Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:59 pm

Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87

宇宙一の戦士顕現
Uchū Ichi no Senshi Kengen
The Greatest Warrior in the Universe is Revealed


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Release Information:

JAPAN:
Date: August 20, 2022
Publication: V-Jump, October 2022 Issue
Cost: ¥590

(V-Jump is forward-dated two months from its actual release window. Issues are generally released on the 21st of each month, barring a Sunday or a holiday, in which case the issue gets moved up a day appropriately.)

INTERNATIONAL:
Date: August 19, 2021 (timed to the JP midnight-on-July-21st release)
Publication: Digital (Viz/Shonen Jump + Manga Plus)
Cost: Free

STORYBOARDS/DRAFTS:
The first several pages of any given chapter's roughs/storyboards/drafts have been posted on the official Dragon Ball website for quite some time now (in all likelihood done in an attempt to combat piracy and control the narrative by releasing teases of specific information and context at their own discretion). The drafts for Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 87 were posted on August 13 (Japan time). As these specific articles are generally removed from the website upon the chapter's formal release, archived versions of these links (such as this) are generally shared by fandom.

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THREAD/DISCUSSION INFORMATION

This is the "official" discussion thread for Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 87. All content regarding this specific chapter would be great to include here in this thread, rather than the dedicated / larger / all-encompassing ongoing thread. Posts that are specific to the individual chapter in the gigantic thread with no relevance to the larger series will be reported and/or removed.

Q: When will this thread open?

A: This thread will be opened by a Kanzenshuu moderator when the first official promotion of the respective chapter occurs. This may be when its storyboards are shared, or in some kind of formal news article leading up to that point. Please do not create a separate thread of your own to discuss this chapter.

Q: What is the history behind a [blank]-specific discussion thread?

A: We established episode-specific discussion threads beginning with Dragon Ball Kai in 2011, followed by the Dragon Ball Super television series in 2015. These episode-specific threads allowed people to discuss just that: those specific episodes, without being interrupted by other discussions regarding general production, promotion, etc. We didn't create corresponding Dragon Ball Super manga chapter threads at its debut due to the nature of its production: it was initially billed as a "comicalization" of the television series, and the first arc barely stood on its own as a unique production, rather than supplemental/incidental/disposable. We had kept the larger thread out of inertia from those earlier chapters, and have wavered for literal years over whether or not to separate them out.

Q: We've had worthwhile individual chapters since chapter five. This is absurd. Why are you just starting individual discussion threads so many years into the manga, when the TV series had it from the start?

A: All of that is correct. Maybe we will go back and pull out threads for past chapters. Maybe we won't. We should have done this a long time ago. Better late than never. This is the plan for now on and is not currently up for discussion or reconsideration. Thank you.

Q: OK, but... so what's the point?

A: At Kanzenshuu we believe in history and preservation. It is worthwhile to future versions of ourselves and entirely new future fans to be able to dig back and find real-time reactions to specific productions (such as a specific episode or chapter). It's much easier to do this when the discussions are separated into these unique threads.

Q: When will new threads be created?

A: Threads for new/upcoming manga chapters will be created by a Kanzenshuu administrator at an appropriate point in time following the release of a previous chapter, and ahead of that next chapter's release schedule (which itself includes the official drafts/storyboards).

Q: OK, so what do you expect us to actually discuss in a chapter thread, particularly ahead of its release?

A: For some time now, Shueisha (in all likelihood to combat "leaks" and illegal piracy) has released "draft" pages of upcoming chapters in the two weeks leading up to any given chapter's release. These are official pieces of information dissemination and absolutely up for discussion. We welcome questions about where and how to legally and officially consume the manga. We do not condone nor allow the discussion or encouragement of piracy. Following a chapter's release, of course anything relating to that chapter and its contents are up for discussion in a specific thread.

Q: What kinds of "sources" can we discuss?

A: You can discuss whatever you want, so long as it lives up to the community guidelines. It is recommended that you link to / discuss actual sources of information, rather than second-hand accounts. Twitter and its users are not "sources" of information. Shueisha has its own official Dragon Ball website and weekly news broadcast on YouTube, which will in all likelihood be your actual primary sources of information leading up to a chapter's release.

Q: What if I have something to say about another chapter that's not this chapter?

