Kai Episode 25 (27 September 2009)

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Kai Episode 25 (27 September 2009)

Post by Adamant » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:05 pm

General discussion for Dragonball Kai episode 25, aired 27 September 2009.
パワーアップだクリリン!うごめくフリーザの予感
Pawā Appu da Kuririn! Ugomeku Furīza no Yokan
Power Up, Kuririn! The Squirming Freeza's Premonition
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Post by Son Wukong » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:10 pm

25 episodes and we're nearing the Ginyu task force, nice!
How was the filler though? I feel like the left out a lot but can't say for sure.

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Post by Adamant » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:19 pm

Ok, this episode was somewhat of a mess. It covered chapter 264 and most of 265, but scenes were rearranged all over the place.

So, let's go through the chapters as the episode covered it:

We start off 1/3rd into page 11 of chapter 264, with Kuririn and Dende flying toward the Eldest's house. They meet up with Nail and are taken to the Eldest. This is where chapter 264 ends. Anime-wise, this part was taken from episode 53 of DBZ. Episode 24 of Kai ended with Zarbon flying off, then Vegeta getting out of the water, then an anime-only shot of Freeza and Zarbon. Episode 53 of DBZ, on the other hand, had this scene with Kuririn and Dende meeting the Eldest, then the scene of Vegeta getting out of the water, then the anime-only shot of Zarbon and Freeza, which in Z also had a shot of the Eldest. Phew.

Kai now gives us a scene with Goku training - this comes from the manga, starting 2/3rds through page 8, going through page 9 and halfway through page 10 of chapter 264. In DBZ, this scene with Goku was put in the middle of Vegeta's battle with Monster Zarbon earlier in episode 53, and was then followed by a filler scene with Tenshinhan and the others chasing Bubbles. The 1 page of material between this scene and the scene the episode started with showed us Kuririn and Dende waking up and continuing their flight towards the Eldest's house - this scene does not appear in the anime at all.

We now go to the start of chapter 265, where the Eldest gives Kuririn a ton of exposition, as well as a power up and a Dragonball. This scene also has two filler exposition scenes taken from DBZ showing us God's arrival on Earth and his expelling of Piccolo. This scene goes up to the eyecatcher, and covers the 8 first pages of chapter 265. This scene made up the first half of DBZ episode 54.

We now go back to the beginning of chapter 264, where not-Appule discovers the village Vegeta destroyed, and reports to Freeza, upon which Zarbon, who reported his defeating Vegeta, is sent to recover Vegeta for questioning. This scene, up to Zarbon leaving and Freeza pondering to himself covers the first 6 pages of 264. DBZ 54 has this scene at this point, too.

We now get a short filler scene of Goku training, this was also at this point in DBZ 54.

In both Z and Kai, we now get Vegeta crawling up of the water, followed by Zarbon touching down and recovering him. Note that in the manga, we got a panel of Zarbon thinking about the Ginyu right before he touches down, after we've seen Vegeta crawl out of the water. In Z and Kai, this was moved to right after he takes off from Freeza's ship instead. This scene in the manga comes from page 7 and the first 2/3rds of page 8 of chapter 264, and is directly followed by the Goku training scene.

In both Z and Kai, we now get Gohan learning about the Dragonball Vegeta hid, and him flying off to get it. This is page 9 and 10 from chapter 265.

Now, this final scene is a bit weird. It technically covers page 11 of chapter 265, but this scene (actually, the one panel with dialogue) was split into two scenes in the anime. In the manga, Zarbon expresses annoyance with having to heal a traitor like this, and Appule says it will be a couple more hours until he heals.
At the end of DBZ episode 54, we get Zarbon saying the traitor line, but Appule's line is cut. Later, halfway through episode 55, which has been all filler up to this point, we get a scene with Zarbon checking on Appule and Vegeta, and Appule says how long the healing will take. Kai here gives us the scene from Z episode 55, so we lose the manga canon line from Zarbon. Odd.

So, let's try to make sense of this:

Chapter 264:
1) Page 1-5, page 6 panel 1-3: Appule finding the village, reporting to Freeza, Zarbon taking off
2) Page 6 panel 4-6: Freeza thinking about the situation.
3) Page 7 panel 1-4: Vegeta crawling out of the water.
4) Page 7 panel 5: Zarbon thinking about the Ginyu.
5) Page 7 panel 6-7, page 8 panel 1-3: Zarbon recovering Vegeta
6) Page 8 panel 4: Narrator saying Nameck has 3 suns and there's never night
7) Page 8 panel 5-6, page 9, page 10 panel 1-3: Goku training
8) Page 10 panel 4-6, page 11 panel 1: Kuririn and Dende waking up and continuing towards the Eldest.
9) Page 11 panel 2-5, page 12-14: Kuririn and Dende arriving at the Eldest's house.

