Super Episode 103 (13 August 2017)

[Asura]

[precita]

She seems to be the youngest of all the Angels, given she looks like a kid while the rest of them look like adults. I know she's still likely billions of years old, but she's a "kid in Angel age" so to speak.

Maybe that's why she's so sad.

[KameNinja45]

Looks it will be about speed, so SSG may really have this advantage, also the stamina.

So he uses Blue on weak fighters like u9 but when it comes to someone stronger than Hit he uses a weaker form ?

Goku only used Blue to knock out three Danger bros along with Vegeta.
He used Blue on Kale and got bodied. We know Goku was holding back, as usual.

He also used it on that one dude in the first episode of the Tournament, episode 97.

[JazzMazz]

I really wish they'd just drop trying to do the Z thing of having repeated frames over and over and actually try to do something more, like Higashide's cut this episode. At least Tate makes them interesting and expressive. The more Super will try to take from Z, the more it will suck. The best part of it's fights till now have been how different and unique they are, but now everything is the same shit we got for 20 years. Fuck that.

I'm okay with it as long as it's done well and if there are interesting elements that give flavour to the fights occurring at the same time.

The things is, most of the times it's not. It wasn't in Z and it isn't in Super. Except for Tate's work in episodes 79, 86 and this one, I haven't found any interesting bit of repeated frames since the Namek arc (including GT).

There have been plenty of other instances where repeat frames have been done interestingly, something I should add is that I personally prefer when repeat frames are mixed in with other choreography. Having fights purely made out of repeat frames can be tedious if handled poorly.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Having repeated frames isn't an inherently bad thing, though will say that I will always prefer repeat frames when they are put around more interesting choreography.

[Grand Elder Togu]

RIP alien dude who could use the Musou Tensei, you were pretty cool.

[KingKaash]

I don't know if this is a spoiler or if it's just your prediction for what will happen, but if it is a spoiler please refrain from talking about spoilers in the episode discussion threads in the future, thanks.

It was in the preview. I thought everyone who comments on this thread has seen the episode and the preview to the next episode that airs right after the show has ended. Everyone is talking about SSJG which is also in the next episode so I assumed it's safe to talk about

Ah, sorry then. The way I read it made it seem like you possibly had inside information about Dyspo being knocked out. That's why I said I didn't know if you were just predicting he'd be knocked out or if you actually knew for certain due to spoilers.

NEP is definitely fair game, no worries.

No worries! And ahh I see why you could think that now. No I'm just taking a guess. I highly doubt that Dyspo and his fellow Pride Trooper survive a dream tag team of Goku and Hit. But I could be totally wrong. I made all my guesses based on the NEP.

[Nickolaidas]

Then you go anywhere else and people are in love with it.

I can see why you love Super (based from your avatar), but claiming that 'anywhere else Super is loved' is just as much of a stretch as my statement that the show is suffering. Maybe 'anywhere else' is places where most of the viewers are kids who are too young to see the narrative issues with this arc? Or maybe kanzenshuu is a place with a lot of 30-year-olds whose expectations are bigger than just hearing Goku, Vegeta and Gohan go ATATATATATATATTATATATATAA (which by the way, used to be Krillin's trademark attack shout back in the original DB anime).

I didn't mean that Super is crap, or that this arc is crap. I meant that the Battle Royale had the potential to be a 20 out of 10 arc, to be THE arc, and yet it's a mediocre arc with episodes filled with ups and downs. The biggest issue is the pacing, the narrative and the writing (concerning some of the characters' personalities). It could be worse, but it could be a lot, lot better.

The mere fact that 90% of the ring-outs was caused by U7 speaks volumes of how the viewer's suspension of disbelief is put into question.

The only problem is not showing the other universes fight each other, it's like everyone is standing around just waiting for their turn to attack Universe 7.

If it weren't for that oddity, everything is progressing swimmingly.

That's a huge minus, if you ask me.

[Zagacious]

They're rushing through the fights to get rid of the fodder characters and reach the battles that actually matter. Hence, I want them to get to the point because it's clear they're putting minimal effort into these episodes. If they don't care about these new characters, why should I? It's a snoozefest.
Ideally, I should be anticipating the final battles, but also be enjoying the initial ones enough to not mind them getting to the point or not because enough care and creativity is being placed into the episodes to keep me entertained while it all builds up to the climax. Hell, the Zeno exhibition was also way more interesting and made me care more for those wolf guys than nearly every single new character introduced since.

