Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

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Saturnine
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Saturnine » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 am

The DB wiki has gone from Super Saiyan (Kale) through Super Saiyan (Controlled) through "Super Saiyan Green". No idea where those nimrods got that one from :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:04 am

CabbaxCaulifla wrote:
Tombstone1988 wrote: Saying that, I still think that Ganos was portrayed as a bit too weak and I still dislike the sequence with Caway.
Not at all, it was stated Ganos had Roshi beat when it came to strength. Besides, complaining about power levels here is ridiculous.

As for Ganos, being team Captain doesn't mean he's the strongest. Like how Toppo is U11's leader, but Jiren is the team's strongest fighter.
It's not really about power levels, but relative power and consistency. As I stated in an earlier post, the parent show DBZ made it a pretty well-established rule that if a fighter was significantly stronger than his opponent(s), their attacks couldn't really phase him. Therefore, in order for the sequence to make sense in the context of the show's rules, Ganos has to be relatively close in power to Roshi. Considering the events that occurred, I'm sure he likely is. However, this leads to the second thing, consistency. If Ganos is indeed only in Roshi's ballpark when it comes to power, why was Ganos chosen to be the one to interrupt Goku back in episode 97? After all, if Roshi destroyed an un-transformed Ganos, then there's absolutely no way he would stand any chance against Goku. But the writers chose him to be the one to block Goku.

You can argue this is only a minor gripe, and, to be fair, it is. But I'm the type of individual that notices small details like this, and it is a problem with the show. The simplest explanation is likely that the writer for episode 97 wasn't on the same page as the writers for other episodes (hence Ganos being chosen to intercept Goku, as well as 18 sparring with Cocotte, then somehow apparently disengaging that fight and knocking out the Universe 9 bunny girl next episode and having no acknowledgement of sparring with Cocotte in episode 101). Again, it's really only a minor issue, but it's still a reoccurring problem in my opinion.
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by HeroR » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:01 am

Hakaishin Liquir wrote:Does anyone else find it weird that one of the ten stronger warriors from Universe 4 is being portrayed as a complete amateur when it comes to actual martial arts techniques? Shouldn't the best fighters in an entire universe be martial arts geniuses? (unless they're born with an absurdly high power level like Freeza or Buu)
Ganos had the power to get stronger by the second. If he hung in there, he would have become so powerful that no amount of being clever would have saved anyone. Remember, Goku went Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan against Krillin to see what he would do against an opponent that he could never defeat. So if the power ceiling is high enough, you can be the best martial artist in the multiverse, and you will still get wracked.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:39 am

CabbaxCaulifla wrote:And unfortunately for you, most people seem to want more of the U6 Saiyans in the next arc.
Well, good for them. I don't begrudge anyone else for what they want. I was stating my own opinion, which I'm completely allowed to have. There's no need to make this personal with inflammatory language like "unfortunately for you".
CabbaxCaulifla wrote:Besides, unlike Trunks and Goten, who also unlocked Super Saiyan rather easily, she did it on screen.
Yes, with her "tingly back". I realize that people's mileage will vary with that one, but for me I'd have rather it happen offscreen with no explanation at all than let Caulifla be the butt of a joke that cheapens Super Saiyan even more than Goten and Trunks did.
CabbaxCaulifla wrote:Well that's an opinion, a highly incorrect one. She's not a Mary Sue, if she was, she could go higher than Super Saiyan 2.
How on earth does Super Saiyan 3 by itself somehow determine Mary Sue status when all of Caulifla's transformations have been free magic to begin with? She's on the verge of getting Super Saiyan 3 anyway, if Goku's line is any indication. Are you saying that she can legally be classified a Mary Sue then? O_o
CabbaxCaulifla wrote:Because individually, they're not all that great. In fact, individually they're worthless as fighters. Only as Gotenks do either even have any unique attacks.
Well, I can't argue much with ya here. At least not with them being relatively worthless as individual fighters in context with the greater scheme of things. I can only hope it changes at some point.
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:29 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
CabbaxCaulifla wrote:And unfortunately for you, most people seem to want more of the U6 Saiyans in the next arc.
Well, good for them. I don't begrudge anyone else for what they want. I was stating my own opinion, which I'm completely allowed to have. There's no need to make this personal with inflammatory language like "unfortunately for you".
I'm with you Lemmy. I have no interest in the U6 Saiyans either; Cabba is boring and Caulifla is borderline Mary Sue. I'd much rather see Goten and Trunks get some much-needed development (especially Goten)