A: Is what you have to say/ask/post even tangentially related to this chapter? That's fine. Does it have absolutely nothing to do with this chapter? Post it elsewhere. These chapter-specific threads do not automatically close after a new chapter comes out; you are free to keep discussing a specific chapter for as long as you all feel like talking about it.

Q: So what do we do with the big/main thread?

A: The dedicated / larger / all-encompassing ongoing thread is still perfect for overall/holistic discussion regarding the manga, its production, its promotion, its content relation to other parts of the franchise, etc.

Q: I want to learn more about what's going on with this manga's production!

A: Check out Episode #0489 of our podcast for an extreme deep-dive (with all the receipts you can eat!) into the production of the manga, including all of the ways that Toyotaro, Akira Toriyama, and Victory Uchida each individually contribute to it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alkiser » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:16 pm

Gas himself, in my opinion, drops out because Gas fell from orbit miles north of where Goku and the team are standing, so it is unlikely to be him. While his power was increasing, his stamina was rapidly decreasing due to the high rate of burning of his cells. Hence, a simple kick by Goku seriously injured him, and as Granola himself said for the final attack he charged more energy than he could carry. Gas is practically meeting death. Added to this is the fact that Gas is too stupid for surprise attacks and is simply not vicious. Plus it seems like it's been about 4 minutes since the fight ended, and in that time the wounded Gas would have had to get back up. Especially since no one has sensed anything, Gas would have had to trot away on foot in such quick time that no one has sensed him yet.

Eleck also said chapters ago that Gas should hurry up because he has an important meeting, After all, he's additionally damn desperate to leave the planet, so much so that he's willing to leave his siblings to their fate, and after all, he's heard that Granola has let go of his revenge and the Saiyans don't show any desire to punish him either, so what should he fear.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by DragonBallFanatic » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:29 pm

Looks like Vegeta failed to prove his superiority to Goku in the end
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alkiser » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:36 pm

After all, on the same page Goku admits that he also needs to improve his techniques, the context is that they both ultimately failed to achieve their goal because neither of them independently defeated the strongest in the universe. Not to mention that they again had to compromise, in the form of cooperation.
Last edited by Alkiser on Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragmobot12 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:37 pm

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:57 pm

I would be very interested to hear a convincing basis for Seven-three.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:39 am

DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:29 pm
I'm so tired of their rivalry interactions. It's been the same dialogue over and over for years.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by chitarra10 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:20 am

Alkiser wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:16 pm Gas himself, in my opinion, drops out because Gas fell from orbit miles north of where Goku and the team are standing, so it is unlikely to be him. While his power was increasing, his stamina was rapidly decreasing due to the high rate of burning of his cells. Hence, a simple kick by Goku seriously injured him, and as Granola himself said for the final attack he charged more energy than he could carry. Gas is practically meeting death. Added to this is the fact that Gas is too stupid for surprise attacks and is simply not vicious. Plus it seems like it's been about 4 minutes since the fight ended, and in that time the wounded Gas would have had to get back up. Especially since no one has sensed anything, Gas would have had to trot away on foot in such quick time that no one has sensed him yet.

Eleck also said chapters ago that Gas should hurry up because he has an important meeting, After all, he's additionally damn desperate to leave the planet, so much so that he's willing to leave his siblings to their fate, and after all, he's heard that Granola has let go of his revenge and the Saiyans don't show any desire to punish him either, so what should he fear.
That kinda makes me wonder if Frieza found out what Elec is up to, and he's pissed off enough to go to Planet Cereal and take him out for what he's been doing for at least the last 40 years, if not more. Also, Frieza is a shameless racist, and he hates Saiyans, Humans, and Namekians, so it wouldn't be beyond him to just arbitrarily kill a random Namekian he knows nothing about just to make the dramatic entrance he's known to love. But the only thing about that is the fact that neither Goku, Vegeta, nor Granolah sensed anyone with a significant power level approaching, and they would've sensed Frieza behind them, yet they had no idea anyone else was even back there or else they'd have defended Monaito. That's where it becomes a head-scratcher.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Geraldo » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:21 am