The beginning of the tournament felt perfectly paced and had lots of little interesting battles between characters. Now a lot of it is just rushed fights of two people running back and forth and firing a few energy blasts then knocked out or moved onto another fight within a minute. This is fine for fodder characters but they're also doing it on characters that I feel are important like Ribrianne. It doesn't help that the tournament is starting to feel rushed now they're eliminating universes very quickly.

I understand they're saving the best fights for last, but I just expected a few more characters from other universes to have meaningful battles and not get KO'ed with minimal effort. It's kind of disappointing to not see anyone but the U6 Saiyans, Hit, Jiren, Toppo, and U7 have meaningful battles. Trio De Dangers had a good attempt but they were wasted by trying to take on two of the strongest fighters too early. Based on what we've seen, I believe the Trio De Dangers could have been in the top 10 if they had not taken on U7 right away.

For example It'd be really interesting to see Bergamo vs Android 17 or Gohan. A much better fight than having them against Goku and Vegeta. A lot of these fights can be more interesting if they match up characters that are closer in power, which isn't possible unfortunately because they made a majority of fighters way too weak IMO. It's also starting to seem like they're making these match ups imbalanced just to end the fight as quickly as possible. Android 17 is doing awesome lately but it's also hilighting how much of the other characters are being wasted when he just dominates them effortlessly. It'd be even better if they actually stood a chance but they clearly don't.

[Pluto]

She seems to be the youngest of all the Angels, given she looks like a kid while the rest of them look like adults. I know she's still likely billions of years old, but she's a "kid in Angel age" so to speak.

Maybe that's why she's so sad.

GP looks even younger tbh. Maybe their father is an infant...you know, the son of that embryo.

[JazzMazz]

Yeah we're asking for good animation because looking at the Future Trunks Arc the team IS capable of providing us with that kind of quality.

And no, the later half of the episode had shit animation

https://imgur.com/LtWlf19
https://imgur.com/vPM5bYF

You said the later half of the episode had terrible animation, but then proceed to show us pedestrian animation from the 1st half of the episode and nothing from the latter to prove your point. The team is certainly capable of delivering good animation, and they delivered in the second half of the episode, which had the longest animation highlight of the entire show.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Call me crazy, but this episode of Super made me feel a little something. I've been mostly just going through the motions of watching an episode of this series, and then done. I made a comment in another thread a while back about being bored with Super, but I don't think that's entirely true. It's mostly a combination of the weekly schedule and the general lackluster execution, so I tend not to think about the series much during the week, if at all. I've been of the opinion that for any great moments/episodes that Super has delivered on, it requires having to get through so much mediocrity (in comparison to the previous series). Moments similar to what happened in this episode are the kinds of things that I'm looking for in the DB story.

The stuff with Goku and #17 was great, as was #17 in general. But, the highlight for me was Piccolo/Gohan. Seeing Piccolo getting some action (and, wow, a signature attack worked!), and then observing as Gohan adjusts and has to take out a combatant, and then seeing how he responded to being responsible for the erasure of U10... that felt like it was channeling Z there, in regards to their dynamic. And Piccolo's art looked so good this episode too (I would say that he was previously by far the most off-model character in the series ). Goku later briefly watching on was also a nice touch. Looking at the staff listings, Yoshifumi Fukushima is credited with scenario/writer, and Hideki Hiroshima as director. They seem to get these characters. The look of the action in general was above the usual standards for Super, imo, particularly in the second half. Great stuff all around.

The U10 angel (Cus?), is easily one of the most adorable characters in the DB franchise in the little bit of time that we've seen her, and her reaction at the end was a bit sad to see. She appeared to have developed much fondness for the universe that she was assigned to.

U7 has been eliminating almost everybody, which is kinda funny in that's how it's played out so far, and they really could be perceived by others as the "evil" universe as it's happened. The other universe combatants don't appear to really care about eliminating anyone so far (ex. Jiren/Kale,etc.) except for when they turn their attention towards Team U7. Although, there has been a couple exceptions (and Hit has made some saves for U6).

