Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by LightBing » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:53 pm

I thought this was a disappointing episode, everything about it was contrived.

Like some of the worst episodes of this tournament, this could all be solved if Freeza and Gohan respectively just powered up and finger-flicked their opponents like they are capable of.

At least with Freeza I might buy that him leading out Frost was nothing more than him being sadistic, instead of straight up defeat him.

This struggle wasn't well written and didn't have any build up to carry it. I hope the next episode with Jiren and Ribrianne returns to the level of the other episodes.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Gig » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:00 pm

Not exactly a bad episode, although in the first part very little happened.

I do wonder why writers are making Gohan performing so bad during the tournament. I do not pretend him to be able to beat Golden Frieza after about half day of training... but however not even to have him always need someone to save him.

If one thinks about it, Frieza may have one-shotted Frost out-of-bonds as soon as he showed up... Probably tricking him instead was part of him having fun.

I'm one of those who would have liked a brief explanation about Yaddrat in U2.

About NEP: I wonder how will Goku find the time to form Genkidama against Jiren... maybe Ribrianne will stall him? However I don't think that will be very effective: there are not many lifeforms and stars (to absorb energy from) in the World of Void! We will see...
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:00 pm

I hope the manga has Gohan actually fight a worthwhile battle, because he's been looking like a scrub in the anime ToP. He did good against the kickboxer dude but other than that he does stupidly long tactics or just needs to be constantly rescued.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:04 pm

I think Jiren is going to finger smash Ribrianne in the next episode, leading to the Goku battle.

Edit: I just realized how dirty this sounded. I meant like flick her away.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:08 pm

nato25 wrote:
CJStriker_CBR wrote:
nato25 wrote:
It's just getting too much now. Anyone count how many times she said love this episode, at one point she was literally just saying it over and over again. I get that most of these Tournament of Power only characters are gonna be one dimensional but she is somehow less than that.

Also dissapointed that Toppo and his gang have all gone back to just saying Justice for no reason, basically erasing any cool impact that speech had where he said there is no justice just survival. They should have all never mentioned Justice again from that point on outside of attack names.
Really I don't Know............As Many times as they Want cause that is what they Believe In, One for Love, One for Justice cause they are Homaging their Gears and Hero styles!? :think:

Toppo can say justice all day but still get down to being Serious while still holding honor, an ideal I am glad they still are holding high so far. We have enough heroes going bad and villains in media, I don't need to see the Defenders of U11 going all evil just to survive. You can get serious and still stick to your values and I am proud that Toei is still on that.

Same with Ribrianne and Love, if that is the Ideal of what is one-dimensional.......Then Give me MORE of that cause Ribrianne has been one of the Few breaths of fresh air in this predictable franshice in for so long! The road for any characters starts at One-Dimension in some views, that leads then the 3D Character and form their and hear me out on this Crazy idea............Give them Several Dozen upon Dozen Episodes to flesh out who they are.....Crazy Huh!? :o ;)

Seriously, Ribrianne has had what 2 1/2 episodes and we are already ready to throw her under the bus cause she says love as her theme like the Pride Troopers say Justice?! Well the Reality of the truth is.........That is why Fans Like me love the characters! They stick to their principles and beliefs and focus their fighting styles around those ideals, just like any superhero. It is pretty refreshing for fans like me who get tired of the same old hat that Dragon Ball has had with characters just about being stronger for stronger sakes, characters with ideals and they fight for them is refreshing.

I Gave Goku, Vegita, Gohan, Piccolo, Majin Buu and Many others Hundreds and I mean Hundreds of Episodes to define themselves. Characters like Toppo and Ribrianne have had barley a few, some not even a handful yet. If was want to be fair like we where to the original others, we give them time to develop more before we throw them under the bus cause they don't fit our personal narrative with how a pure dragon ball character should look.

I know this all sounds crazy to give New Characters actual time to develop before we Judge, Jury and Send them backing, but I think if it worked for that Goku guy and Vegita dude, it just might work here! :mrgreen:

An even if that does not work for you..........Really Who then cares?! :yawn:

Like who You like and I will like Who I Like, their is Room for all of them in the Multiverse now for them all, let fans like who they want and stick to yours if it does come to that, but like fans ask me all the time, keep an open mind. ;)
Nice to see a well thought out differing opinion. I dont hate ribrianne but I feel her character has really devolved, peaking in this episode. Her debut was pretty cool and I appreciated the parody where 17 shot them.

