Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 87 - Official Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

As bad as all this is I'm really interested in WHO exactly gave Freeza this private dimension to train in.

Cooler.

I'm calling it now.

So I found an answer to my question and apparently

Spoiler:

Freeza found a place similar to the Room of Spirit and Time on an old planet that he conquered and trained for the equivalent to 10 years in there.

Good grief.

Oh, boy. Now that really makes everything Freeza does in Ressurection F seem so much stupider in hindsight.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

He trained for 4 months in Resurrection 'F' and got crazy strong. Now he's trained in the Room of Spirit and Time for 10 years??? Holy shit. This man is out for blood.

[Extreme_kai]

Spoiler:

o Frieza has a new color-changing form?

Why? He hasn't even mastered Golden yet. I knew Dragon ball was running ideas, but they are running out of ideas lol. I'm glad to see him back but I'm not too excited about this. Can we at least see the training he's doing in the background? Like, come on XD. I hate to say it, but I'm getting major Hero vibes from this, and as you know that's not exactly good.

[goku the krump dancer]

@ Super Saiyan Swagger Yeah but he didnt kill Goku and Vegeta right then and there like he could have. He either spared them due to his arrogance or because according to more spoilers

Spoiler:

Goku asks Whis if Freeza is this "Strongest Warrior" that the Sage Fish was referring to and Whis says "no I dont think so, that particular person is just being born".

So maybe he (Freeza) is aware of said looming threat and knows he's gonna need help.

[Hugo Boss]

Nice turn of events.

Spoiler:

So I called right that Freeza would return in this chapter and outrageously stronger, but I never imagined he wouldn’t be the person that shoot Monaito from behind neither the person the Oracle Fish foresaw. To be fair I was expecting Platinum Freeza, not Black (maybe a homage to Goku’s true ultra instinct?).

Anyway, it was too unlucky for Elec to make the wish exactly in the moment Freeza was in another dimension, that’s almost unpredictable and unlikely (and for a person even stronger than Freeza to be born in the middle of their slog fest). I will have to look back and see when Elec requested his presence and made the wish. Freeza must have been interrupted in the middle of his training to get out of the dimension to answer the call. And poor Gas, he didn’t even had a chance to process what Elec did to him.

What about Whis’ entrance? Like, he can restore life, but what reason he had to revive Monaito? Maybe he knew Goku would want to go to Earth’s dragon balls to bring Monaito back and thought Beerus’ request was too urgent for that, lol.

It does seem a lot to digest, it’s almost feels like Toyotaro was forced to end this arc as soon as possible. I was expecting to know which questions exactly Zuno answered, but I guess it doesn’t matter anymore.

[Extreme_kai]

I don't mind Freeza getting a new form. It was even teased in the Broly film. But like... why Black Freeza?

Super Saiyan Blue. Rosé. Goku Black. Golden Freeza. Orange Piccolo. While I like a lot of these forms, the naming convention is getting a bit stale. It's legit a joke at this point.

Needless to say, I'm intrigued in whatever the next arc is to figure out what the fuck is going on. As abrupt and thrown together this final chapter seems to be, I need to know what's up with Freeza's new form and how exactly he got so strong.

Was it really though? To me, it was teased that he wanted to fuse with someone because he realized Goku was stronger with Vegeta. I understand that every character in the franchise's end goal is to get stronger, but the dude didn't even completely master Golden yet. Also, I'm just sick of new transformations in general, while I don't find it as obnoxious as

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan

, it still feels unwarranted. So now we can just throw Golden Frieza in the pile of useless Frieza transformations.

[Alkiser]

I don't mind Freeza getting a new form. It was even teased in the Broly film. But like... why Black Freeza?

Super Saiyan Blue. Rosé. Goku Black. Golden Freeza. Orange Piccolo. While I like a lot of these forms, the naming convention is getting a bit stale. It's legit a joke at this point.

Needless to say, I'm intrigued in whatever the next arc is to figure out what the fuck is going on. As abrupt and thrown together this final chapter seems to be, I need to know what's up with Freeza's new form and how exactly he got so strong.

