Kai Episode 1 (05 April 2009)

Individual discussions for each episode of Dragon Ball Kai.

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Ramoro-san
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DBK Premiere

Post by Ramoro-san » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:34 am

obiwan23s wrote: And for those saying "they should've just remade the whole show," get real. That would cost an insane amount of money and would've had to have been planned out over a longer period of time, and definitely wouldn't have made it on TV as fast as Kai did. A completely re-animated DBZ will never happen short of Steve Jobs or Donald Trump funding it.
Well, making any new show in general costs a lot of money and time, and it's not like Toei couldn't afford to do it if they wanted to. Plus, DragonBall is perpetually profitable, at least in Japan I gather. So why not?

Yes, I must say I'm one of the people who wishes they would have created an all-new show. In fact, before we ever had news of Kai, I had actually contemplated the concept of how cool it would be to do a remake anime and when I first heard about Kai, I thought it would be along those lines. But of course it quickly became obvious that that would not be the case since it was being released so quickly.

Personally, I would be thrilled about a complete revamp of the DB/Z anime faithfully based on the manga, with all-new, top-notch animation like we see in the Kai openings and the recent "Son Goku and His Friends Return" special. That would be the bomb-diggity. I don't think it's entirely out of the question a few decades down the line. Furthermore, I think the concept of repackaging DragonBall with a new title and everything would make a lot more sense in that context. Kai, on the other hand... well, let's be honest, it's basically just digitally altered old footage slapped between new theme songs and eyecatchers.

That being said, I'm still very excited about Kai. I totally love the opening and ending theme songs and especially the gorgeous new animation for them. The vibe is very relevant and contemporary, with bouncy, upbeat pop songs. I never really liked the bizarre "Zenkai Power" closing song of the original series, so the update is welcome. However, I think we can all agree that "Cha-La Head Cha-La" will live on.

I was disappointed at first with the decision to re-crop the picture into widescreen, considering what a fiasco that turned out to be with Funimation. However, the effect is not nearly as disturbing due to the selective reframing work that Toei so wisely executed, plus the picture appears to be considerably extended on either side (from what I can tell with the naked eye). Thus the visual composition is almost never disrupted, with a few minor exceptions. I was quite pleased with the result.

I think the high-definition remastering job looks beautiful and clean overall. But I wish they would have stilled the little bit of jitter that remains in the footage. And earlier in this discussion, someone brought to our attention some screenshots that had some lousy retracing work on them; it’s striking how bad these moments look as frozen frames (little Goku looks rather like he’s wearing eyeliner as he’s leaping through the trees). Still, I hardly noticed these issues as they flew by during the episode, because most of the artwork looks truly renewed and effectively refurbished. Again, Kai is miles above the shoddy auto-remastering job of Funimation’s infamous “orange bricks” (which, by the way, really isn’t so bad as the seasons progress). It was absolutely stunning to not see a single black speck or white grain amongst the smoothly-enhanced colors.

And speaking of colors, I really don’t get all this previous chatter about colors from the DBox release being better than the colors from the Funimation release or vice versa, or some such thing. Colors, colors, colors. Isn’t that merely relative? It just depends on your own perspective. Plus, what’s the basis of comparison? Who of us, being the viewing audience, is to say how the original colors were actually intended to be like? Maybe I just feel that way because I’m not extremely technologically savvy. Nonetheless, the “colors” in Kai look wonderful to me, as does the overall picture clarity.

Moving on, I absolutely loved how the episode moved along so quickly. I am completely supportive and excited at the notion of removing filler and increasing the pace of the DBZ story for DBK. I’ve been re-watching DBZ recently, and I find it annoying that the pacing is so profoundly awful and slow at some parts. This concept of a faster, manga-faithful re-cut of the show definitely flies with me. Indeed, if Kai continues to be satisfactory in this respect as more episodes are released, I have a feeling it will replace Z for me when it comes time to once again revisit the anime. That means I can just sit on my ass for about 40 hours instead of 110 hours.

So, there it is. DragonBall Kai has begun. Admittedly, we’ve got a lot more to see before we can render a final verdict, but judging by my first impressions of the first episode, I approve.

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Post by Zenkai Power » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:34 am

obiwan23s wrote:
And for those saying "they should've just remade the whole show," get real. That would cost an insane amount of money and would've had to have been planned out over a longer period of time, and definitely wouldn't have made it on TV as fast as Kai did. A completely re-animated DBZ will never happen short of Steve Jobs or Donald Trump funding it.
Kind of an ignorant thing to say. It wouldn't cost quite as much as you seem to think it would to re-animate DBZ. Especially in a condensed format. They make animes all the time. It would certainly make them $$$. I don't think the decision to not re-animate it had anything to do with that. I think they felt like there was a certain nostalgia factor to the original. Afterall, they didn't have to spend money on new OPS, ED, Eyecatches, etc. But they did. It's cheaper now to make an animated show than it was when Dragonball came out since it's all digital now anyway.