I guess I feel theres just no substance behind the words they say. Ribrianne keeps saying love but that doesnt seem to mean anything to me. Why isnt she fighting right alongside her friends that she loves then, or actually saying what she loves. Even if she said she loves her universe or loves love that would be better. She literally just says love and that dialogue is coming across as shallow and meaningless.

Its almost the exact same with Toppo, luckily they at least had that one fight against that random monster to demonstrate they fight to protect their peace and civilians.

And obviously i cant tell this but I think its very unlikely we will see ribrianne again after this tournament, even if the whole erasure thing is a bluff. She will die a one dimensional character.

I like the idea of almost all the characters they've introduced, i just feel the writing staff could do more with them. If you're happy with what we've e got then more power to you man, but I think those that are more critical of the media we watch and a show we love have grounds for criticism here. Guess thats the beauty of the forum (no universe 2 pun intended)
Well Indeed I appreciated your Post Nato25 and the ideal of not only more power to my view of Ribrianne but also that we do have a different yet respected Differences of Opinion on the matter. That is honestly what I have seen for a longtime in my life when debating Comic Books, Movies, TV Shows, Story Concepts on my other Forums in the past as well. It is an long, strange and yet interesting road of debate I had has in my life and how I have seen it evolve has been impressive to say the least, never saw Myself HERE talking about Super 6 months ago but how quickly things change, that is the Unique "BEAUTY" in Life. ;)

I honestly appreciated a more thought out post like this one over the GoldFish level of memory and non-care I get from some dislikers on YouTube who never seen a comment longer then a sentence or even have a memory of events of past episodes. :problem:

This is why I like forums more, they are a better humb of In-Depth Debate and Conversation.

Now of Course I see Ribrianne Completely 180 here which is obviously a given, I but I just don't see it threw the eyes of fandom, but what I have seen from Toei Towards how serious they seem to be giving her spotlight both here and in marketing. I think again this is barely the starting point, the overly Exciting Intro of Ribrianne, her Universe 2 and other Characters like Toppo. I never have felt this is all they are going to be, just the basics you are going to get in the heat of the battle with more layers to their Onion to come in the future.

I also want to know why she is not with her teammates.......BUTTTTTT I Also like to know why Gohan is all the sudden not with Piccolo, or why the Pride Troopers keep going from teamwork to then soloing again, or why some characters with major roles in this like Frieza or 17 and others simple VANISH with no trace towards what they have been up to the last few episode?! :crazy: :eh: :crazy:

Toei has a problem flowing all they characters reasoning well and so I consider it to be equal in question all and all their reasoning behind them.

I greatly feel Ribranne/Brianne has a Major Future in Dragon Ball! We will be seeing more of her and her Universe 2 after all this is done, it is in the cool-down post arc of the ToP and the next arcs that they will have the time to Flesh her more out beyond the simple ideals of over the top battle. I am willing to give Toei Time, Years in fact to flesh Ribrianne out and I looking forward to whatever levels and amount they give us going Forward. I gave ALL the others of Universe 7 DECADES to flesh out for me, I will be honored to do the same, more so infact for Ribrianne/Brianne and being the Gentleman Fan I am of hers, it will be an honor to do so and Promote her for a Longtime to come.

It is going to be a 2 way street, both Criticism and Supporting, but both are needed in make a character better, I always believed in that. So I look forward to more of this coming down the Line.

Like Jimeze Said, "Hope Shall Never Die", this ideal is one I live by, see you in the Future Fields of Debate Nato25! ;) :thumbup:


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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:13 pm

Frieza had a good spotlight episode. Beerus was starting to be apprehensive of him with his changing sides; he has proven himself to be a great addition to the Tournament.

I'm getting tired of Brianne though, she needs to step up and show something more.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Lord Frieza » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:18 pm

Tombstone1988 wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:Ok as I see it, Frost and Frieza met, talked, Frieza suggested the alliance and Frost showed intreast. Frieza being the bastard he is scaling up Frost's worth and setting up the connection.

However while their is suggested intreast in a team up, the two were never official working together. Since they never meet until 108, we can assume the pair have not spoken since then. Frost has been doing his sneaky hit and run tactic while Frieza has been mainly watching the other fighters and stepping in now and then when easy prey presents itself.