FortuneSSJ wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:39 am
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:29 pm
I'm so tired of their rivalry interactions. It's been the same dialogue over and over for years.
You're not alone, Dragon Ball Super is stuck in limbo. I just wish Goku and Vegeta will be removed from the cast somehow. For a decade or so.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:04 am

chitarra10 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:20 am
Alkiser wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:16 pm Gas himself, in my opinion, drops out because Gas fell from orbit miles north of where Goku and the team are standing, so it is unlikely to be him. While his power was increasing, his stamina was rapidly decreasing due to the high rate of burning of his cells. Hence, a simple kick by Goku seriously injured him, and as Granola himself said for the final attack he charged more energy than he could carry. Gas is practically meeting death. Added to this is the fact that Gas is too stupid for surprise attacks and is simply not vicious. Plus it seems like it's been about 4 minutes since the fight ended, and in that time the wounded Gas would have had to get back up. Especially since no one has sensed anything, Gas would have had to trot away on foot in such quick time that no one has sensed him yet.

Eleck also said chapters ago that Gas should hurry up because he has an important meeting, After all, he's additionally damn desperate to leave the planet, so much so that he's willing to leave his siblings to their fate, and after all, he's heard that Granola has let go of his revenge and the Saiyans don't show any desire to punish him either, so what should he fear.
That kinda makes me wonder if Frieza found out what Elec is up to, and he's pissed off enough to go to Planet Cereal and take him out for what he's been doing for at least the last 40 years, if not more. Also, Frieza is a shameless racist, and he hates Saiyans, Humans, and Namekians, so it wouldn't be beyond him to just arbitrarily kill a random Namekian he knows nothing about just to make the dramatic entrance he's known to love. But the only thing about that is the fact that neither Goku, Vegeta, nor Granolah sensed anyone with a significant power level approaching, and they would've sensed Frieza behind them, yet they had no idea anyone else was even back there or else they'd have defended Monaito. That's where it becomes a head-scratcher.
I'd figure that no one sensed Gas (since I'm still sure it's him) is because his power has become fully liberated from his flesh, like a spirit construct (as an extension of him being able to make fists/boots constructs in the last chapter), or he's just a walking skeleton now (who can still shoot ki beams and ki blasts I guess). As for why, well, he might just want to solely win/kill everyone out of vengeance as the 1st free choice he's ever had in his life from failing/being disowned by Elec.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:25 am

That’s a nice theory (much better than OG73-i or Zalama ideas), but according to Uchida (V Jump October Issue Cover comment) the battle between Granolah and Gas seems to have been settled, suggesting we won’t be seeing Gas again.

Anyway, I don’t know how reliable those leakers are, but they are retweeting

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 am

FortuneSSJ wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:39 am
DragonBallFanatic wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:29 pm
I'm so tired of their rivalry interactions. It's been the same dialogue over and over for years.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragmobot12 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am

Lately I've been discussing one incredible theory that really caught my attention.
Now, remember that old man Cerealian we saw a few chapters ago? He was the one who told Flake to destroy the moon to make the Saiyans return to their human state.

Now here's what I wonder, how does he know that? I think he's a scientist, and actually he appears to resemble to much of Dr. Gero, Dr. Raichi, or Dr. Myu. But that's not all, I think this old man is in fact OATMEEL, and he is also the father of Flake and Granolah.

I firmly believe that he communicates with Granolah through the goggles or created them on purpose to follow Granolah, now we still don't know how he got them, because he didn't had them in the flashbacks. But I also consider that as well, he created OG-73, which can be easily deduced from the initials "OG", which stand for Oatmeel & Granolah.

I think he came to the planet and has some sort of plans for Granolah, I suppose he actually wants to get him to do some experiments, maybe he wants to create a canonical version of the Baby.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:04 pm

Dragmobot12 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am Lately I've been discussing one incredible theory that really caught my attention.
Now, remember that old man Cerealian we saw a few chapters ago? He was the one who told Flake to destroy the moon to make the Saiyans return to their human state.

Now here's what I wonder, how does he know that? I think he's a scientist, and actually he appears to resemble to much of Dr. Gero, Dr. Raichi, or Dr. Myu. But that's not all, I think this old man is in fact OATMEEL, and he is also the father of Flake and Granolah.

I firmly believe that he communicates with Granolah through the goggles or created them on purpose to follow Granolah, now we still don't know how he got them, because he didn't had them in the flashbacks. But I also consider that as well, he created OG-73, which can be easily deduced from the initials "OG", which stand for Oatmeel & Granolah.

