Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

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Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Hujio » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:15 pm

General Discussion for Dragon Ball Kai episode 111, aired 29 June 2014

チビッコ恐るべし!!大苦戦の18号
Chibikko Osorubeshi! Dai-Kusen no Jūhachi-Gō
What Incredible Kids!! The Great Struggles of No. 18


PLEASE SAVE DISCUSSION FOR AFTER THE EPISODE HAS AIRED
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by DBZ_Lee » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:38 pm

A far better episode than last week - I think it is a case of drawing things out more like Hujio said a few weeks back.
In their defence, I think it would have been very difficult to have simply cut out the Dabura meditation scenes, this part happened totally different in the manga.
I think the sooner the Tournament is done, the better.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:40 pm

Week 2 of Dragon Ball Z with worse music!

According to Adamant in the IRC, this episode covered 11 pages of the manga. ELEVEN pages for Kai! I guess they forgot what the point of the series was, huh?

Music placement was ghastly. It’s bad enough we have an entire episode dedicated to Mighty Mask vs #18 but it’s not a serious fight at all. I guess they forgot that too!

I don’t understand why they were playing this apocalyptic doom and gloom music that sounds like it belongs during the final moments of the Boo fight.

The terrible remaster really showed its true colours (hah!) during this episode too. Goku’s tears and drool in one scene were a nice shade of green/yellow. It looked like he was crying snot!

Oh well, back to marathonning a show that isn't descending into crap - JoJo!
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:59 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
Oh well, back to marathonning a show that isn't descending into crap - JoJo!
Jojo bizarre adventure is a great series. I started watching it last month and right now I'm in the middle of part 2.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:10 pm

JEFFMAN219 wrote:
AjayLikesGaming wrote:
Oh well, back to marathonning a show that isn't descending into crap - JoJo!
Jojo bizarre adventure is a great series. I started watching it last month and right now I'm in the middle of part 2.
I finished up the first series in a few days, I'm hooked! Starting Stardust Crusaders tomorrow. Far too much fun.
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Dogasu » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:52 pm

I thought of something while watching this episode.

So, the annoying green tint that we've all noticed, the one that turns Goku's tears into snot? What if this is actually being done on purpose to avoid having to spend the money on reanimating scenes?

I promise this makes sense.

One of the many reasons scenes got reanimated during the previous run of Kai was to deal with excessive flashing. After all those kids got seizures after that one Pocket Monsters episode aired back in 1998 Japanese TV has been really strict about not airing content that they wouldn't have thought twice about back when DBZ was first airing. But! It's not just scenes that have strobe light-like effects that are no longer fit to air on Japanese TV in this post-Porygon world; quick, full screen scene changes fall into the "too flashy" rule as well. So, for example, the full screen shots of Mighty Mask and No. 18 going back and forth really really fast fall into the "too flashy" area as well even though most of us wouldn't think of them that way.

Japan really, really, really, really, really does not want a repeat of the Porygon incident.

Whenever something old is run on Japanese TV, scenes with flashing in them edited in two ways. One, the footage is slowed down, usually by removing some frames of animation and extending others, resulting in a really pixelated and jerky moving sequence. Two, the brightness on the scene in question is greatly reduced. If you've seen early Season One episodes of Pokemon you know what this looks like in motion. These scenes really stick out like a sore thumb but it's really the best solution TV networks have short of reanimating all their old shows to conform to modern day standards.

I noticed in today's episode that while some scenes were slowed down during the aforementioned fight between Mighty Mask and No. 18 they weren't dimmed at all. And that's because the entire show is already dimmed down! By placing that ugly green tint over everything, the entire show becomes darker, making adjustments to the more flashy scenes unnecessary. Everything gets to be one uniform brightness instead of constantly shifting back and forth based on what's happening on-screen, creating less work for Toei / Fuji TV.

When TV-Tokyo did their investigation into the Porygon incident they found that the rapid flashing of red and blue lights is what caused all those kids to go into seizures. So maybe the green tint is meant to neutralize those two colors?

The Korean version apparently doesn't have the green tint but it *is* darker. I'm thinking that maybe Toei darkened the Kai masters, submitted them to Fuji TV, and then were told that it's still not enough for a 2014 broadcast and to try again. And so Toei put the green tint over their already darkened masters to get it on the air as quickly and cheaply as possible? And in the meantime those original, pre-tint but darkened masters were sent to Korea and presumably the rest of the world for dubbing?

This is all just a theory and it could very well be wrong but I think it fits with the whole "spend as little time and money on this thing as possible" idea that seems to have become Toei's mantra with this series.
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Kid Buu » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:59 pm

"What Incredible Kids!! The Great Struggles of No. 18"

reminds me of

"Yamcha's Struggle! The Terrible Saibamen!"
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:11 am

Dogasu wrote:*snip*
I'd buy that theory. The mystery of the green tint is made all the more mysterious when we consider that it was not applied to the international version (and instead all we got were darkened colors). Since the tint-less international version was produced first, then it certainly would make sense that the green tint was the result of a demand unique to Japan, be it their broadcast standards, Fuji TV's demands, or something else entirely.