During this time, Frieza has observed Frost and come to the conclusion that Frost is not actuallyworth teaming up with at all. This is possible why he so quickly turns on Frost when they next met.

Now here's the thing, Frost is the one who walks up to Frieza acting all chummy in 108. Frieza sees this and haveing dicided Frost is an amateur already, play along with Frost's assumptions acting as if they were bedfellows all along.

Now haveing seen Frost's vanishing act and being a sadistic git at heart, Frieza comes up with a nasty plan to insure he can ring out Frost for sure and make him look like a fool into the bargain.

That how I see this whole thing anyway.
I highlighted the bit I want to mainly focus on here. See, I could actually buy into this idea you presented IF the show had actually shown this to us. The problem is they don't. We don't see a scene in episode 107 where Freeza is silently observing Frost's scheme against Vegeta. This episode (108) also occurs immediately after the events of episode 107, so there isn't any time for anything to be happening in between the two. Talking specifically about Frost, we jump from Frost trying to take out members of Universe 7 straight to Frost kissing up to Freeza.

I like to equate arcs to points on a graph, with point A being the start and the last point being the end. Frost's arc had a point A (forming an alliance with Freeza), a point B (attacking Universe 7 in order to gain a pardon), but skipped points C and D in order to go to point E (Freeza betrays him and eliminates him). Those missing points are essentially the reasons people are dissatisfied with how events with Frost played out this episode. If they had shown those first and then we went to the last point of the betrayal, this wouldn't be the case (or at least not as much).
I agree to a point here as en just watching Frost last week would make it feel a bit more cohesive. However on the flip side I cannot recall Frieza haveing any notice screen time after he ringed out U10s captain a while back. I'd also like to point out that apparently Frieza and Vegeta had had some sort of fight with that guy off screen. Since the we have not seen hide nor tail of him and when he dose show up to fight Jimeze he drops out of nowhere. So the senario I discribe dose have a realistic timeframe in which it can occur in.

In fact I would say that if you did show Frieza outright dislike Frost befor the betrayal it looses some of its impact for those expecting things to play out differently. But again they could have had Frieza walk of thinking about why he betrayed Frost. But I feel that If they did such a thing it gives to much of Frieza away. Part of what did work I feel is that from beginning to end here we still have no idea what Freeza's bigger game is.

So I personally thing that this is case we're Supers don't tell attitude was used well.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:30 pm

Ugh, I just realized that even though this tournament is now more than 10 episodes in, only 19 minutes have passed in-universe, which means that the thing's not even halfway done yet. Don't tell me this tournament is going to go on for another 10+ episodes...

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by kidhero1000 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:33 pm

Image


That right there makes this episode a 10/10 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
He devolved into saying only one word. Time to hit the ol' cosmic trail.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm

kidhero1000 wrote:Image


That right there makes this episode a 10/10 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
While I have nothing against Cabba and Grown to Like the Character more..........Just WOW That was a "BEAUTY" ;) of a "JUSTICE" ;) RIGHT HOOK Toppo Has!!! :mrgreen:

Also, I will NEVER Get Tire of Toppo putting a-little JUSTICE in ALL of his Attacks, Keep those Clobbering Time Quotes a-coming Mustache Master! ;) :thumbup: :mrgreen:
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by precita » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:17 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Ugh, I just realized that even though this tournament is now more than 10 episodes in, only 19 minutes have passed in-universe, which means that the thing's not even halfway done yet. Don't tell me this tournament is going to go on for another 10+ episodes...
10 episodes? I expect the tournament to go on another 20 episodes at the least.

We still have 31 fighters left. Then whatever the final fights are, they are bound to go on at least 2-3 episodes or more.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Kagari » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:31 pm

OLKv3 wrote:I hope the manga has Gohan actually fight a worthwhile battle, because he's been looking like a scrub in the anime ToP. He did good against the kickboxer dude but other than that he does stupidly long tactics or just needs to be constantly rescued.
To be fair he's only been in two other episodes since his fight with Obuni.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:03 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:I agree to a point here as en just watching Frost last week would make it feel a bit more cohesive. However on the flip side I cannot recall Frieza haveing any notice screen time after he ringed out U10s captain a while back. I'd also like to point out that apparently Frieza and Vegeta had had some sort of fight with that guy off screen. Since the we have not seen hide nor tail of him and when he dose show up to fight Jimeze he drops out of nowhere. So the senario I discribe dose have a realistic timeframe in which it can occur in.

