Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by emperior » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:16 am

Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, before they started firing their blasts? It was lame, when have DB characters ever run like that? I would have preferred if they ran like Goku and Krillin used to as kids, when they trained under Muten Roshi. It's nitpicking, but I don't care if C-18 and C-17 do it but if Goku and Vegeta do it I get annoyed.

It lasts for a second, but was that necessary?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Michsi » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:21 am

emperior wrote:Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, .
I did too, and it annoyed me. I can't help but think they're using it as just another way of simplifying the animation. But it just doesn't look good :(

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by sokkah abdelkader » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:32 am

Am i the only one who saw Masahiro Shimanuki animations in this episode ?

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Gig » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:36 am

emperior wrote:Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, before they started firing their blasts? It was lame, when have DB characters ever run like that? I would have preferred if they ran like Goku and Krillin used to as kids, when they trained under Muten Roshi. It's nitpicking, but I don't care if C-18 and C-17 do it but if Goku and Vegeta do it I get annoyed.

It lasts for a second, but was that necessary?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I don't remember, how did Goku and Krilin ran as kids?

About the running position, I can guess that's something relatively common in Japan animation, at least in Toei animation, as I can recall at least the Gold Saints in Saint Seya Soul of Gold running like that.

By the way, in DBZ and later, rarely characters run, as usually they fly... I don't remember, how did Dr Gero ran when he was hiding his presence when escaping?

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by emperior » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:45 am

Gig wrote:
emperior wrote:Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, before they started firing their blasts? It was lame, when have DB characters ever run like that? I would have preferred if they ran like Goku and Krillin used to as kids, when they trained under Muten Roshi. It's nitpicking, but I don't care if C-18 and C-17 do it but if Goku and Vegeta do it I get annoyed.

It lasts for a second, but was that necessary?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I don't remember, how did Goku and Krilin ran as kids?

About the running position, I can guess that's something relatively common in Japan animation, at least in Toei animation, as I can recall at least the Gold Saints in Saint Seya Soul of Gold running like that.

By the way, in DBZ and later, rarely characters run, as usually they fly... I don't remember, how did Dr Gero ran when he was hiding his presence when escaping?
They didn't always run like this, it's basically the Arale run: Image
You can find some video online, I remember then running like this when Krillin stole Goku the stone Muten Roshi threw, and it must have happened other times.
By the way, in Episode 106's case, they could have had Goku and Vegeta running while preparino their Kamehameha and Galick Gun respectively, as they did later in the same scene. That would have been better than that Naruto run.
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:06 am

sokkah abdelkader wrote:Am i the only one who saw Masahiro Shimanuki animations in this episode ?
No. Everyone could tell that Shimanuki had very strong presence in the episode from just watching 10 seconds of footage from the episode

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Pluto » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:24 am

emperior wrote:Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, before they started firing their blasts? It was lame, when have DB characters ever run like that? I would have preferred if they ran like Goku and Krillin used to as kids, when they trained under Muten Roshi. It's nitpicking, but I don't care if C-18 and C-17 do it but if Goku and Vegeta do it I get annoyed.

It lasts for a second, but was that necessary?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Gig » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:34 am

emperior wrote:They didn't always run like this, it's basically the Arale run: Image
With their arms open more "laterally" than "backwards", right?

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by emperior » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:30 am

Gig wrote:
emperior wrote:They didn't always run like this, it's basically the Arale run: Image
With their arms open more "laterally" than "backwards", right?
Yeah, exactly that. It's not the optimal way to run obviously, but if their goal is to save animation then they might as well do a little throwback to DB instead than copying Naruto.
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Torturephile » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:29 am

Their arms reminded me of Dr. Eggman's when he runs on old Sonic games. I think the few times I've seen characters running in Z, they did the way a normal person would in real life. A good scene involving running that you can look up online is when SSJ Goku runs in Freeza's spaceship before Namek explodes.
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by kinisking » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:04 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
kinisking wrote:Toei really tries hard to push the student teacher relationship between Piccolo and Gohan but they end up making both of them look bad. Gohan gets dumbed down when he's with piccolo, and Piccolo ends up becoming nothing more than a meat shield or hypeman.
I don't see how they made Piccolo look bad here, he was anything but. Gohan's is just a faux fighter so it makes sense he would be portrayed like a dumb child needing hand holding, I mean that is the only reason he beat Cell afterall.
Gohan didn't need any hand holding during the rest of this arc but suddenly he questions even the simplest of things ? It's obvious that they want to emphasize the student teacher relationship but in turn they made Gohan look much stupider than usual.
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:17 pm

emperior wrote:Am I the only one who hated how Vegeta and Goku were running like Naruto characters for a moment, before they started firing their blasts? It was lame, when have DB characters ever run like that? I would have preferred if they ran like Goku and Krillin used to as kids, when they trained under Muten Roshi. It's nitpicking, but I don't care if C-18 and C-17 do it but if Goku and Vegeta do it I get annoyed.