I think he came to the planet and has some sort of plans for Granolah, I suppose he actually wants to get him to do some experiments, maybe he wants to create a canonical version of the Baby.

Image
This would be a really cool turn of events. It'd be interesting if this directly led into the next arc.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:17 pm

It's a cool idea. The old man reminds me more of Kuina from Toriyama's Kintoni. Either way, the Cerealians seem to be a loose mix of the Gold-eye Clan and the Tsufurians.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by EGonzo » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:27 pm

Dragmobot12 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am Lately I've been discussing one incredible theory that really caught my attention.
Now, remember that old man Cerealian we saw a few chapters ago? He was the one who told Flake to destroy the moon to make the Saiyans return to their human state.

Now here's what I wonder, how does he know that? I think he's a scientist, and actually he appears to resemble to much of Dr. Gero, Dr. Raichi, or Dr. Myu. But that's not all, I think this old man is in fact OATMEEL, and he is also the father of Flake and Granolah.

I firmly believe that he communicates with Granolah through the goggles or created them on purpose to follow Granolah, now we still don't know how he got them, because he didn't had them in the flashbacks. But I also consider that as well, he created OG-73, which can be easily deduced from the initials "OG", which stand for Oatmeel & Granolah.

I think he came to the planet and has some sort of plans for Granolah, I suppose he actually wants to get him to do some experiments, maybe he wants to create a canonical version of the Baby.

Image
It's more likely the Saiyans are just well-known to a lot of aliens, but damn, now that I hear of this theory I want it to be true

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm

batistabus wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 amImage
And that being literally the last panel of the manga means we won't have any real development, we won't go anywhere interesting when it comes to Goku and Vegeta relationship, at least up until that point in time. We will have to endure the same old rivalry and dialogues for Dende knows how long. Dragon Ball Online couldn't come any sooner to put an end to this.

I like this ending, but literally making Vegeta get the very last panel but only for him to say the same old nonsense is just... no. The last panel should have been Goku and Uub.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ten na nGael » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:30 pm

Did Toriyama ever explain in an interview or essay why he altered the final chapter for the Kanzenban like that?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:04 pm

Dragmobot12 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am Lately I've been discussing one incredible theory that really caught my attention.
Now, remember that old man Cerealian we saw a few chapters ago? He was the one who told Flake to destroy the moon to make the Saiyans return to their human state.

Now here's what I wonder, how does he know that? I think he's a scientist, and actually he appears to resemble to much of Dr. Gero, Dr. Raichi, or Dr. Myu. But that's not all, I think this old man is in fact OATMEEL, and he is also the father of Flake and Granolah.

I firmly believe that he communicates with Granolah through the goggles or created them on purpose to follow Granolah, now we still don't know how he got them, because he didn't had them in the flashbacks. But I also consider that as well, he created OG-73, which can be easily deduced from the initials "OG", which stand for Oatmeel & Granolah.

I think he came to the planet and has some sort of plans for Granolah, I suppose he actually wants to get him to do some experiments, maybe he wants to create a canonical version of the Baby.

Image
Man, this is actually a really cool theory!
That would be neat…

Unfortunately, recent developments in the series put my expectations really low.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragmobot12 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:40 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:04 pm
Dragmobot12 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 am Lately I've been discussing one incredible theory that really caught my attention.
Now, remember that old man Cerealian we saw a few chapters ago? He was the one who told Flake to destroy the moon to make the Saiyans return to their human state.

Now here's what I wonder, how does he know that? I think he's a scientist, and actually he appears to resemble to much of Dr. Gero, Dr. Raichi, or Dr. Myu. But that's not all, I think this old man is in fact OATMEEL, and he is also the father of Flake and Granolah.

I firmly believe that he communicates with Granolah through the goggles or created them on purpose to follow Granolah, now we still don't know how he got them, because he didn't had them in the flashbacks. But I also consider that as well, he created OG-73, which can be easily deduced from the initials "OG", which stand for Oatmeel & Granolah.

I think he came to the planet and has some sort of plans for Granolah, I suppose he actually wants to get him to do some experiments, maybe he wants to create a canonical version of the Baby.

Image
Man, this is actually a really cool theory!
That would be neat…

Unfortunately, recent developments in the series put my expectations really low.
Well, you're definitely not wrong about that! I still remember some pretty good theories for the Moro arc, and we know how it turned out in the end.

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