In fact I would say that if you did show Frieza outright dislike Frost befor the betrayal it looses some of its impact for those expecting things to play out differently. But again they could have had Frieza walk of thinking about why he betrayed Frost. But I feel that If they did such a thing it gives to much of Frieza away. Part of what did work I feel is that from beginning to end here we still have no idea what Freeza's bigger game is.

So I personally thing that this is case we're Supers don't tell attitude was used well.
That's fair. I personally disagree, but I can see and respect your reasoning here.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:33 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Ugh, I just realized that even though this tournament is now more than 10 episodes in, only 19 minutes have passed in-universe, which means that the thing's not even halfway done yet. Don't tell me this tournament is going to go on for another 10+ episodes...
Considering ED's are around 11-12 episodes and we are getting a new one in 109, I assume this saga will go to at least around episodes 120-121.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:38 pm

JazzMazz wrote:I don't think this is the episode to say that Ribrianne had a impressive showing. She was literally beating on base Goku, something that even the lowest of the low tier fighters have been capable of doing in this tournament.

I could totally get behind the fact that she is powerful, her showings against Vegeta and 17 more than prove that, but this episode had a very weak showing on her part.
I think it must be some sort of crazy gag power, like with Arale, that makes her randomy "powerful" when the script calls for it. Between bouts of drawing heart shapes and talking about love, Ribrianne doesn't really seem to be doing anything but wasting time.

Then again, she's hardly the only one with inconsistent power scaling. So it's not like she's a special case in that regard.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:05 pm

Li'l Lemmy wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I don't think this is the episode to say that Ribrianne had a impressive showing. She was literally beating on base Goku, something that even the lowest of the low tier fighters have been capable of doing in this tournament.

I could totally get behind the fact that she is powerful, her showings against Vegeta and 17 more than prove that, but this episode had a very weak showing on her part.
I think it must be some sort of crazy gag power, like with Arale, that makes her randomy "powerful" when the script calls for it. Between bouts of drawing heart shapes and talking about love, Ribrianne doesn't really seem to be doing anything but wasting time.

Then again, she's hardly the only one with inconsistent power scaling. So it's not like she's a special case in that regard.
The only reason that I can think of they went lower not just for Ribrianne but for Goku was to prolong the use of Higher powerlevels to the special and beyond by Toei. Which seems desperately lazy writing considering we should be at the higher levels by now not just base fights anymore to measure opponents or warm-ups, we pass that point already.

Goku is a given for power and Ribrianne already showed herself at higher levels, but has yet to be fully tested, but still those levels she has fought it has been impressive. Toei wants to prolong that fight like some kind of wrestling match we know the fighters can go higher on yet they do the dance to make it go longer.

Best beat again is that they where testing each other, it was a very good fight, but one that needed to show them much higher cause they both can do that!


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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:08 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:Well that was a bit anti-climactic ending for Frost. Wanted to see more of him and Freeza together, but getting straight on erased without warning was savage!
I have this same impression. Daishinkan could have warned him before he launched the blast too.
Hit warned him in the recruitment episode that he'd be destroyed if he cheated.
I didn’t remember that. Either way, the “nobody” adjective served him well. :lol: At least he helped Freeza to gain a bit of comfort with his team. He might be scheming something.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by HybridSaiyan » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:54 pm

Why Is the fighting soooo boring to watch?
If there was actual some decent effort put into the choreography, the episodes wouldn't be as bad since the content has been thrilling so far.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:55 pm

Whatever wrote:
Ziegander wrote:This was a good episode in general but another bad episode among a string of bad episodes for Gohan. He's being written as pathetic and stupid when in the past he's been neither of those things. When Gohan fought Frieza he was enraged and on point striking with overwhelming force (or at least he hoped). When Gohan fought Cell he dicked around some but for the most part was cold fury and focus. When Gohan fought Buu he was a little arrogant, but at least his fighting skills were way beyond what we're seeing here.

I can buy Gohan having some trouble versus Jimeze. If we posit that Jimeze is a SSJ or even SSJ2 level fighter with perfected instant transmission, and Jimeze is shown as utilizing his instant transmission with much greater fluidity, finesse, and skill than Goku ever does, then I can see how, even though Gohan knows about instant transmission, Gohan might have some trouble. But Gohan should still win his fight without getting beat up so badly. He shouldn't need help from anyone, least of all Frieza.