It lasts for a second, but was that necessary?
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Gohan and Goten did it in the Buu saga in that scene where they were running back to the house. Didn't Imperfect Cell also run like that?

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:47 pm

kinisking wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
kinisking wrote:Toei really tries hard to push the student teacher relationship between Piccolo and Gohan but they end up making both of them look bad. Gohan gets dumbed down when he's with piccolo, and Piccolo ends up becoming nothing more than a meat shield or hypeman.
I don't see how they made Piccolo look bad here, he was anything but. Gohan's is just a faux fighter so it makes sense he would be portrayed like a dumb child needing hand holding, I mean that is the only reason he beat Cell afterall.
Gohan didn't need any hand holding during the rest of this arc but suddenly he questions even the simplest of things ? It's obvious that they want to emphasize the student teacher relationship but in turn they made Gohan look much stupider than usual.
It's the same thing with writing the pure Saiyans the way they do. Just something that is inescapable. Gohan had probably been the most competent he ever had like you said until this point.

I do agree with others when they say Piccolo and Gohan need separating. Was hoping it would happen at the end. Piccolo would look good either way but this is more for Gohan's sake. I wanna like Gohan but they ain't doing a good job in making me.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:26 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Tombstone1988 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I didn't really it as much of an issue. Goku and Vegeta still needed to keep their distance as that sniper could do some serious harm. So instead of going up close to possibly land a punch on that blob guy and/or severely injure themselves in the process, they improvised and just chucked giant rocks at them. I actually liked that thinking outside of the box from them.
You are correct in that the sniper duo could do serious harm, but there are two holes in this line of thinking. First, Goku and Vegeta are fast; in fact, two episodes ago Goku kept pace with Dyspo, who was explicitly stated to be faster than the speed of light. If Goku can keep pace with a character of that speed, I'm sure he and Vegeta could rush Prum before he could do anything. Second, going back to episode 104 again, Goku was shown to be good at predicting patterns. Even if Prum could reflect a blast faster than Goku and Vegeta can move, they should be able to easily identify its trajectory and avoid it.

Honestly though, this whole thing is irrelevant. In my opinion, the underlying problem isn't really even with how Goku and Vegeta dealt with Prum. The problem is why Goku and Vegeta were chosen to be in this episode to begin with. As you said earlier in this thread, this episode has an unnatural flow to it. Part of that (to me, anyway) is tossing Goku and Vegeta into the second half of the episode when Gohan, Piccolo and Tien were the focus during the first half.
Goku had a lot of trouble keeping up with Dyspo once Dyspo went into full speed blitz mode. As a matter of fact, once Dyspo cranked up the speed, he was kicking Goku's ass and was moving so fast that Goku couldn't even use his Instant Transmission. The only time that Goku managed to catch Dyspo off-guard was when Goku interchanged from SSJG to SSJB to maximize his speed and power. Goku himself comments that Dyspo's speed is impressive but his movements were too linear making it easy for Dyspo to be caught out. As Hit would later prove. Goku, without doing the old SSJG-SSJB switcheroo, is not as fast as faster than the speed of light. And Goku most likely didn't want to use the SSJG-SSJB switcheroo technique because he wanted to save energy so that he can fight stronger opponents (i.e. Jiren, Toppo, and anyone else he hasn't faced yet).