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:00 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:I'm with you Lemmy. I have no interest in the U6 Saiyans either; Cabba is boring and Caulifla is borderline Mary Sue. I'd much rather see Goten and Trunks get some much-needed development (especially Goten)
Solidarity, my brother. o.o

Although truthfully, I have no beef with Cabba whatsoever.
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:48 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:I'm with you Lemmy. I have no interest in the U6 Saiyans either; Cabba is boring and Caulifla is borderline Mary Sue. I'd much rather see Goten and Trunks get some much-needed development (especially Goten)
Solidarity, my brother. o.o

Although truthfully, I have no beef with Cabba whatsoever.
I don't have beef with him at all, I like him, he's just too boring to me. Caulifla and Kale can take a walk though.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:04 pm

Tombstone1988 wrote: I'm assuming your point is that you've read a lot of comics and they break their own rules all the time, so you don't really have a problem with Dragon Ball Super doing the same thing.
Exactly. I am more interested in DB episodes that give me feels, rather than make me question my knowledge of math.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:25 pm

Nickolaidas wrote: I am more interested in DB episodes that give me feels, rather than make me question my knowledge of math.
:lol: :lol:
That's a pretty fun way to put it
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by gohan_black » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:46 pm

THE UNIVERSE 7 WARIORS ARE WAY TOO OVERPOWERED FOR MY TASTE.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:56 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Li'l Lemmy wrote:
CabbaxCaulifla wrote:And unfortunately for you, most people seem to want more of the U6 Saiyans in the next arc.
Well, good for them. I don't begrudge anyone else for what they want. I was stating my own opinion, which I'm completely allowed to have. There's no need to make this personal with inflammatory language like "unfortunately for you".
I'm with you Lemmy. I have no interest in the U6 Saiyans either; Cabba is boring and Caulifla is borderline Mary Sue. I'd much rather see Goten and Trunks get some much-needed development (especially Goten)
I third this notion. We have joined forces as the three musketeers. All for one and one for all :lol:
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Zagacious » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:24 pm

HeroR wrote:
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:Does anyone else find it weird that one of the ten stronger warriors from Universe 4 is being portrayed as a complete amateur when it comes to actual martial arts techniques? Shouldn't the best fighters in an entire universe be martial arts geniuses? (unless they're born with an absurdly high power level like Freeza or Buu)
Ganos had the power to get stronger by the second. If he hung in there, he would have become so powerful that no amount of being clever would have saved anyone. Remember, Goku went Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan against Krillin to see what he would do against an opponent that he could never defeat. So if the power ceiling is high enough, you can be the best martial artist in the multiverse, and you will still get wracked.
I think people are greatly overestimating Ganos' ability just because Roshi said he believes 'He may become a challenge for Goku and the others'. It's been kind of a joke in DBZ (at least a joke to me) how the humans will always say 'This guy is SOOO Strong I don't know if even Goku can beat him!!" when we know Goku is very well going to beat them. People said the same thing about Bergamo's 'unlimited energy ceiling' and then he ended up just being trashed by Goku and Vegeta even with a team helping him. It simply doesn't make sense for a character that Roshi can defeat that easily, to become anywhere near Goku or Vegeta's power.

If his energy gain was that remarkable, he wouldn't have been taken out by Roshi so easily, he's had plenty of time to build up power before fighting Roshi. Roshi's probably much stronger than he was before, but people cannot improve that fast and without advancing their training methods in this series without some sort of explanation. Think back to when the Vegeta and Nappa landed, the humans couldn't even touch them, do you really think they've improved that much since then? At most they are somewhere around the fighters on Namek, Ginyu or Frieza level during the Namek saga at best, and I think that's being generous. It's another thing if they want to bring in god kai or something, that would make the humans actually relevant power-wise and it would make sense, but simply saying they trained off screen and are now SS,2,3 or above etc. just makes no sense.

Now i loved the episode, but the people Roshi fought were a lot weaker than expected, most certainly to give Roshi a good showing, and it worked to make a good episode. I much prefer this over people getting KO'ed with no effort like a few of the other episodes.
Last edited by Zagacious on Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:28 pm

Watched it again and, really, damn, Toei, for the love of god, PLEASE give us more episodes like this one!
Honestly I wasn't much into this arc but all previous episodes were worth it just so I could watch this one. Roshi was so badass, scenes were fantastic, the old feel of DB is totally in this episode for me. How many could think Roshi died? The old man walking on battlefield, observing everyone and knowing their techniques... And Beerus acknowledging him was real class too, the freaking god of Destruction asked "who is that old man? he rocks". Seriously, awesome. All in all I could feel the writers knew what they were doing here, it was an awesome homage to Muten Roshi, and for the fans highest pleasure.

