Kai Episode 47 (7 March 2010)

[ajf1515]

Well in my opinion the scene of Goku going Super Saiyan is EPIC!!! No matter how many times I watch it, it doesn't lose it's epicness Just like DBZ!!!

[DBZfan29]

I could have sworn I posted this yesterday, but I guess I never submitted it...

Anyway, I really liked this week's episode. I've noticed a lot of people are complaining about it, but I really enjoyed it. I was anticipating every second of it (even though I already knew what was going to happen). I haven't watched the series since the death of Zarbon, but I think I'm going to get back into it!

I only had one big complaint about the episode. People seem to be complaining about the music used during Goku's transformation. That isn't my problem. I had a problem with the music played during the scene where Freeza re-appears and Gohan and Kuririn literally crap their pants. The scene was supposed to be horrifying and suspenseful, but the music accompanying it wasn't.

I haven't watch that particular part of the series in Japanese in a while (if I did at all...), so I don't know how the music was handled in Z. Was it horrifying and/or suspenseful...?

[ohaimynameiserik]

I liked this episode, and thought the song choice during the second half of the transformation was good. It fits.

ONLY PROBLEM IS, that song is used nearly every episode.

If it had been used much more sparingly, less people would have a problem with it.

Plus, I personally am glad they put that deep filter on Goku when he transforms. It sounds like he's turning from a man into some kinda monster... which he sorta is.

[B]

I think the problem with the transformation scene was that it's supposed to be this grand point in the entire series, and yet it didn't seem any different than anything else going on.

[kenisu3000]

I haven't watch that particular part of the series in Japanese in a while (if I did at all...), so I don't know how the music was handled in Z. Was it horrifying and/or suspenseful...?

Yep! As Kuririn stares at the cliff in horror, the music comes in slowly and menacing (it's the opening piece from DragonBall Movie 1, The Legend of Shen Long), then as we're shown Freeza's foot, tail and pointing finger in turn, it switches to a loud, shocking composition ("Goku Vs. Mutaito", also from the original DragonBall).

[Kendamu]

Yes. There wasn't an insert song for it nor was there a brand new tune for it. Just like Kai.

The BGM used was much more intense than Kai's piece.

Hell, even the Faulconer piece used in the dub was probably more appropriate than what they used for Kai.

But like I said, it's not like it destroys the whole show.

Like I said on Twitter, a big part of my overall feelings about it comes from the fact that I'm not a huge fan of Goku's first SSj transformation in the first place. It's cool and all, but not really. I like Gohan's SSj2 transformation and Vegeta showing off SSj to Dr. Gero and #19 much better.

Also, whether you like it or not, the Kai version was handled just the way I expected them to handle it and, within the context of Kai alone, it fits the show's atmosphere and pacing very well.

While I said on Twitter that I'll have more to say when Gohan hits SSj2, I've thought about it since then and I'd have to say, it's not Goku's transformation itself that I like so much. It's more what he does shortly after transforming (where Goku's still showing off his new strength) that counts for me when it comes to this part of the series. So, after seeing the next episode or two, I'll probably have more to say.

[penguintruth]

I'm really nervous about what they'll do with Gohan's SSJ2 transformation, because that's probably my single favorite moment in DBZ and it was handled so perfectly there.

Also, unlike VegettoEX, I'll definitely continue to watch this anyway, since I do have an interest in Kai, even if it might not extend to actually collecting it. I think largely because I do enjoy the pacing and I've been reviewing it for my blog, so I'm kind of shackled to it.

[Vino]

The music wasn't what I expected(Dragon Soul absence) but it still worked pretty well. I agree with VegettoEX about the inconsistency, I really want them to stop doing that and just redraw stuff that has lots of flashiness. I enjoyed Vegeta's saga because it had less noticeable redrawn shit (save the Raditz battle), but Freeza's arc had tons of them which were unnecessary at all. Worst of them was that Zarbon pic, ugh.

[Castor Troy]

I really disliked it. Everything from the buildup to the end of the scene was just poorly done in comparison to Z.

I even agree with penguintruth that the Faulconer score was better.

I'm still going to watch Kai, but I hope certain scenes are handled much better in the future.

[Senzu_Bean]

Also, I don't know if any of you guys saw this, but here's what the scene would've been like with Chou ☆ Super Dragon Soul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVTIn8M ... re=related

I am definitely glad they didn't use this track for the scene. The one we got is much more awesome. I like it so much that I'm even going to say it's better than the Z track. The whole scene is much more awesome in Kai than in Z. But all in my own opinion of course.

One thing I noticed is when Goku's hair first turns gold he doesn't give that high pitch sound he does in Z. I'm not complying since that noise/scream was kinda weird.

[Amigo Ten]

I think the problem with the transformation scene was that it's supposed to be this grand point in the entire series, and yet it didn't seem any different than anything else going on.

I think it's the stuff coming up that's grand. The actual transformation always seemed like it was supposed to be underwhelming, to belie the upcoming ass-whooping. Sort of like "Is that it? What's that going to do? He ju- HOLY SHIT HE'S KICKING ASS!".

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. In the manga, it's very abrupt. The anime does slow it down and focus on it quite a bit more, but it's still basically the same mood.