But I do think the episode could have used a bit less Goku and Vegeta.
I will definitely agree to that. And their insertion into the plot of this episode certainly felt the most out-of-left-field than any other occasion in this tournament so far and really did disrupt the flow of the narrative. I still thought the episode was fine and I think it will more tolerable when I binge watch the arc after it's over.
Neither of these two should have been in the episode at all. With that said, they were the only interesting part of the episode imo.
kinisking wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
kinisking wrote:Toei really tries hard to push the student teacher relationship between Piccolo and Gohan but they end up making both of them look bad. Gohan gets dumbed down when he's with piccolo, and Piccolo ends up becoming nothing more than a meat shield or hypeman.
I don't see how they made Piccolo look bad here, he was anything but. Gohan's is just a faux fighter so it makes sense he would be portrayed like a dumb child needing hand holding, I mean that is the only reason he beat Cell afterall.
Gohan didn't need any hand holding during the rest of this arc but suddenly he questions even the simplest of things ? It's obvious that they want to emphasize the student teacher relationship but in turn they made Gohan look much stupider than usual.
It's a bad unfortunate habit with having Piccolo needing to be there to hold Gohan's hand when that shouldn't be the case anymore. At this point, Gohan and Piccolo only hinder each other's characters from being near one another. Like Gohan is one of the only 3 U7 fighters I have any interest in this saga, but him being stuck to Piccolo just brings his character down (and vice versa). It makes me lose interest in the character. I already have little to no interest left in Piccolo on account of him being essentially Gohan's satellite character this saga.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Asura » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:24 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
Asura wrote:
Torturephile wrote: I've seen worse. I couldn't find the one ugly shot of Black that I wanted to.
Yeah the key word there was "shot". Goku & Vegeta looked like this the entire episode.

I also fail to see anything wrong with how any of those look except for perhaps SSJ Goku's face being too small, and definitely that Vegeta looks off model because it's from Super.
The style who showed was only used in the second half.

I feel like your cherry picking slightly, because most of the time the style was decently polished and was completely serviceable.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Goku and Vegeta still look terrible in those, although the first and fourth aren't bad but they are the exceptions from how they were normally drawn this episode, not the majority. Especially that third picture, my god that looks absolutely atrocious. In fact that was the exact shot that I saw during the episode that made me think "Wow, it literally looks like they came out of a moe anime or something". Seriously, Goku and Vegeta do not look like that. That artist should be working on another anime because it's clear he can not draw in the Dragon Ball style whatsoever.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:31 pm

Asura wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Asura wrote:
Yeah the key word there was "shot". Goku & Vegeta looked like this the entire episode.

I also fail to see anything wrong with how any of those look except for perhaps SSJ Goku's face being too small, and definitely that Vegeta looks off model because it's from Super.
The style who showed was only used in the second half.

I feel like your cherry picking slightly, because most of the time the style was decently polished and was completely serviceable.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Goku and Vegeta still look terrible in those, although the first and fourth aren't bad but they are the exceptions from how they were normally drawn this episode, not the majority. Especially that third picture, my god that looks absolutely atrocious. In fact that was the exact shot that I saw during the episode that made me think "Wow, it literally looks like they came out of a moe anime or something". Seriously, Goku and Vegeta do not look like that. That artist should be working on another anime because it's clear he can not draw in the Dragon Ball style whatsoever.
IMO There is nothing wrong with those shots shown. A few bits of the episode were weird as always but those are well drawn shots even if they may be a TINY bit off model.
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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by KameNinja45 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:02 pm

Asura wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Asura wrote:
Yeah the key word there was "shot". Goku & Vegeta looked like this the entire episode.

I also fail to see anything wrong with how any of those look except for perhaps SSJ Goku's face being too small, and definitely that Vegeta looks off model because it's from Super.
The style who showed was only used in the second half.

I feel like your cherry picking slightly, because most of the time the style was decently polished and was completely serviceable.
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Goku and Vegeta still look terrible in those, although the first and fourth aren't bad but they are the exceptions from how they were normally drawn this episode, not the majority. Especially that third picture, my god that looks absolutely atrocious. In fact that was the exact shot that I saw during the episode that made me think "Wow, it literally looks like they came out of a moe anime or something". Seriously, Goku and Vegeta do not look like that. That artist should be working on another anime because it's clear he can not draw in the Dragon Ball style whatsoever.
Mhm. Never mind the fact that the person who made those shots supervised the incredible episode 66, gave us the terrific beam struggle in episode 81, and produced some amazing shots in episode 90 and 98.
Never mind the fact that he's also produced some incredible artwork in DBZ. He made the Kamehameha vs. Galick Gun beam struggle. Out of all the animators on Super, he's one of the best when it comes to producing Z-esque artwork.
Do you really expect one of Super's strongest to make every shot in an almost completely inconsequential episode perfect, when he has much more important episodes to dedicate his time to?
And the shots don't even look that bad, calm down. I find some of them to be pretty appealing.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Asura » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:32 pm

