Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Pluto » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:29 am

You have to admit, the mutual respect between Goku and Hit is goosebumps stuff.
Hit's Assassination technique still seems to be a mystery, the "shockwaves" dont seem to be it.
In general, this was Hit's episode, as Jiren was clearly worried by Hit, he must've noticed his "improvement" thing. I wouldnt be surprised if he kicks him out for strategy reasons.

And good to see that Toppo got bitchslapped by reality, i really dont like that guy.

The Vuvuzela thing cracked me down laughing, and then Vados saying shit like the frequency can be filtered out, that is exactly what they did after the group games in WC 2010 in SA :D...neat.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Cetra » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:32 am

Razz wrote:Can anyone explain Hit time skip? How come dyspo was domination the first half of the episode and then suddenly he started losing the grip of the fight against Hit.
Hit fooled him by simply switching between normal moves and Time Skip so the other guy could not predict what he would do because Hit readied both things the same way. Also Hit adapted a lot to improve again like he did against Goku.

Dyspo more or less did what Super 17 did to counter Goku's Teleportation in GT. Not exactly the same of course.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:44 am

Pluto wrote:You have to admit, the mutual respect between Goku and Hit is goosebumps stuff.
Hit's Assassination technique still seems to be a mystery, the "shockwaves" dont seem to be it.
In general, this was Hit's episode, as Jiren was clearly worried by Hit, he must've noticed his "improvement" thing. I wouldnt be surprised if he kicks him out for strategy reasons.

And good to see that Toppo got bitchslapped by reality, i really dont like that guy.

The Vuvuzela thing cracked me down laughing, and then Vados saying shit like the frequency can be filtered out, that is exactly what they did after the group games in WC 2010 in SA :D...neat.
He didn't seem exactly worried to me. It was more like him being irritated/realized that there are some legitimately powerful people there in this tournament that are worth more than the treatment he gave Kale.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by KingKaash » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:47 am

Beautiful episode! :clap: Overall it was a pretty technical fighting episode where moves/techniques/strategies are really clashing with each other. Normally it's just power vs power with a little strategy mixed in that gets figured out rather quickly. And I like Champa a lot. He provided great comedic relief during the tense parts of the fight so I thought the writing was well done for this episode. Also the vuvuzela things was hilarious as was the replay addition to the godPad.

Best part about that episode was that characters outside of Universe 7 shined, even though Goku took part in this episode. This was one of the best fights of the entire ToP because it featured Hit vs Dyspo. To see Hit get pushed around like that by Dyspo at the beginning was astounding. I give a lot of credit now to Dyspo. He was able to push around both Hit and SSJG Goku. I would place Dyspo in the Gohan/Android 17/Golden Frieza category. Again it was pretty technical but it was good clash of styles.

I'm also very happy SSJG came back! I liked the SSJG form way better than SSJB because of it's design so it was a welcomed sight. Also it was a good showcase of it's power versus Dyspo to showcase it's strengths. Well done. I don't follow the manga, but I heard Vegeta had switched back and forth between SSJG and SSJB against Goku Black I believe. It's an awesome strategy and I was happy to see Goku use such a good strategy. I hope to see more of that.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Pluto » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:54 am

Jigurashi wrote:He didn't seem exactly worried to me. It was more like him being irritated/realized that there are some legitimately powerful people there in this tournament that are worth more than the treatment he gave Kale.
Heeey, not everyone worries on Krillin level and sweats like a pig :P.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:55 am

Pluto wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:He didn't seem exactly worried to me. It was more like him being irritated/realized that there are some legitimately powerful people there in this tournament that are worth more than the treatment he gave Kale.
Heeey, not everyone worries on Krillin level and sweats like a pig :P.
Fair enough. You're right. :D

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:14 am

So after seeing praise for the episode everywhere I go, decided on giving this one a shot after so long..
Boy, was that a great episode, it might just be because my internet shat itself and I was basically watching the episode as 10 second clips for hours, but this helped me understand every single shot and the strategy used in a clarity I haven't experienced before in super..
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:29 am

#104

Outside of SSG's return being completely thrown to the way-side and doing nothing angering fans, everything else was pretty well-done.

First off, I really liked the amount of focus this episode had. Where previous episodes had been all over the place, this episode focuses on one fight, which I felt was something that really needed to be done.