Toei this is the right direction, this is the feels, this is how it is done. If only there were more episodes like this one, please keep it up!!!

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by TheBigBoy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:08 am

This is like a top 5 Super episode for me. Freaking loved it.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:25 am

gohan_black wrote:THE UNIVERSE 7 WARIORS ARE WAY TOO OVERPOWERED FOR MY TASTE.
First off, is the device your typing this on still stuck on caps? If so, when are you planning to get it fixed, because your posts look really loud.

I agree with you that the Universe 7 fighters are way to OP. Hopefully next episode they're going to be brought down a notch and forced to bury themselves in the hardest stuff in the multiverse to avoid sniper fire.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by buutenks » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:24 am

I really liked this episode, was really great. Expected it to be boring, but Roshi was very entertaining.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:28 am

This episode pretty much confirmed what I have been thinking about Dragon Ball Super for a while. It is remembering me that Dragon Ball isn't all about going straightforward against your opponent and beating power with power. Despite the science-fiction involved and the ridiculous amount of power of its characters, it is trying to teach people that no matter how tough life is, you can beat it by joining other people (righteous people please), by thinking about a way to get around it, using your talents and you can surpass your own limits too!

I loved this episode not only because Roshi (Mestre Kame as I know him) was as cool as he could be, but because what he represents to me. Even as old as he is, he did so well that even the most important being in his universe, which ironically is a natural manifestation of power, showed respect for him. This is something I didn't get to see in the Dragon Ball Z series. While I agree nostalgia can influence my own judgement, I admit the DBZ part of the story lost some of this little charm. People who had grown up watching DBZ rarely apreciate it.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:38 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:This episode pretty much confirmed what I have been thinking about Dragon Ball Super for a while. It is remembering me that Dragon Ball isn't all about going straightforward against your opponent and beating power with power. Despite the science-fiction involved and the ridiculous amount of power of its characters, it is trying to teach people that no matter how tough life is, you can beat it by joining other people (righteous people please), by thinking about a way to get around it, using your talents and you can surpass your own limits too!

I loved this episode not only because Roshi (Mestre Kame as I know him) was as cool as he could be, but because what he represents to me. Even as old as he is, he did so well that even the most important being in his universe, which ironically is a natural manifestation of power, showed respect for him. This is something I didn't get to see in the Dragon Ball Z series. While I agree nostalgia can influence my own judgement, I admit the DBZ part of the story lost some of this little charm. People who had grown up watching DBZ rarely apreciate it.
I really appreciated this too. Roshi's right that Goku and friends operate on a 'punch it hard, and if that doesn't work, punch it harder!' mindset. Just look when they fight an immortal foe like Garlic Jr. or Zamasu. But to be entirely fair the villains work the same way with a few small exceptions like Babidi. It felt like the writers were using Roshi to lampshade some common or overused Dragon Ball tropes.

My favorite part was seeing how much Roshi, Goku, and Krillin all still care for each other and that Roshi was inspired by his boys to better himself.

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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by lord turbo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:11 pm

Jigurashi wrote:More like Goku and Ganos barely fought each other and when they did, Base Goku had the advantage on Ganos who was on the defensive. The same Base Goku that one-shotted Roshi in episode 89 and the same Base Goku that stalemated a post-88 Base Gohan. Kuririn pressured Base Goku enough to go SSJ, something Roshi failed to do. Roshi isn't close to Base Goku's level at all.
To be fair, the same base Goku kept up and was knocked out of bounds by a stronger slim Buu, when caught off guard. Kuririn fought the same base Goku, but unlike Buu was able to force him back with generic ki blasts forcing Goku to turn SSJ to prevent himself from getting ringed out and it was only mentioned the gap in power was too big for Kuririn when Goku turned SSJB. Meanwhile, Piccolo barely made the same base Goku sweat when he stopped his ridiculously long charged ki blast with his barehands, didn't even budge him towards out of bounds. Roshi fought on par with the same base Goku with him calling Roshi's power incredible mentioning his fists are tingling with excitement and how he wished he could fight with Roshi longer.

Goku only One-shotted Roshi when he had his guard down and was distracted. The same Goku has been overwhelmed, harmed, or one-shotted by beings much weaker than himself when caught off guard. All in all, I would put Kuririn as the strongest, followed closely by Roshi who would be stronger than Piccolo who's either stronger than or equal to Tien so faf.
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Re: Super Episode 105 (27 August 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:36 pm

getting mad that Caulifla got SSJ and SSJ2 easily is like getting mad that someone that can lift 300 can easily master 350 when it took years for another person that started out much weaker than you were.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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