Frieza, on the other hand, has never been on the receiving end of instant transmission. He shouldn't have any experience with the technique and he shouldn't be able to counter it so effortlessly. The only way I see it making sense is if Final Form Frieza (essentially his new base form) is just that much faster than base Gohan. It's really hard to tell where power levels are at in Super, it's becoming frustratingly so, but I suppose that's not hard to imagine. "Ultimate" Gohan just makes everything all the more confusing, and the fact that he doesn't use his Super Saiyan forms anymore. His base form could very well be quite weak compared to, say, Vegeta or Android 18 even. The fact that he doesn't use his full power all the time is also incredibly perplexing.

Frieza counter-betraying Frost was great. The short little scuffle between Gohan and Frieza was nice, though I do wish Gohan had gotten a bit more shine, it ended up being a mock battle, so it's hard to draw any actual conclusions. All of the intrigue and in-universe speculation around Frieza was great. I guess the one thing I didn't like was where it left me wondering, again, actually how strong is Gohan these days? And are they going to continue to write him as dumb and sad?

Convoluted power levels discussion spoilered here:
[spoiler]Frieza was around 120 million on namek, his "final form" might now be fifty times that by now, who knows? Gohan's base form when he fought Perfect Cell was around 80 million and let's say he got weaker by the time he unlocked his "mystic" power. So, Gohan's "mystic base" at the time of Majin Buu might have been 70 million and his power could go as high as, well, stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. If we concede that SSJ2 Gotenks was stronger than SSJ3 Goku at the time, and Ultimate Gohan is even stronger than 4 times that, phew, Gohan's Ultimate potential in the Buu saga was pretty strong. SSJ3 Goku was at minimum 32 billion. I'd assume SSJ3 Gotenks is, again, at minimum 64 billion. That makes Ultimate Gohan easily 65 billion and probably closer to 120 billion. On the upper end that makes his Buu saga power level, which, for all intents and purposes ought to reflect his current Super power as well, 1,000 times as strong as final form namek frieza. Wowie! Even still, with the way Gohan's "mystic form" seems to work, it's not exactly a form at all. I'm not even sure it's an on/off switch. He just powers up. I suppose at some point it becomes binary, bang or no bang, but with Gohan's "base form" becoming even weaker since the end of the Buu saga and throughout Super, it seems like he could potentially go from a base power level of something like 50 million all the way back up to 100 billion or something, which sounds crazy but if true would put him and Frieza in an interestingly similar boat. If we assume that Frieza's final form has gotten, let's be generous and call it 50 times stronger, then his "new base," so to speak, is at a power level of roughly 6 billion. He could give Perfect Cell a run for his money with that power level, but ultimately it wouldn't be quite enough. But Super's True Golden Frieza can stand toe-to-toe with SSB Goku using Kaiyoken x10, an insanely impressive feat that Gohan just doesn't quite match. We usually assume that SSB is stronger to some unspecified degree than SSJ2 and anwhere from slightly weaker or slightly stronger than SSJ3 but with much better ki and stamina control. We also generally assume that Gohan's full mystic power is at least as strong as SSJ2 and probably stronger. Super-level Ultimate Gohan can probably hang with Super-level SSJ3 Goku, but Goku can push himself ten times that level, making Goku's full power at minimum a hilarious 1 trillion. And True Golden Frieza is easily at that level. The range of power levels is tighter with Frieza (increasing by a factor of roughly 167 compared with Gohan's power increasing up to 2000 times), and Frieza ultimately has the higher power, but the general concept of both of them having a somewhat "weak" "base form" and then one, ultra-powerful transformation puts them in a similar space.[/spoiler]
You don't seem to remember those things correctly.

Freeza saga:In all those instances you mentioned all Gohan did was get angry and rush to the enemy only for his rage gimmick to faill and then for him to need to be saved every time.How is that not stupid or pathetic?
I suppose I should have said, "in the past he's never been portrayed as both stupid and pathetic at once, and never either to such a degree as he currently is being portrayed." Would you agree more with that?

