Kai Episode 10 (07 June 2009)

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Chuquita
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Post by Chuquita » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:18 pm

DaemonCorps wrote:Actually caught the episode subbed for once alongside the roomie and neighbor. One thing that came to my mind while watching was just how little you'd know about secondary fighters like Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiautzu if you were to just watch Kai and nothing else. Personally, if I were a newb to the series, I'd want at least some kind of episode explaining who these random fighters that aren't Goku are.

... then again, if I really wanted Kai to be better, I'd probably put new smexy animation as the first priority...

I feel like Toei's just teasing us sometimes with new little blips of animation. A few videogame openings here, Kai's OP/ED and eyecatchers there....and as much as I loved the "Ossu!" (it's seriously near the very top of my favorite DB-related specials) I'd really, really, REALLY love to see them pull off one more 2-D animated Dragon Ball movie (something about an hour or two hours long, not 35 minutes) before Ms. Nozawa retires. I know they can do it; they've shown they could do it if they wanted to; I don't even care if its a rehash of current material, I'd just really like to see it happen.

*Heaves a sigh*.



I did originally see Z before DB as a newbie and I had no clue what Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaotzu, et all's backgrounds were. I thought Yamcha was Goku's father until we hit the late Freeza arc and Bardock appeared. ^^;


So yes, some fleshing out of the backgrounds would've been nice for Kai; too late now though.
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Post by JAPPO » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:56 pm

New DBZ material almost always sucks, so I don't want to see a 2 hour movie created by Toei. Sure, they can hide behind the excuse that Toriyama contributed maybe 1 drawing but that's NOT good enough.

Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.

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Post by Hujio » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:38 pm

JAPPO wrote:I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.
That would be 153 episodes of DragonBall, 291 episodes of DragonBall Z, 64 episodes of DragonBall GT, 3 TV specials, 17 theatrical films, and 1 Jump Super Anime Tour special. You can also add in the 2 public service videos and 2 Playdia episodes/OVAs, if you want to count those.
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Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:22 am

JAPPO wrote:New DBZ material almost always sucks, so I don't want to see a 2 hour movie created by Toei. Sure, they can hide behind the excuse that Toriyama contributed maybe 1 drawing but that's NOT good enough.

Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.

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Many are well beyond having a film beat out Miyazaki's latest epic. So long as it's not an embarresment to Dragonball's legacy and it's animated in 2D (like this newer animation has been) many, many are cool.
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Post by Taku128 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:39 am

Hujio wrote:
JAPPO wrote:I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.
That would be 153 episodes of DragonBall, 291 episodes of DragonBall Z, 64 episodes of DragonBall GT, 2 TV specials, 17 theatrical films, and 1 Jump Super Anime Tour special. You can also add in the 2 public service videos and 2 Playdia episodes/OVAs, if you want to count those.
Actually it's three TV Specials if you count the GT one, and four if you count that one recap one that nobody really cares about. And you forgot that one telephone... game.... thing.....
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Post by Hujio » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:05 am

Taku128 wrote:Actually it's three TV Specials if you count the GT one, and four if you count that one recap one that nobody really cares about. And you forgot that one telephone... game.... thing.....
Yeah, I knew I was forgetting something. That's what I get for multi-tasking... :P
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Post by Tsukento » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:52 pm

JAPPO wrote:Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.
Define "true HD." The music and voices are all redone in stereo, and filler is pretty much being heavily cut down.

We're at episode 10 of Kai, which was originally episodes 24 and 25. That's A LOT of footage that was pulled and shortened.
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Post by Kaboom » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:12 pm

Even with the filler cut out, DragonBall Z is a LONG series. I can't blame Toei for not wanting to blow an enormous amount of cash on completely re-animating it.
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Post by JAPPO » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:09 pm

Tsukento wrote:
JAPPO wrote:Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.
Define "true HD." The music and voices are all redone in stereo, and filler is pretty much being heavily cut down.

We're at episode 10 of Kai, which was originally episodes 24 and 25. That's A LOT of footage that was pulled and shortened.
True HD as in remade as HD. I thought that was what Kai was going to do, but it turns out it's just up-converted / remastered / some random scenes redrawn to look like crap, etc.