Chapter 265:
1) Page 1-8: Kuririn talking to the Eldest and flying back to get Gohan
2) Page 9-10: Gohan flying off to get a Dragonball
3) Page 11: Zarbon talking about Vegeta getting healed
4) Page 11: Appule talking about Vegeta getting healed
(5) page 12-14: Vegeta breaking out of the tank and finding Freeza's Dragonballs)

DBZ episode 53:
264-7: "Goku training" moved to the middle of the Vegeta/Monster Zarbon battle, followed by Kaiou guys filler
264-6: "Narrator saying Nameck has 3 suns and there's never night" - line given to Dende and moved to the middle of this battle, too.
264-9: Kuririn and Dende arriving at the Eldest's house.

DBZ episode 54:
265-1: "Kuririn talking to the Eldest and flying back to get Gohan" (there's also a short filler scene with Gohan and Bulma here, right after Kuririn is given the Dragonball)
264-1: "Not-Appule finding the village, reporting the Freeza, Zarbon taking off"
264-4: "Zarbon thinking about the Ginyu."
264-2: "Freeza thinking about the situation."
Filler scene: Goku training
264-3: Vegeta crawling out of the water.
264-5: Zarbon recovering Vegeta
265-2: Gohan flying off to get a Dragonball
265-3: Zarbon talking about Vegeta getting healed

DBZ episode 55:
Long filler: Kaiou training
265-4: Appule talking about Vegeta getting healed
Long filler: More Kaiou training
(265-5: Vegeta breaking out of the tank and finding Freeza's Dragonballs)

---
Kai episode 25:
(264-6: "Narrator saying Nameck has 3 suns and there's never night" - line given to Dende and moved to the middle of the battle last episode.)
264-9: Kuririn and Dende arriving at the Eldest's house.
264-7: "Goku training"
265-1: "Kuririn talking to the Eldest and flying back to get Gohan"
264-1: "Not-Appule finding the village, reporting the Freeza, Zarbon taking off"
264-4: "Zarbon thinking about the Ginyu."
264-2: "Freeza thinking about the situation."
Filler scene: Goku training
264-3: Vegeta crawling out of the water.
264-5: Zarbon recovering Vegeta
265-2: Gohan flying off to get a Dragonball
265-4: Appule talking about Vegeta getting healed

Scene 264-8 only exists in the manga, scene 265-3 exists in the manga and DBZ, but not Kai.


Also, note that in DBZ, during the "Freeza thinking about the situation" scene, Freeza uses the word "Chou Saiya-jin", while in Kai he says "Suupaa Saiya-jin". Anyone know which of the two he used in the manga?
Last edited by Adamant on Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Rod » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:29 pm

Wuuhu! The constipation episodes are coming!

We're the redrawn scenes more like the new ones, ore the old ones? (good or bad)

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Post by Hujio » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:08 pm

Did anyone else notice that they went back and used the 6th eyecatch for this episode, instead of the 7th eyecatch from last episode? Also, I was gonna discuss how this episode is all re-arranged and whatnot, but Adamant beat me to it, and did a fantastic job. Basically, the whole thing is a big mess, just like it was in DragonBall Z. I was really hoping they would've fixed that, but oh well.
Adamant wrote:Also, note that in DBZ, during the "Freeza thinking about the situation" scene, Freeza uses the word "Chou Saiya-jin", while in Kai he says "Suupaa Saiya-jin". Anyone know which of the two he used in the manga?
He says "Suupaa Saiya-jin", but as always it is written as "Chou Saiya-jin". I'm guessing they just took it as such, instead of using the furigana for "Chou".
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Post by RoarkVegeta » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:13 pm

Hujio wrote:Did anyone else notice that they went back and used the 6th eyecatch for this episode, instead of the 7th eyecatch from last episode? Also, I was gonna discuss how this episode is all re-arranged and whatnot, but Adamant beat me to it, and did a fantastic job. Basically, the whole thing is a big mess, just like it was in DragonBall Z. I was really hoping they would've fixed that, but oh well.
Adamant wrote:Also, note that in DBZ, during the "Freeza thinking about the situation" scene, Freeza uses the word "Chou Saiya-jin", while in Kai he says "Suupaa Saiya-jin". Anyone know which of the two he used in the manga?
He says "Suupaa Saiya-jin", but as always it is written as "Chou Saiya-jin". I'm guessing they just took it as such, instead of using the furigana for "Chou".
o_O. They used the 6th? Stupid Toei.

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Post by KaiserNeko » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:52 pm

RoarkVegeta wrote:o_O. They used the 6th? Stupid Toei.
I don't know what the problem is with that. It wasn't an unfitting eyecatch for the episode, I don't see why they couldn't switch between them.
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Post by RoarkVegeta » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:57 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:
RoarkVegeta wrote:o_O. They used the 6th? Stupid Toei.
I don't know what the problem is with that. It wasn't an unfitting eyecatch for the episode, I don't see why they couldn't switch between them.
Well, Dodoria's dead...