And as far as it taking longer to plan out? Yeah, maybe, but it would probably have been MORE worth it if you ask me. I personally would have more interest in this show if some of the awesome animation I'm seeing in these Openings and endings was actually in the show. I mean, Goku going Kaioken and fighting Vegeta, etc. was beautiful. It would have been an excellent opportunity to make some of those scenes even better looking than they were before. I feel TOEI missed the boat a bit. This is great and all but they've done everything short of just re-animating it so I feel they should have done it and made an even more interesting and better product.

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Post by kenisu3000 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:50 am

...Erm, I feel silly now. I did a forum search to see if Yeah! Break! Care! Break! was translated yet, but didn't come up with anything initially, so I went ahead and did that.
And then I did a second search just to make sure, and Herms had already taken care of it. Like several pages ago. :oops:

Buuuut... it seems like a bit of a waste not to share my take on the song anyway, so here it is:

Yeah! Break! Care! Break! With all you've got,
Fly toward the infinite skies

Getting on the jet current,
Let's go anywhere on a whim
Reckless abandon is the best
Let's go tip-top! All right?

It's as if the blue Earth is waking up
Since we can't give up our priceless planet,
Let fly with a Kamehameha
Our times are in a state of peril
Since we were born to protect the world,
Yeah! Break! Care! Break! With all you've got,
Give it Full Power

Hope is my weapon, so
Believe in the future

(Yabure-kabure/Yeah! Break! Care! Break! = Desperation)
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Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:55 am

b
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Mon May 02, 2011 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
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Post by Rory » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:07 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:HUUUUUUGE-ASS fuckin' post
Could you not just.. not write a novel for once Kunzait? :P

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Post by Kendamu » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:11 am

I wonder what Japan thinks of Dragonball Kai.
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Post by Captain Awesome » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:20 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:Epic novel like post
Man I missed those, never leave again.

I really need to write up my thoughts, but I can barely remember the episode, so I need to go back and watch it, but I definitely agree with a lot of what you said Kunzait, especially concerning the acting, pacing and new score, my main problem thus far, is the editing is throwing me off, I keep waiting for scenes, dialogue and musical cues that aren't there.

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Post by Tsukento » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:27 am

Found this over at Arlong Park Forums:

Image

Trying to find out if it's the UUE or season box set where the left screenshot came from.
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Post by Captain Awesome » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:31 am

Tsukento wrote: Trying to find out if it's the UUE or season box set where the left screenshot came from.
It's a season set capture, the UUE's are very dark and extremely grainy.

Man, I had forgotten how awful that set looks.

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Post by B » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:05 am

Innagadadavida wrote:I really don't understand why everybody is still upset about cropping. It's the same thing all over again. I don't see cropping as a valid complaint for Kai because the whole series has been released in a 4:3 format with amazing quality. I just don't understand why anybody would be concerned with the missing footage, especially with selective reframing. You are not missing anything important. A chin here, a symbol there, a small bit of hair, what's the big deal?
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Innagadadavida wrote:How is it disrespectful to the animation? Toei did it themselves, how can you disrespect your own work?
Hurry up and delete this before somebody sees it, ignores the wonderful paragraph above it, and we have a 30 page argument on THIS, which is unrelated.

EDIT: Haha, is the really pale-skinned Raditz a FUNi shot? Hehe, it looks horrible. That scouter...
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Post by Forgotten Hero » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:24 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:Epic Quote
Holy fucka Moses! That totally killed my review. You said exactly what some people wouldn't dare to say. I felt rushed too or at least miss cued like you said. Kai is great for me, but it's not perfect for sure.
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DNA
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Post by DNA » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:24 am

Boy, you lot sure are a bunch of ungrateful bastards. Toei could have just... you know, done nothing. For what it is, I think it looks pretty good. I think these forums are the best I have ever been in and are overall over these mundane fanwank discussions, but with this Kai thing, you lot are degrading into the typical nerdy fanboy discussions.

C'mon people! We're better than this. Just be thankful of what you got. This new series means more games and possibly NEW movies!

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Post by Forgotten Hero » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:27 am

DNA wrote:Boy, you lot sure are a bunch of ungrateful bastards. Toei could have just... you know, done nothing. For what it is, I think it looks pretty good. I think these forums are the best I have ever been in and are overall over these mundane fanwank discussions, but with this Kai thing, you lot are degrading into the typical nerdy fanboy discussions.