KameNinja45 wrote:Mhm. Never mind the fact that the person who made those shots supervised the incredible episode 66, gave us the terrific beam struggle in episode 81, and produced some amazing shots in episode 90 and 98.
Never mind the fact that he's also produced some incredible artwork in DBZ. He made the Kamehameha vs. Galick Gun beam struggle. Out of all the animators on Super, he's one of the best when it comes to producing Z-esque artwork.
Do you really expect one of Super's strongest to make every shot in an almost completely inconsequential episode perfect, when he has much more important episodes to dedicate his time to?
And the shots don't even look that bad, calm down. I find some of them to be pretty appealing.
I could care less what he's done in the past. I don't know why people always use that as an excuse. Same thing with "it's just the way he draws bro deal with it" or "it's just the way he animates bro deal with it" The fact that you think he's the best when it comes to producing Z-esque artwork is the most laughable thing I've heard all week given you're relying on this picture as a basis for that argument.

Tell me, what part of this picture looks ANYTHING like the two pictures below it? Maybe I'm the one who's blind but I don't see how this is Z-esque in the slightest. Not even remotely close.

[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]

It just does not match the character designs of Z or Super at all. This guy can supervise and do whatever he wants to do but clearly he does not know how to draw these characters on model as referenced not only in this episode but in some of the previous episodes he's done work for. I'm namely getting flashbacks to the U6 tourney with Vegeta, I forget which episode or fight it was but I remember even then watching it and saying to myself wow, this looks really bad am I even watching the same show? His art style is real distinctive and easy to tell apart from the others because it looks literally nothing like the others. It does not look like Z, it does not look like Super, it just looks like it belongs in a completely different anime.

For some reason I feel like some of you are attacking me for suggesting that the art itself is "technically" bad - as in he's an artist who doesn't know how to draw. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that this art style does not mesh well. It does not look like Z, it does not look like Super, it just looks like the dude completely went in his own direction, said fuck the character reference designs I'm just going to do whatever I want and it certainly shows given how it does not look like it belongs in the show.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by KameNinja45 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:41 pm

Asura wrote:
KameNinja45 wrote:Mhm. Never mind the fact that the person who made those shots supervised the incredible episode 66, gave us the terrific beam struggle in episode 81, and produced some amazing shots in episode 90 and 98.
Never mind the fact that he's also produced some incredible artwork in DBZ. He made the Kamehameha vs. Galick Gun beam struggle. Out of all the animators on Super, he's one of the best when it comes to producing Z-esque artwork.
Do you really expect one of Super's strongest to make every shot in an almost completely inconsequential episode perfect, when he has much more important episodes to dedicate his time to?
And the shots don't even look that bad, calm down. I find some of them to be pretty appealing.
I could care less what he's done in the past. I don't know why people always use that as an excuse. Same thing with "it's just the way he draws bro deal with it" or "it's just the way he animates bro deal with it" The fact that you think he's the best when it comes to producing Z-esque artwork is the most laughable thing I've heard all week given you're relying on this picture as a basis for that argument.

Tell me, what part of this picture looks ANYTHING like the two pictures below it? Maybe I'm the one who's blind but I don't see how this is Z-esque in the slightest. Not even remotely close.

[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]

It just does not match the character designs of Z or Super at all. This guy can supervise and do whatever he wants to do but clearly he does not know how to draw these characters on model as referenced not only in this episode but in some of the previous episodes he's done work for. I'm namely getting flashbacks to the U6 tourney with Vegeta, I forget which episode or fight it was but I remember even then watching it and saying to myself wow, this looks really bad am I even watching the same show? His art style is real distinctive and easy to tell apart from the others because it looks literally nothing like the others. It does not look like Z, it does not look like Super, it just looks like it belongs in a completely different anime.

For some reason I feel like some of you are attacking me for suggesting that the art itself is "technically" bad - as in he's an artist who doesn't know how to draw. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that this art style does not mesh well. It does not look like Z, it does not look like Super, it just looks like the dude completely went in his own direction, said fuck the character reference designs I'm just going to do whatever I want and it certainly shows given how it does not look like it belongs in the show.
There is no distinct look to Dragon Ball. Look at the two pictures of Z that you posted, they don't look anything like each other. Super doesn't have a look either, it varies heavily depending on the episode.
For example, look at all the different ways in which the animators draw Goku.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Losing Shimanuki, the artist we're talking about, would be a major loss to the show. I personally don't see how the shots you posted are as horrendous as you claim they are, as I quite like them. You might not think his artwork fits with Dragon Ball, and that's fine, but plenty of people do.

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Re: Super Episode 106 (3 September 2017)

Post by Shi_Neko13 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:26 pm

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