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Post by KaiserNeko » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:03 pm

RoarkVegeta wrote:
KaiserNeko wrote:
RoarkVegeta wrote:o_O. They used the 6th? Stupid Toei.
I don't know what the problem is with that. It wasn't an unfitting eyecatch for the episode, I don't see why they couldn't switch between them.
Well, Dodoria's dead...
Well, yeah, it's not incredibly timely, but it's not Dadoria is the main feature there, it's mostly just Freeza and his henchmen. Not a big deal, to me. I wouldn't have even noticed.
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Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:27 pm

Kai's sort of in a funky area as it is with those eyecatches. Personally, I'd have had the out-going catch be Vegeta punching Mon-bon and the in-coming being Kuririn, Dende, The Great Elder, and the Kaiô Z-Fighters.
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Post by SSj_Rambo » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Great synopsis, Adamant! Thanks for your hard work!

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Post by Hujio » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:37 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:I don't know what the problem is with that. It wasn't an unfitting eyecatch for the episode, I don't see why they couldn't switch between them.
I just thought it was odd, because it isn't very conventional to go back and re-use an eyecatch once you've started using a new one. I guess that's all I was getting at.
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Post by Adamant » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:19 pm

It's worth mentioning how the anime really screws with the timelien of events here, too.


Okay, so it's said it will take Kuririn and Dende 3 days to reach the Eldest's house in the manga. The anime cuts this piece of dialogue for some reason.
*The first day, the two just take off and fly towards his house, and nothing happens.

*The second day, after flying for a while, they're found by Vegeta, but he flies off to fight Zarbon instead, and is beaten. Zarbon flies back to Freeza to report, Appule finds a village and reports that, and Zarbon flies back to get Vegeta, takes him to Freeza's ship, and puts him in the healing tank. (of course, both Zarbon and Vegeta are much faster than Kuririn and Dende, which is how they get to and from these places so fast)

*The third day, Kuririn and Dende reach the Eldest, Kuririn gets a Dragonball and a powerup. He's now capable of flying back to Gohan and Bulma in about 2 hours (which matches well with how fast Vegeta and Zarbon were flying all over the place really fast the previous day). Vegeta, having been in the tank for a day or so, breaks out much before expected, takes the Dragonballs, picks up Kuririn flying at full speed, and catches up with him, as does Zarbon.

Now, in the Kai, Zarbon doesn't return to Freeza until after Kuririn has taken off from the Eldest, a day after he beat Vegeta, at which point, during the two hours it takes Kuririn to return he returns to where he fought Vegeta, recovers him, takes him back, and puts him in the tank. Vegeta then heals completely, steals the Dragonballs, and catches up with Kuririn, who's still flying.

So yeah, according to Kai, Zarbon takes a day to return to Freeza, and then all this other stuff happens in less than 2 hours. Well, at least it's better than DBZ, where Vegeta stayed under water from the point he was defeated by Zarbon until Kuririn meets with the Eldest, ie about a day.
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Post by Son Wukong » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:04 pm

Adamant wrote: Vegeta stayed under water from the point he was defeated by Zarbon until Kuririn meets with the Eldest, ie about a day.
Haha! Never realized that :lol:

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Post by JulieYBM » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:50 pm

Kami-sama, Daimaô, and Piccolo are all played by seperate guys, right? I noticed that they seemed to bring in Daimaô's actor, if only for a laugh or two, but still it was quite nice to hear him again. That flashback was so epic, I wish we could have seen Kami-sama fight it out with Daimaô, if just once.
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Post by alakazam^ » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:36 pm

Kami-sama and Piccolo Daimaou are voiced by the same seiyuu: Takeshi Aono.

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Post by JulieYBM » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:39 pm

alakazam^ wrote:Kami-sama and Piccolo Daimaou are voiced by the same seiyuu: Takeshi Aono.
Oh wow, really? O.o Dang, Kami-sama is so...different from Daimaô, too!
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Post by Hujio » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:21 am

JulieYBM wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Kami-sama and Piccolo Daimaou are voiced by the same seiyuu: Takeshi Aono.
Oh wow, really? O.o Dang, Kami-sama is so...different from Daimaô, too!
That's because Aono Takeshi is just that good. He's one my favorite seiyuu for that reason alone, same as Chiba Shigeru. Aono also provided the voice for Shen and Murasaki, our favorite ninja!
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Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:40 am

Hujio wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Kami-sama and Piccolo Daimaou are voiced by the same seiyuu: Takeshi Aono.
Oh wow, really? O.o Dang, Kami-sama is so...different from Daimaô, too!
That's because Aono Takeshi is just that good. He's one my favorite seiyuu for that reason alone, same as Chiba Shigeru. Aono also provided the voice for Shen and Murasaki, our favorite ninja!
Sweet mother of apple pie.


And here I thought Furukawa playing General Blue was a jaw dropper!
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Post by RoarkVegeta » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:19 pm

Hujio wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Kami-sama and Piccolo Daimaou are voiced by the same seiyuu: Takeshi Aono.
Oh wow, really? O.o Dang, Kami-sama is so...different from Daimaô, too!
That's because Aono Takeshi is just that good. He's one my favorite seiyuu for that reason alone, same as Chiba Shigeru. Aono also provided the voice for Shen and Murasaki, our favorite ninja!
Well, doesn't Shen sound like Kami-sama?

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