C'mon people! We're better than this. Just be thankful of what you got. This new series means more games and possibly NEW movies!
I see your point, but if Toei is to put money into a twenty year old show that honestly doesn't really need to be touched...Then it should be perfect in ever sense of the word. I enjoyed, loved, the first episode, but I can't disagree with Kunzait on anything.
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Post by NeptuneKai » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:34 am

Kunzait_83 wrote: Just… ugh. I’m so sorry Daizex, I know you all love this series to death, but fuck this image. Fuck it right in the ass, and all others like it. You suck Luffy, and so does your anime
I know Naruto should have been up there instead. A far superior anime to both Dragonball and One Piece if you ask me.
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Post by shotkeeper » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:41 am

B wrote:
Innagadadavida wrote:I really don't understand why everybody is still upset about cropping. It's the same thing all over again. I don't see cropping as a valid complaint for Kai because the whole series has been released in a 4:3 format with amazing quality. I just don't understand why anybody would be concerned with the missing footage, especially with selective reframing. You are not missing anything important. A chin here, a symbol there, a small bit of hair, what's the big deal?
The only thing I don't understand is why Funimation Remastered sets were getting a million posts with shit about the cropping. Even if it's selective cropping, what about the ' We lose 25 % and gain 15 % ' line or whatever.

I don't mind the cropping, I just wonder why 10000 posts against Funimation, but only a few against Kai. While they're both NOT in the original aspect and shit. Who cares if Toei released a 4:3 release, that has nothing to do with it. So did Funimation.
Last edited by shotkeeper on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by The Tori-bot » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:41 am

NeptuneKai wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote: Just… ugh. I’m so sorry Daizex, I know you all love this series to death, but fuck this image. Fuck it right in the ass, and all others like it. You suck Luffy, and so does your anime
I know Naruto should have been up there instead. A far superior anime to both Dragonball and One Piece if you ask me.
At least Naruto doesn't have arcs of crappy fi--

... Shit.
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DNA
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Post by DNA » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:43 am

NeptuneKai wrote:I know Naruto should have been up there instead. A far superior anime to both Dragonball and One Piece if you ask me.
WHAT?

Also, sorry, not meaning to be disrespectful but about Kunzait's post.. well... TL;DR :/

Forgotten Hero, I understand, I also was expecting the whole series to be newly animated when the news first arrived, but oh well, this is what we got.

It's like, imagine this (something similar actually happened to me a few days ago): there's a candy you really like, but unfortunately they only make it in some other country, so you just resume yourself to remembering what you had once. One day, one of your friends comes from that country and brings you that candy, he warns you that it's not exactly the same candy. You taste it, it's still good but not quite the same. Are you really going to be ungrateful about it? Are you really going to complain apart from the "yeah it's not really the same"?

In my opinion, Dragon Ball Kai is not really the same, but it still is very good. I accept it as a "new" series based on the "Z" chapters of the manga, that happens to use the same footage used for the Z series.

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Post by Tsukento » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:43 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:I see your point, but if Toei is to put money into a twenty year old show that honestly doesn't really need to be touched...Then it should be perfect in ever sense of the word.
Watch an unaltered episode of DBZ on an HD TV (by unaltered, I mean something like the UUE or a VHS recording, not the orange bricks). The quality will REALLY stick out like a sore thumb.
NeptuneKai wrote:I know Naruto should have been up there instead. A far superior anime to both Dragonball and One Piece if you ask me.
I seriously hope you're joking.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:58 am

Tsukento wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:I see your point, but if Toei is to put money into a twenty year old show that honestly doesn't really need to be touched...Then it should be perfect in ever sense of the word.
Watch an unaltered episode of DBZ on an HD TV (by unaltered, I mean something like the UUE or a VHS recording, not the orange bricks). The quality will REALLY stick out like a sore thumb.
NeptuneKai wrote:I know Naruto should have been up there instead. A far superior anime to both Dragonball and One Piece if you ask me.
I seriously hope you're joking.
Don't worry, he is. I've seen the stuff he's said about Naruto when he's serious.

Now, if it were Saiyan Professor saying that, I'd be acting just like you. Also, here's a Dragon box screencap from an old thread of Raditz's face:

Image
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Post by Tsukento » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 am

Good to know.

One more thing...
Kunzait_83 wrote:I can’t even begin to express how utterly sick to death I am of seeing you’re stupid, spazoid, Smilex-grinning mug
Yeah, Luffy! Shonen characters don't smile! You won't be accepted into being a shonen character unless you stop smiling and serious up, like these guys!
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