The usual flaws remain with Super and are to be expected by this point, but the good far outweighed the lackluster here. I'll have to watch this episode again. Well done, Super.

[Asura]

Then you go anywhere else and people are in love with it.

I can see why you love Super (based from your avatar), but claiming that 'anywhere else Super is loved' is just as much of a stretch as my statement that the show is suffering. Maybe 'anywhere else' is places where most of the viewers are kids who are too young to see the narrative issues with this arc? Or maybe kanzenshuu is a place with a lot of 30-year-olds whose expectations are bigger than just hearing Goku, Vegeta and Gohan go ATATATATATATATTATATATATAA (which by the way, used to be Krillin's trademark attack shout back in the original DB anime).

I didn't mean that Super is crap, or that this arc is crap. I meant that the Battle Royale had the potential to be a 20 out of 10 arc, to be THE arc, and yet it's a mediocre arc with episodes filled with ups and downs. The biggest issue is the pacing, the narrative and the writing (concerning some of the characters' personalities). It could be worse, but it could be a lot, lot better.

The mere fact that 90% of the ring-outs was caused by U7 speaks volumes of how the viewer's suspension of disbelief is put into question.

The only problem is not showing the other universes fight each other, it's like everyone is standing around just waiting for their turn to attack Universe 7.

If it weren't for that oddity, everything is progressing swimmingly.

That's a huge minus, if you ask me.

The proof is in the pudding. You can go almost anywhere and see positive remarks about this arc. YouTube channels of famous DB youtubers, dbz subreddit, different polls, hell I even checked out /a/ yesterday which I never go to and found that surprisingly there wasn't much negativity at all. Mostly people just fighting about Gohan and Caulifla .

I'm not saying it's like universally praised or something and everywhere you go you'll never find any negativity or that it's the perfect arc or something, but when people make statements like the show is suffering or the majority of people hate the show and/or the arc or blahblahblah literally all you need to do is take a look around to see that none of that is true.

[dualist]

Love the episode, but I just Super slowed down just a tad bit. While people complained that the pace of DBZ was too slow (I personally never had a problem with it, but then again, but the time I watched the dub, I could binge watch them), DBS moves entirely too fast. I missed when fights lasted a least an episode instead of less than half of one. Things just move so fast. The Piccolo fight took a moment that could've been so cool, and sped it up to the point where he was getting punched from the very beginning of the fight straight to a successful Hellzone Grenade. On top of that, Although it wa nice to finally see the move be successful, they used the same attack earlier! Good ep though.

[precita]

These fights don't need to last long. As we said, the "big" fights of the tournament once we get down to 10 remaining fighters will likely go on a number of episodes.

I also find it bizarre people act like old DBZ fights with "underlings" ever lasted more than 1 episode. The only exception is Nappa:

- Vegeta Vs. Cui is 10 minutes long
- Vegeta Vs. Dodoria, if you cut out the flashback scenes, happens in less than 10 minutes
- Vegeta Vs. Zarbon both fights only last an episode
- Guldo's fight is a single episode
- Goku against Burter/Jeice is 1 episode
- Vegeta/Jeice is 1 episode
- Ginyu versus Goku, and then in Goku's body, the actual fights were only 1 episode

- Vegeta/19 is less than an episode
- Vegeta/18 is 1 episode
- Piccolo/17 the actual fight is 1 episode

- Vegeta/Pui Pui is 1 episode
- Goku/Yakon is 1 episode
- Gohan/Dabura if you just count the fight and not the other scenes in the episode, the actual fight is less than 10 minutes

[GodKaio-Ken]

Then you go anywhere else and people are in love with it.

I can see why you love Super (based from your avatar), but claiming that 'anywhere else Super is loved' is just as much of a stretch as my statement that the show is suffering. Maybe 'anywhere else' is places where most of the viewers are kids who are too young to see the narrative issues with this arc? Or maybe kanzenshuu is a place with a lot of 30-year-olds whose expectations are bigger than just hearing Goku, Vegeta and Gohan go ATATATATATATATTATATATATAA (which by the way, used to be Krillin's trademark attack shout back in the original DB anime).