Was it really though? To me, it was teased that he wanted to fuse with someone because he realized Goku was stronger with Vegeta. I understand that every character in the franchise's end goal is to get stronger, but the dude didn't even completely master Golden yet. Also, I'm just sick of new transformations in general, while I don't find it as obnoxious as

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan

, it still feels unwarranted. So now we can just throw Golden Frieza in the pile of useless Frieza transformations.

True golden Frizer from TOP was not a contained Golden Frizer?

[ankokudaishogun]

THAT GUY being the strongest in the universe is a nice twist.

But the arc as a whole was WAAAAAAY too long. Should have lasted like half the chapters.
I'm just happy is DONE.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Vegeta told Goku in Broly that bringing back Freeza was a bad idea because he could possibly reach a new level.

Freeza got killed again in ‘F’, got his ass handed to him by Jiren in the ToP, got slapped around by Broly for a whole hour and found out that Goku and Vegeta can just fuse together to beat an opponent. The list of people stronger than him kept growing. He’s become humbled by all his defeats and he’s realised that he needs to get much stronger. He knows he’s not the strongest there is, which is the opposite mentality he had during the Namek arc. He now has to put in work to beat his opponents.

[Extreme_kai]

I don't mind Freeza getting a new form. It was even teased in the Broly film. But like... why Black Freeza?

Super Saiyan Blue. Rosé. Goku Black. Golden Freeza. Orange Piccolo. While I like a lot of these forms, the naming convention is getting a bit stale. It's legit a joke at this point.

Needless to say, I'm intrigued in whatever the next arc is to figure out what the fuck is going on. As abrupt and thrown together this final chapter seems to be, I need to know what's up with Freeza's new form and how exactly he got so strong.

Was it really though? To me, it was teased that he wanted to fuse with someone because he realized Goku was stronger with Vegeta. I understand that every character in the franchise's end goal is to get stronger, but the dude didn't even completely master Golden yet. Also, I'm just sick of new transformations in general, while I don't find it as obnoxious as

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan

, it still feels unwarranted. So now we can just throw Golden Frieza in the pile of useless Frieza transformations.

True golden Frizer from TOP was not a contained Golden Frizer?

While he did get better at controlling it in the for in TOP I wouldn't call it mastered yet.IDK, I just don't like this off-screen powerup they insist on doing with the character, Golden Frieza was bad enough, even his mental training in hell was a headscratcher. As someone else said in this thread, we need some POV of Frieza's experiences if they're going to insist on doing this. So now he's magically 10 years ahead of Goku and Vegeta, practically god tier to them. Of course, we know they will get stronger than him, but now it's just them playing the catch up game as usual.

[sigmasigma]

Is Granolah still going to die soon?

[Bardock God of Time]

I saw the leak and I'm excited for the next arc

[Berserker1921]

Now did they say, the strongest is just being born or was just born? Whis could mean that the strongest is a young. I suspect he is referring to Uub. I think that makes a ton of sense. Uub being the strongest in the universe. I mean why would Goku drop everything he does to train him.

[Grimlock]

Chapter title: The Greatest Warrior in the Universe is Revealed

Is Freeza the greatest warrior?

No. It's someone else.

Chapter ends.

Now did they say, the strongest is just being born or was just born? Whis could mean that the strongest is a young. I suspect he is referring to Uub. I think that makes a ton of sense. Uub being the strongest in the universe. I mean why would Goku drop everything he does to train him.

It makes sense from Whis perspective to say someone like Uub "has just been born", but Uub is seven years old by this point, so the kid is around for a while now. The word "just" doesn't appear in the fan summary, we're gonna have to wait for the official translation and to see what's been said in Japanese.

[Issei189]

Was it really though? To me, it was teased that he wanted to fuse with someone because he realized Goku was stronger with Vegeta. I understand that every character in the franchise's end goal is to get stronger, but the dude didn't even completely master Golden yet. Also, I'm just sick of new transformations in general, while I don't find it as obnoxious as

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan

, it still feels unwarranted. So now we can just throw Golden Frieza in the pile of useless Frieza transformations.

True golden Frizer from TOP was not a contained Golden Frizer?