[*]No Vocal Insert Song: "The scene" didn't need it (any vocal song, not one in particular), and anyone that thinks it did does not understand the mood and tone. Whether you liked the specific BGM they used or not is another discussion to be had, but it was the right direction to go in.

I'm rather curious about this. I actually did think the way they did it was better than if they had used Super Dragon Soul (which, while a good composition, sounds rather artificial in its arrangement), so I agree about not using an insert song, but why does the mood and tone of Goku's SSJ transformation not warrant an insert song while Gohan's SSJ2 does? Unfortunately, while I've heard the song many times, I've never yet seen the episode where Gohan goes SSJ2 in Japanese yet (waiting for the DBox!). So what's the difference?

[VegettoEX]

I'm rather curious about this. I actually did think the way they did it was better than if they had used Super Dragon Soul (which, while a good composition, sounds rather artificial in its arrangement), so I agree about not using an insert song, but why does the mood and tone of Goku's SSJ transformation not warrant an insert song while Gohan's SSJ2 does? Unfortunately, while I've heard the song many times, I've never yet seen the episode where Gohan goes SSJ2 in Japanese yet (waiting for the DBox!). So what's the difference?

Goku's transformation (at least in the anime) is a longer, more drawn-out process. There's shit going on around him (all the lightning crashes and rumbling). The focus is on the turmoil and confusion. t's all about how hopeless the situation is. I felt the original score to the scene nailed each and every aspect of it... I mean, those drums, man...!

Gohan's SSJ2 transformation is quite different. It's not this long build-up. It's a crystal-clear-headed moment and then an instant snap. It's like "Unmei no Hi" is acting as the palate-cleanser for the poor kid's mind, allowing him that single instant to "click".

Those are my interpretations of the scenes, and while you're free to form your own, I'd just like to remind you that I'm absolutely 100% factually correct in my assessment, leaving zero room for discussion.

I'd just like to reiterate, if it wasn't clear enough, that I'm not just focusing on the SSJ transformation in terms of my dislike of the episode. I thought the entire goddamn thing was pretty dreadful, and a clear reminder of why I don't fucking care about this "refresh" at all. Ignoring the pacing, the music, the dialogue... ignoring all that stuff... how anyone can tolerate the glaring, disparate quality differences between the original art and when you're smacked in the face with the redrawn scenes is beyond me.

(BTW, updated my prior post in the thread with a couple quick images and a comparison MP3 of Freeza line delivery.)

[Castor Troy]

I'd just like to reiterate, if it wasn't clear enough, that I'm not just focusing on the SSJ transformation in terms of my dislike of the episode. I thought the entire goddamn thing was pretty dreadful, and a clear reminder of why I don't fucking care about this "refresh" at all. Ignoring the pacing, the music, the dialogue... ignoring all that stuff... how anyone can tolerate the glaring, disparate quality differences between the original art and when you're smacked in the face with the redrawn scenes is beyond me.

More reason why Kai should have been re-animated from the beginning instead trying to make 80's-90's animation look "new".

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, as much as I agree, I'm glad that they at least had the decency to screw around with DBZ as a new series, rather than edit and reanimate the original show and present it as some "special edition." They can do whatever they want with Kai as long as DBZ isn't screwed around with. So from that viewpoint, it's at least interesting to see how they change things without feeling threatened that things are being replaced.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

While it wasn't as powerful as the first time I saw it(nor the first time I saw it in Japanese) I have to say this episode took me back ten years and I felt a great deal of nostalgia. The changes really didn't bother me while watching it as I was just sort of taken back to being a kid and rushing home to see Goku FINALLY transform into a Super Saiyan. I hope that in Japan this new generation got to experience what I felt and, even better, the experience felt by people 20 years ago when it happened for the first time ever.

If I were to go back and watch it again, I probably wouldn't be as impressed. I'd probably be in VegettoEX's position. However, for what it was, it really took me back and it made me smile.

[Hujio]

More reason why Kai should have been re-animated from the beginning instead trying to make 80's-90's animation look "new".

Unless it was entirely re-animated like all the scenes in Kai so far. Can you imagine what it'd look like?! ...I think I just threw-up a little...

[penguintruth]

I think some of the "new" stuff has been fairly good. The problem is how much it varies and how it clashes with the old animation.

What if it was like the Zeta Gundam movies were all the new bits were entirely reanimated, but only the parts that were retraced here? It would clash even more, I think.

[Kirbopher]

While I really like Ultra-Super Dragon Soul, and I think it WOULD have been really suiting for the scene, I also respect that the scene didn't necassarily need it. That and we probably wouldn't've cared about an insert song to begin with if he hadn't just assumed Ultra-Super was always intended for it.

I've been enjoying Kai merely because it's fun to see these episodes again in general, and for the most part I love the new sound and pacing. Visual-wise, I'll echo everyone's sentiment of wishing it were just re-animated, since I really don't see the risk with trying that as far as business sense goes, but then again we don't know if there were issues with Toei doing that which ALL of us could be completely unaware of.

[Vino]

More reason why Kai should have been re-animated from the beginning instead trying to make 80's-90's animation look "new".

Unless it was entirely re-animated like all the scenes in Kai so far. Can you imagine what it'd look like?! ...I think I just threw-up a little...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=242TguZVLN8