I've given it a fair amount of thought, and so far, the only thing that doesn't make immediate sense with this explanation is why they didn't also apply the green tint when Q-TEC was in charge of the remastering. I had my issues with Q-TEC's remastering process, but I thought their color correction was the best DBZ has ever looked. They didn't feel the need to eliminate strobe-light effects as far as I remember...but my memory may not serve me well, so someone feel free to correct me.

OFF-TOPIC PS: I think *snip* is just chat forum jargon for summarizing a long post (basically a one-word way of saying, "Yes, what they said")...is this correct, or have I misunderstood?
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Akumaito Beam » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:27 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote: OFF-TOPIC PS: I think *snip* is just chat forum jargon for summarizing a long post (basically a one-word way of saying, "Yes, what they said")...is this correct, or have I misunderstood?
Yeah that's correct, it's so you don't have a giant mountain of a quote.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:57 am

I hate to ask, but I for the life of me don't remember Goku crying in the Buu Saga, if not all of Z. When/where does this happen? Can I see a screenshot?

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:53 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:I hate to ask, but I for the life of me don't remember Goku crying in the Buu Saga, if not all of Z. When/where does this happen? Can I see a screenshot?
I'm pretty sure he's just referring to the shot of Goku yawning as they wait for the stage 3 fight on Babidi's ship. He has watery eyes and is drooling a little.

EDIT - So I just finished watching the episode and, while I enjoyed it, I do agree that I might as well have been watching Z. What I really want to see are some new eye-catches. I really hope the international version has changing eye-catches like the first phase of Kai and TOEI just didn't bother putting in the effort to change them for their edited down version.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by mcdonough88 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:43 am

Bad episode, not as bad as 110 though.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Cold Skin » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:19 am

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:What I really want to see are some new eye-catches. I really hope the international version has changing eye-catches like the first phase of Kai and TOEI just didn't bother putting in the effort to change them for their edited down version.
We'll see if I'm correct next week, but here are my theories:
- They chose to change the eyecatches only when the ending changes as well. That way they have to bother about any new presentation only once every three months, and the rest of the time they just copy/paste without having to make any effort.
- They tried to buy some time with the last two episodes about the Tenkaichi Budokai because they want things to kick in next week with Vegeta making the situation more dangerous than ever as the last moment of the episode leading to the new ending. Once it's been done, pacing will be back to full speed.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by ABED » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:45 am

Could I get a one to two line summary of the episode?
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Dogasu » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:34 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote:I've given it a fair amount of thought, and so far, the only thing that doesn't make immediate sense with this explanation is why they didn't also apply the green tint when Q-TEC was in charge of the remastering.<snip> They didn't feel the need to eliminate strobe-light effects as far as I remember...
They did eliminate the strobe-light effects by axing those scenes and replacing them with newly animated versions that actually *do* conform to modern day standards.

The current team behind Kai isn't as willing to spend the money to do that as Q-TEC was and so this cheaper alternative is beind done instead.
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:I'm pretty sure he's just referring to the shot of Goku yawning as they wait for the stage 3 fight on Babidi's ship. He has watery eyes and is drooling a little.
Yup. Here's what it looks like in Z:

Image
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:46 am

Interesting. Even when you remove the colour cast, they're still tinted. Either my 5 minutes of colour correction suck or that's how it is on the cel.

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by kei17 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:18 am

Dogasu wrote:Yup. Here's what it looks like in Z:

Image
That's an inappropriate screencap. Here's how it actually looks on the DBox.

Image

With my quick color correction applied:

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Dogasu » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:24 am

I took it from the North American Dragon Box so I'm not sure what the problem was.
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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:35 am

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:I hate to ask, but I for the life of me don't remember Goku crying in the Buu Saga, if not all of Z. When/where does this happen? Can I see a screenshot?
I'm pretty sure he's just referring to the shot of Goku yawning as they wait for the stage 3 fight on Babidi's ship. He has watery eyes and is drooling a little.

EDIT - So I just finished watching the episode and, while I enjoyed it, I do agree that I might as well have been watching Z. What I really want to see are some new eye-catches. I really hope the international version has changing eye-catches like the first phase of Kai and TOEI just didn't bother putting in the effort to change them for their edited down version.
Ah ok that makes a lot more sense. Thanks! :)

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Re: Kai Episode 111 (29 June 2014)

Post by Ajay » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:06 am

kei17 wrote: With my quick color correction applied:

Image
Ah, that's much better. I did wonder why his screenshot was so bright and saturated. Made it a bitch to fix the colours on.

Well anyway, there you go! Even with your much better job, it's still got some very strange tint to it.
I took it from the North American Dragon Box so I'm not sure what the problem was.
You don't accidentally have your saturation or brightness/contrast altered in VLC, do you?
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