Secondly, I really liked the suspense in the first half and strategies employed by both Dyspo and Hit to eliminate each other. Hit slowly figuring out Dyspo's strategy was really fun to watch, though something that did irk me about this episode is the fact they gave away their strategy once it had been guessed at.

Thirdly, though I didn't like Goku going SSG, I did like how their two way tag-team demonstrated their different approaches as fighters. While Goku more relied upon sheer power, Hit tended to be far more crafty and careful.

The animation was okay, though nothing particularly spectacular like the second half of last episode, however, I would say it was more the directing and storyboarding that made this episode visually interesting.

Overall, a really solid episode which goes to show that focus in episodes can do a great deal to increase how engaging episodes are.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by MaskedRider » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:30 am

HEY! I think we're forgetting to mention something worth mentioning. Vados referring back to the fight Goku had against Hit when he was hired to assassinate him. Would that make JUST those two episodes part of the anime canon? Eh, actually typing it out I don't want to even talk whats canon :crazy:

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Pluto » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:38 am

MaskedRider wrote:HEY! I think we're forgetting to mention something worth mentioning. Vados referring back to the fight Goku had against Hit when he was hired to assassinate him. Would that make JUST those two episodes part of the anime canon? Eh, actually typing it out I don't want to even talk whats canon :crazy:
Here: https://imgur.com/a/QuymA , what i consider canon(s)
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:39 am

Also, I think Sumitomo finally mastered decent music place as of this episode.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Kishido » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:42 am

BTW with this side I have given up trying to explain power levels since Super.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:48 am

MaskedRider wrote:HEY! I think we're forgetting to mention something worth mentioning. Vados referring back to the fight Goku had against Hit when he was hired to assassinate him. Would that make JUST those two episodes part of the anime canon? Eh, actually typing it out I don't want to even talk whats canon :crazy:
I thought it was canon the moment Hitto used it in the ToP. Vados bringing up the fight in episode 72 just reinforces that.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by emperior » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:58 am

This is the best episode of the tournament so far.
The action was nice and Hit continues to confirm himself as one of the best characters in the show, he's definitely one of my favorites.
Super has indeed some flaws but I can't get how people can literally hate a show that is constantly bringing us awesome new characters, such as Hit, Black, Zamasu and Caulifla. Not to mention Freeza has been very entertaining ever since he was brought back again.

It wasn't explained why Super Saiyan God came back but I expected as much.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by SonReggie » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:00 am

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote: kinda miffed how Goku ended up using Vegeta's strategy in the manga and how now he gets the credit for it lol.
Likewise - but then again, not really a surprise. Can't have Vegeta doing something unique, can we. Every new technique and/or new transformation HAS to be given to Goku just incase anyone forgets that he is so much more awesome than anyone else.

The people writing this stuff are dumbasses to the extreme.

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Basako » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:10 am

This was a great episode. Toshio's great writing is totally being a pattern, not only he is cool on Twitter, his episodes are awesome. Great guy!

There is a lot to talk about. The episode had very cool action and tones of exposition dump, which is great, so many things have been clarified and many headcanons should be dropped.

The SSG returns, Goku just taps into it like any other transformation. It's funny to remember all the hate the manga and Toyotaro received for the same and in the anime he could do it all this time too. Toyotaro just made a much better work telling us how the form works. So, the idea that it's only possible to become SSG with the ritual has to be dropped. The SSG base theory is debunked too, because why would he transform if he had the power in base anyway. I'm sure Vegeta can transform too, I hope we see it, the manga brought it, but the anime is the one with colors.

Hit vs Dyspo was so cool. First it was fun to hear about Dyspo's resemblance with Beerus and Champa. Dyspo's superspeed and great hearing nullify the time skip. Hit was going to win anyway, if it had been one on one, he tricked him. But it's a team battle, Kunshee saves Dyspo and they start fighting two on one. There comes Goku in red.

Goku's form is stated to have the advantage of draining less stamina but lower power and speed. I have to drop the idea tha the red could be faster than the blue here, that's what I thought before. He taps to the blue only to attack, that's like in the manga. Apart from maintaining this form consumes less, I think tapping to the blue from red many times has to consume less than doing it the same amount of times from base, does it make sense?

Well, Dyspo is still fast enough to fight Goku in red and not let him use the instant transmission. But Goku has the blue yet. Kunshee uses his energy whips as defense, but Hit uses his distant move, which we saw in the filler episode before, that was cool. However, Hit and Goku switch, Hit wants to handle Dyspo on his own, Goku totally gets it.