The opening animation I guess is a good example.
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Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:11 pm

Hujio wrote:One downside for me is Inada Tetsu's portrayal of Nappa. It still doesn't sound hickish, no... stupid enough to me. Don't get me wrong, it's not that he's not doing a good job, but it just doesn't seem to fit with my conception of what Nappa should sound like. I can live with it, but... I can't believe I'm saying this; if he could sound stupider, that'd be great.
I think it should be kept in mind that the ADR director is likely the one you've a problem with. Whoever is doing the ADR directing is likely...not holding the same vision as you for the character, so that's certainly a possibility with any distaste you've with the portrayal.


I can't tell what's new animation these days. :lol:
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Post by Victator Supreme » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:53 am

JAPPO wrote:New DBZ material almost always sucks, so I don't want to see a 2 hour movie created by Toei. Sure, they can hide behind the excuse that Toriyama contributed maybe 1 drawing but that's NOT good enough.

Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.

My worthless opinion.
Nothing wrong with the movies. No idea why they have a reputation for being bad.

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Post by Metalwario64 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:07 am

Victator Supreme wrote:
JAPPO wrote:New DBZ material almost always sucks, so I don't want to see a 2 hour movie created by Toei. Sure, they can hide behind the excuse that Toriyama contributed maybe 1 drawing but that's NOT good enough.

Kai was a great opportunity to completely update Z with better animation in true HD, 5.1 surround, less filler, etc. without having to make up something new, but Toei blew it as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know why we need new material. We have close to 300 episodes of Z and 150-something for the original series, that's enormous. Plus, if you're a glutton for punishment, you can watch 13+ animated movies or Dragonball GT. Remastering is nice, though, and I'm all for it, if done properly.

My worthless opinion.
Nothing wrong with the movies. No idea why they have a reputation for being bad.
Because they weren't created by Toriyama...
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Post by Herms » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:37 am

Do the movies really have a strong reputation for being bad? I've never noticed that much hate for them in the fanbase.
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Post by The Tori-bot » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:08 am

Herms wrote:Do the movies really have a strong reputation for being bad? I've never noticed that much hate for them in the fanbase.
Well, 4 and 11 don't exactly have a good reputation 'round these here parts...
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Post by Herms » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:19 am

But the rest? I don't hear too many people write them off as a whole, and I know DBZ 12 and 13 have many fans, not to mention the Broli ones.
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Post by Tenshinhan-san » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:24 am

Bullshit. I know a LOT of DBZ fans and every single one of them loves the movies. Some even prefer the movies over the series!

I like the movies as well, some more than others, but I like them all the same.
New DBZ material almost always sucks


Yeah sure, your opinion makes it true. It's not even popular opinion. In fact, the only new Dragonball related material that sucks is the abomination that is DBE and I don't even consider that DB, official license or not.

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Post by Cold Skin » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:25 am

Victator Supreme wrote:Nothing wrong with the movies. No idea why they have a reputation for being bad.
Herms wrote:Do the movies really have a strong reputation for being bad? I've never noticed that much hate for them in the fanbase.
I don't think the movies really have a BAD reputation. I guess there are flaws that are often pointed at, like the fact that they can't be properly inserted into the main storyline except for one, or that they will mainly get a strong inspiration (sometimes even considered copy/paste) from moments already explored in the series/manga.

But I never noticed a particular HATE from fans, they generally like them despite often considering them imperfect. There are movies which are obviously fan favorites (Broly 1, Bojack...) and others are often considered black sheeps (Broly 2...).

But I guess in general, fans like the movies, even when they prefer the mainstream series or manga (which is not always the case). They also have their own advantages, like not wasting time compared to the Z series, since they only got 45 minutes to tell the story, so there's no way they can afford to take things slow. Really good ideas are developped sometimes, and legendary moments have been shown (Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan, Gogeta...).

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Post by Vino » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:28 pm

Kanzentai's episode 10 review for anyone who's interested:

http://www.kanzentai.com/eps-dbk.php?id=010

So far, this is the episode with the most edited material, lets hope the later episodes are edited even more.

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Post by Cold Skin » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:18 pm

Thank you to all members who post complex analysis/reviews, it's really interesting, as you're aware of much more details than the casual fan.

By the way, I didn't see all episodes of DBZ, and most of the ones I've seen were like 15 years ago. You guys mention the Kikoho being "corrected" I think. What was wrong about it in the original Dragon Ball Z?

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Post by Victator Supreme » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:14 pm

Herms wrote:Do the movies really have a strong reputation for being bad? I've never noticed that much hate for them in the fanbase.
You can see it around here. Like the comment I responded to. I can remember last year When that movie was coming out, how Toei could not make a passable DBZ movie.

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