I didn't mean that Super is crap, or that this arc is crap. I meant that the Battle Royale had the potential to be a 20 out of 10 arc, to be THE arc, and yet it's a mediocre arc with episodes filled with ups and downs. The biggest issue is the pacing, the narrative and the writing (concerning some of the characters' personalities). It could be worse, but it could be a lot, lot better.

The mere fact that 90% of the ring-outs was caused by U7 speaks volumes of how the viewer's suspension of disbelief is put into question.

The only problem is not showing the other universes fight each other, it's like everyone is standing around just waiting for their turn to attack Universe 7.

If it weren't for that oddity, everything is progressing swimmingly.

That's a huge minus, if you ask me.

It is a huge minus. Its like "A bird pooped in my ice cream...but hey its still mostly ice cream so its fine"

Though I am enjoying the arc I do fully understand that criticism. My only hope is we see more and more as the field dwindles down.

[Zagacious]

The mere fact that 90% of the ring-outs was caused by U7 speaks volumes of how the viewer's suspension of disbelief is put into question.

The only problem is not showing the other universes fight each other, it's like everyone is standing around just waiting for their turn to attack Universe 7.

If it weren't for that oddity, everything is progressing swimmingly.

That's a huge minus, if you ask me.

It is a huge minus. Its like "A bird pooped in my ice cream...but hey its still mostly ice cream so its fine"

Though I am enjoying the arc I do fully understand that criticism. My only hope is we see more and more as the field dwindles down.

That's a huge part of it, but it's also that they made everyone but U7, U6 Saiyans, Hit, Toppo, and Jiren, all incredibly weak. Them taking on U7 could have been interesting if even a single one of them stood a chance. At least have some of the weaker Z fighters taking on these fodder characters to make it a good fight, but it's not even really that, even the weaker characters mostly KO them effortlessly.

They've also made 'hyped up' characters like Ribrianne way too weak and wasted good characters too quickly by putting them against strong characters - like putting Trio De Dangers against Goku and Vegeta immediately, when I believe they are in the top 10 power wise. Putting the weaker Prider Troopers against Kale and Kaulifla and Toppo doesn't even interfere, but just lets them get ringed out? The ring outs are starting to feel like they're purposely just trying to rush things. And as awesome as Android 17 was the characters they put him against were far too weak, they had absolutely no chance of beating him.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't really enjoy fights where one fighter has no chance whatsoever of winning and the stronger fighter is just screwing around cause it's too easy.

[gofishus]

These fights don't need to last long. As we said, the "big" fights of the tournament once we get down to 10 remaining fighters will likely go on a number of episodes.

I also find it bizarre people act like old DBZ fights with "underlings" ever lasted more than 1 episode. The only exception is Nappa:

- Vegeta Vs. Cui is 10 minutes long
- Vegeta Vs. Dodoria, if you cut out the flashback scenes, happens in less than 10 minutes
- Vegeta Vs. Zarbon both fights only last an episode
- Guldo's fight is a single episode
- Goku against Burter/Jeice is 1 episode
- Vegeta/Jeice is 1 episode
- Ginyu versus Goku, and then in Goku's body, the actual fights were only 1 episode

- Vegeta/19 is less than an episode
- Vegeta/18 is 1 episode
- Piccolo/17 the actual fight is 1 episode

- Vegeta/Pui Pui is 1 episode
- Goku/Yakon is 1 episode
- Gohan/Dabura if you just count the fight and not the other scenes in the episode, the actual fight is less than 10 minutes

How many fights in Super (if you take out non related scenes) with minor villains... is actually 10 minutes long?

[Jigurashi]

These fights don't need to last long. As we said, the "big" fights of the tournament once we get down to 10 remaining fighters will likely go on a number of episodes.