The second time Hit uses Dyspo's tactic against him and he is able to confuse him and surprise him. He is going to win, but Kunshee sacrifices himself to save Dyspo, who is a more valuable fighter and escapes. I think Goku will have his revenge too, Hit totally had it.

Goku asks Hit about their rematch, Hit decides not yet, they are in a truce now, for the help. Both are so cool!
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Miracles » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:20 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:The episode was cool, but Dragon Ball Super is such bullshit. I am so fucking sick of the lack of fucking explanations for anything in this asinine show. NO ONE even was phased that he used Super Saiyan God again, or how it is possible.

Fuck this shitty show. I may just drop it.
You need to first prove to yourself where was it ever stated that SSJG was suppose to be done away with?
Other than that, good episode.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by supersaiyan1993 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:21 am

Atleast champa mentioned that dyspo resembles beerus. Anyway the episode was good. I'm glad god made a return, but I was expecting some reaction from kale atleast. I wonder if vegeta will use this form aswell and will any of the other saiyans obtain it in the tournament since u7 and u6 can team up again

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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:30 am

Why did Goku have to intervene and why couldn't someone else from Universe 6 help instead. The episode was so much better until he turned up.

The fight between Dyspo and Hit was probably the best one so far in the tournament and Hit just reminds of Piccolo when he fighys.

Why are Kale and Caulifla still in? There is no way they have been sitting there that long with no one coming to knock them out and they are obviously in no condition to fight so what good are they going to be leater.

Toriyama or Toei must remember the 2010 world cup with them using a vuvuzela to distract Dyspo.

Next episode seems to have many Universe 4 people in action and wouldn't be surprised if they are onlu left with the 2 bugs in the end. Roshi is using an item and will be disqualified if he uses it unless Piccolo creates it out of nowhere for him which Piccolo might be able to do.
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Re: Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:30 am

I'm so conflicted with this episode. It represented the best and worst of Dragon Ball.

Let me just start off by saying that Hit is a fucking awesome character. Like... holy shit. He won over in the Champa arc, but as of now, he's broken in my top five list of favorite characters in all of Dragon Ball. He carried the episode so damn well. From how he acted to getting his Time-Skip countered, to how he addressed the issue with his Time Skip being countered, and his chemistry with Goku is just way too good for it's own right. I never thought Goku and Hit teaming up, for as brief as it was, would be so damn entertaining. It was much like when Goku and Piccolo teamed up for the first time in the Saiyan arc. But I oddly got more satisfaction out Goku and Hit teaming up then Goku and Piccolo. Just everything about Hit in this episode was top brass.

That being said, this episode unfortunately has the huge black eye in the fashion of SSJG reappearing. I've talked about in length in the Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread, so I'll just rephrase myself:

I'm hoping they explain the re-appearance of SSJG, because something is definitely up with why now it's being used. If Goku knew he could use SSJG at point, why on earth did he not think about to use it at any stage before the tournament? Why did he spam the shit out SSJB after the events of the Resurrection F arc? If we don't get an explanation as to how Goku can use SSJG in the anime before the tournament ends, I'll be really fucking annoyed. And as of right now, this kinda retroactively ruins a hell of a lot Super for me if no good explanation is provided of how can use SSJG now. This really does seem like something Toriyama specifically wanted to be thrown into the tournament. Maybe we'll get an explanation for when Goku's new form pops up, so there jury is still out. But as of now... goddammit Super. You royally fumbled the grand return of SSJG. And just to makes things even more confusing, Goku can alternate between SSJB and SSJB, just like what Vegeta pulled off in the manga. Which begs the question... how strong is Goku's base form? Because with what's happened right now, we'll never be able to solve that.

90% of it was fantastic and some of the best stuff that Super has provided so far in terms of fighting with the amount of strategy and team work that was incorporated. But how they fumbled SSJG coming back just annoys the hell of out of me and drags the episode down. The fashion of which SSJG came back in the episode is exactly how I didn't want it happen. For SSJG to just reappear once again with no real rhyme or reason in narrative, when it could appeared so many episodes ago. It's cheap fanservice up to eleven. I really liked seeing SSJG again because I love the form... but... fucking hell. It's return could have been handled way better.

The episode overall is still very good and the best of the tournament and one of the best episodes of Super so far. But dammit, it still could have been a lot better. Like "one of the best episodes in the franchise" better. C'est la vie.

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