking about the part where they said he's only supposed to be used for good, heroic wishes. And now he's been used for selfish reasons, twice in a row.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by ChronoTwigger » Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:23 am

Question: I suppose Toriyama *cannot* use GT concepts, as they belong to TOEI and the authors that came with it.
So, by law *or* to avoid any copy issue *or* by courtesy, I assumed Toriyama cannot spoil GT material.
I'm correct?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by OrangeBanana » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:42 pm

Thinking about it we still dont know what Maki and Oil learnt from Zuno. We can assume that one question was used for learning how to detect the dragon balls and the other possibly for how to summon the dragon. The others we still have no idea about which makes me curious if we'll ever learn what those remaining questions were.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:36 pm

Alkiser wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:25 am Well I wouldn't take it as an end to the rivalry, Vegeta alludes to it in the second episode of Super, where he says that even though he recognized Goku as number 1 he doesn't intend to live in his shadow.

Now this rivalry has a different dimension than the one in the original manga, there Vegeta was just sick with jealousy and desperate at every turn, stressing every now and then that he would be the one to kill Goku. Now it's a friendly rivalry where they both motivate each other with their progress. Vegeta even as he snorts HMPF when Goku does something, the seed of envy and obsessive jealousy is no longer there.
Pretty much this.

Their rivalry is the basis for their relationship. If Vegeta no longer wished to surpass Goku, they probably would not hang out ever again. And since we know that Vegeta maintains that mentality through the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, we shouldn't expect more than different shades to that relationship.

Also, although this is a series with character development, these are cartoon characters. It's the same reason Coyote won't give up on trying to catch Road-Runner.
ChronoTwigger wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:23 am Question: I suppose Toriyama *cannot* use GT concepts, as they belong to TOEI and the authors that came with it.
So, by law *or* to avoid any copy issue *or* by courtesy, I assumed Toriyama cannot spoil GT material.
I'm correct?
Shueisha owns the Dragon Ball IP. I'm sure they'd let Toriyama do whatever he wanted with GT or DBZ filler concepts. Look at DBS: Broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by chitarra10 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:52 am

Scans of the Japanese version are out... not gonna lie, I'm disappointed in this particular outcome. :eh:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 am

A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:14 am

:roll:
Last edited by Grimlock on Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Geraldo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:31 am

chitarra10 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:52 am Scans of the Japanese version are out... not gonna lie, I'm disappointed in this particular outcome. :eh:

https://twitter.com/DbsHype1
You're not alone. I was expecting that Gas (had the feeling it was him who shot Monaito) will die in his last attack over Goku, Vegeta and Granolah. I was more interested to see Elec using 7-3 to absorb Gas' power somehow and making his way to rival the heroes for a chapter or two before they'll fuse or find another way to terminate him, with Granolah making a stop to the Heeters' evil (whom Elec forced to transform and aid him against the weary heroes).

But, Shueisha reads what fans cry over the arc/years online ("give us our beloved Frieza!! The Heeters are trash!!") and ordered Toyotaro to do as the fans whine for. Don't remember that was the case when Resurrection 'F' was retold and people were asking for Yamcha and Chiaotzu.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:40 am


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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Geraldo » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:50 am

Xeogran wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:40 am
The ones in charge changed the plot/plans for sure because people were mocking them online for spamming "we're reaching the climax" line over and over for eight months. I bet Elec wasn't supposed to end up as dumb as he turned out to be. He must have had a plan B. Maybe even what I have suggested in the reply above.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:13 am

It's finally over! That's the best news we could get! Any ending for this arc is good, as long as it's ending.

Black Freeza looks great. Love it. It's going to be interesting to see where he was training until now. The fact he doesn't outright kill everybody also shows there might be more to it than meets the eye.

Looking forward to reading the full chapter.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:27 am

What a way to end an arc :o
Don't know if I should laugh or cry, but definitely came out of the blue lol

Exciting to see how the story will move forward from here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:38 am

FortuneSSJ wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:59 am
Agreed. Also, I don't know why I just started :lol: after reading your post.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:49 am

Howling at those spoilers, now that is an arc ending

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by OrangeBanana » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:03 am


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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:17 am

Lmao WHAT. I’m gonna try to reserve my judgement for when I actually read it but… WHAT. This is crazy.

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