I also find it bizarre people act like old DBZ fights with "underlings" ever lasted more than 1 episode. The only exception is Nappa:

- Vegeta Vs. Cui is 10 minutes long
- Vegeta Vs. Dodoria, if you cut out the flashback scenes, happens in less than 10 minutes
- Vegeta Vs. Zarbon both fights only last an episode
- Guldo's fight is a single episode
- Goku against Burter/Jeice is 1 episode
- Vegeta/Jeice is 1 episode
- Ginyu versus Goku, and then in Goku's body, the actual fights were only 1 episode

- Vegeta/19 is less than an episode
- Vegeta/18 is 1 episode
- Piccolo/17 the actual fight is 1 episode

- Vegeta/Pui Pui is 1 episode
- Goku/Yakon is 1 episode
- Gohan/Dabura if you just count the fight and not the other scenes in the episode, the actual fight is less than 10 minutes

How many fights in Super (if you take out non related scenes) with minor villains... is actually 10 minutes long?

Most fights in Super range from like 2-6 minutes. You get some that are longer than that and stretch out to like half an episode long, the occasional one episode long fights, and usually the big fights of Super are like 3 episodes long with Goku VS Beerus being the exception at like what? 5 or 6 episodes long?

[gofishus]

These fights don't need to last long. As we said, the "big" fights of the tournament once we get down to 10 remaining fighters will likely go on a number of episodes.

I also find it bizarre people act like old DBZ fights with "underlings" ever lasted more than 1 episode. The only exception is Nappa:

- Vegeta Vs. Cui is 10 minutes long
- Vegeta Vs. Dodoria, if you cut out the flashback scenes, happens in less than 10 minutes
- Vegeta Vs. Zarbon both fights only last an episode
- Guldo's fight is a single episode
- Goku against Burter/Jeice is 1 episode
- Vegeta/Jeice is 1 episode
- Ginyu versus Goku, and then in Goku's body, the actual fights were only 1 episode

- Vegeta/19 is less than an episode
- Vegeta/18 is 1 episode
- Piccolo/17 the actual fight is 1 episode

- Vegeta/Pui Pui is 1 episode
- Goku/Yakon is 1 episode
- Gohan/Dabura if you just count the fight and not the other scenes in the episode, the actual fight is less than 10 minutes

How many fights in Super (if you take out non related scenes) with minor villains... is actually 10 minutes long?

Most fights in Super range from like 2-6 minutes. You get some that are longer than that and stretch out to like half an episode long, the occasional one episode long fights, and usually the big fights of Super are like 3 episodes long with Goku VS Beerus being the exception at like what? 5 or 6 episodes long?

Yeah I think the fights in Super with minor villains is slightly less than the fights with minor villains in Z whereas the fights with major villains in Super is MUCH less than the fights with major villains in Z. Remember how many episodes it took to beat Frieza, Semi-perfect Cell, Perfect Cell, Majin Buu, Kid Buu etc? I would say several times more episodes than in Super. The longest fight we got in Super was with Beerus and that wasn't even that long.

[Jigurashi]

How many fights in Super (if you take out non related scenes) with minor villains... is actually 10 minutes long?

Most fights in Super range from like 2-6 minutes. You get some that are longer than that and stretch out to like half an episode long, the occasional one episode long fights, and usually the big fights of Super are like 3 episodes long with Goku VS Beerus being the exception at like what? 5 or 6 episodes long?

Yeah I think the fights in Super with minor villains is slightly less than the fights with minor villains in Z whereas the fights with major villains in Super is MUCH less than the fights with major villains in Z. Remember how many episodes it took to beat Frieza, Semi-perfect Cell, Perfect Cell, Majin Buu, Kid Buu etc? I would say several times more episodes than in Super. The longest fight we got in Super was with Beerus and that wasn't even that long.

I'm kind of mixed on it. As for example, I had no problem with like Vegeta VS Zarbon being an episode long, or even Vegeta VS Black II being only like 2-3 minutes long. It really depends on the fight for me. For example, Semi-Perfect Cell VS Vegeta being as long as it was in the anime was terrible to me. I absolutely hated how long that fight seemed when it was essentially just Vegeta clowning Cell for like what? 40 minutes until he eventually lets him go to absorb 18? I didn't need 40 minutes of that. That could have been shortened down to like say 10-15 minutes and It would get the same effect. Then there's things in Super like how I felt Vegetto VS Zamasu could have gone on for around 2 episodes long I feel. I feel that would have helped that saga out. Then add an extra two episodes after that for the finale. Would have helped things not feel so rushed near the end.