While he did get better at controlling it in the for in TOP I wouldn't call it mastered yet.IDK, I just don't like this off-screen powerup they insist on doing with the character, Golden Frieza was bad enough, even his mental training in hell was a headscratcher. As someone else said in this thread, we need some POV of Frieza's experiences if they're going to insist on doing this. So now he's magically 10 years ahead of Goku and Vegeta, practically god tier to them. Of course, we know they will get stronger than him, but now it's just them playing the catch up game as usual.

I believe it is Mastered. I mean, Freeza said in the anime that his energy controlling skills increased dramatically. It was a similar thing in the manga. Through out the Anime and manga version of TOP, Freeza used his Golden form efficiently without any issues. In DBS Broly, He maintained his Golden Form for an hour during his smack down by SS Broly. By DB Logic, transformations having efficiency in energy control and negating stamina issues is basically Mastery.
https://i.gyazo.com/e58076d54b8947b0a0b ... b74013.png

[Block88]

Idk how Toyo got folks thinking he was a good writer this is another arc the man fumble the bag on

Elec was a flop got folks thinking he was some mastermind and only to be revealed to be a scrub

[Aizamasu]

Now THAT is a twist. I don’t know whether I love it or hate it but either way I’m looking forward to what will happen next.

[OrangeBanana]

Thinking about it you could say the Heeters got...Iced

[Ashur]

Was it really though? To me, it was teased that he wanted to fuse with someone because he realized Goku was stronger with Vegeta. I understand that every character in the franchise's end goal is to get stronger, but the dude didn't even completely master Golden yet. Also, I'm just sick of new transformations in general, while I don't find it as obnoxious as

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo or Beast Gohan

, it still feels unwarranted. So now we can just throw Golden Frieza in the pile of useless Frieza transformations.

True golden Frizer from TOP was not a contained Golden Frizer?

While he did get better at controlling it in the for in TOP I wouldn't call it mastered yet.

Why isn't it mastered yet? I don't get it, in the episode Frieza says that Golden doesn't quickly drain his stamina anymore, in fact he was still able to use it after Toppo demolished him with a Hakai blast and after getting beat up by Jiren, we see him using it after being severely fatigued, it is only when he's on his last legs during the final clash alongside Goku that he can't maintain the form, and it should be noted that by that point even Goku has trouble maintaining SSJ, a form he has fully mastered since the Cell Arc, i don't remember his mastery being too different in the manga, but:

.

Spoiler:

With 10 more years of training in another dimension it is obvious Golden is far from mastered, it could make up for any fine-tuning the form needed before the next level

[Extreme_kai]

True golden Frizer from TOP was not a contained Golden Frizer?

While he did get better at controlling it in the for in TOP I wouldn't call it mastered yet.

Why isn't it mastered yet? I don't get it, in the episode Frieza says that Golden doesn't quickly drain his stamina anymore, in fact he was still able to use it after Toppo demolished him with a Hakai blast and after getting beat up by Jiren, we see him using it after being severely fatigued, it is only when he's on his last legs during the final clash alongside Goku that he can't maintain the form, and it should be noted that by that point even Goku has trouble maintaining SSJ, a form he has fully mastered since the Cell Arc, i don't remember his mastery being too different in the manga, but:

.

Spoiler:

With 10 more years of training in another dimension it is obvious Golden is far from mastered, it could make up for any fine-tuning the form needed before the next level

I'm not convinced Freeza was able to say, walk through his everyday life just in Golden the way Goku and Gohan did with their Super Saiyan forms. He's much better with the stamina no doubt, but not to that point at least from what was shown. To me there would be no point in him constantly powering up and depowering the form, he might as well have stayed golden throughout the entirety of the TOP, but whatever. This doesn't change the fact that this chapter and his new powerup were introduced in such a lackadaisical way. Like, this isn't character ruining by any means, it's just so careless, I thought at least they would have learned to "show and not tell" when it came to Frieza's powerups. His "training" might as well have been another wish on the dragonballs from the viewer's standpoint. I also want to add, that "black" is a step down from "Golden" in terms of design aesthetics, the whole thing is giving me cat-in-the-hat aesthetics lol. I have to see them in full color because the design choice is so bizarre to me. I'm also not looking forward to the enviable new Goku and Vegeta forms, because of course they'll have to transform to beat the big bad. Ultra Ego is definitely getting shafted after this.