In the Frieza saga he actually scared Frieza at least twice that I recall and got several solid shots in on Frieza causing him actual pain through going berserk against an enemy whose standing power level was way out of his league. I would never say that's anything close to pathetic, and even if you must say so you can't say it's on the same level as getting punked by a guy that's weaker than you and being written as incapable of doing anything about it.
Cell saga:He stopped fighting with Cell,then got ssj2 and played around with Cell,saved Vegeta and got his arm injured only to give up again before Goku tells him to man up.Yeah how amazing that he screwed up and needed to Goku to hold his hand.
Again, I'm not going to call this performance smart by any means, and that's not actually what I'm trying to say, but he fought better against Cell than he has against just about anybody in Super. His performance against Lavenda was shoddy, he eek'd out the win by finally wising up, but he was simply, as you say later, a brute. The point I guess I'm trying to make is that Gohan never used to be so simply a brute. He had technique.
Compared to the buu saga he seems to be doing amazing so far.
I just don't see how you're seeing that. So far in Super he's gotten bitch-slapped by First Form Frieza, ignored for two arcs, but now he's "back (TM)" and so far he's managed to barely draw against a foe his dad or Vegeta could beat in their base forms, he's gotten beat by Piccolo in his SSJ2 form, he's gotten handled by SSJ2 Goku in his Ultimate Form, and in the Tournament of Power his best showing has been defeating Botamo, an opponent SSJ Vegeta was shown struggling with. Gohan struggled against Obuni (but defeated him), who could very well be secretly stronger than the likes of SSJ2 Goku or so, but I'd be surprised, and since has been running scared from a guy Tenshinhan can defeat with 1/4 of his power, from a laser robot, getting completely owned by a Yardrat whose likely weaker than SSJ Goku, and being unfavorably compared against Final Form Frieza. I don't know if I'd call running away from, losing to, and occasionally beating a few henceman-level enemies an amazing showing compared to the Buu saga where he was beating the crap out of the most feared evil in the universe when no one else could even touch the thing.
As for Jimeze he simply outsmarted Gohan,not that hard since Gohan is mostly a brute.
And Freeza outsmarted Jimeze who outsmarted Gohan,so Freeza is a smarter fighter than Gohan,simple as that.
Jimeze didn't exactly outsmart Gohan, he used a technique that Gohan couldn't match. That simple. It would be like if Gohan couldn't fly and Jimeze could. It's not outsmarting if you're doing something your opponent can't do anything about. I won't argue that Gohan is really dumb when it comes to fighting. My main point is that he never used to be this dumb. Gohan's supposed to have his fighting spirit back. Even against Lavenda he fought him blind and did better than this. More to the point, his father uses instant transmission, Gohan is familiar with the technique and should be able to formulate some form of strategy against it. I'm complaining about the writing, and it was the writing that decided that Gohan has no strategy against it when it would make sense if he did.

Certainly Frieza is a smarter fighter than Gohan, but I don't understand how you think Frieza outsmarted Jimeze either. He simply couldn't be ambushed by instant transmission which just doesn't make any sense. If Frieza somehow possesses the uncanny ability to react instantaneously to danger, then he's a better fighter than either Goku or Vegeta and can fight without thinking. That doesn't make him smart. If Frieza somehow possesses the uncanny ability to know where someone using instant transmission will appear, then he's got a super power nobody else can replicate, but that doesn't make him smart. You can say, oh, he teleported up, he did that to Gohan, so Frieza obviously predicted it because he's so smart! But that's asinine. Jimeze did that twice and in no particular combination or pattern, and both times his manner of attack was different. Jimeze sometimes teleported to the side or even right in front of Gohan as Gohan's attention dictated. How Frieza is suddenly able to have no blind spots or use his tail to protect his blind spots when Jimeze could just as easily teleport directly in Frieza's face makes no sense at all. His defeat of Jimeze didn't show smarts, Frieza was simply immune to what is almost always a foolproof skill, in a way that made no sense, and overpowered his opponent.

Yes, Frieza is a smart fighter. Arguably top 3 or even higher in the combat smarts department, but the way the battle with Jimeze was handled, both how much trouble Gohan was having against him and how easily Frieza ignored his ability, really bothered me.
I've begun a full-scale re-write of the Tournament of Power! Here's Ch. 1, here's Ch.
2
, and here's Ch.
3!

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Bullza » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 pm

Noah wrote:Please, if wasn't DBZ, Super wouldn't even exist.
What does that have to do with it?

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