Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

[Noah]

I wonder if this thread will surpass #66 number of posts

This was definitely one of if not THE best episode in Super but honestly was anyone besides me actually disappointed that Goku didn't win this time

Mate, the arc didn't finished yet. You can still expect Goku to win eventually.

Also Goku was on pair with Jiren not beating him. I think the power levels are like this:

WISS 15
Beerus is 10
Vegeta SSBLUE 7
Goku SSBLUE 8
Golden Freezer 8
Hit 8
Jiren 11
Goku ultra instinct 11
Gogeta SSBLUE 15

I'm surprised there are people who still use the obsolete 15-10-6 scale from Battle Of Gods (2013)

Pardon, but nothing in these episodes has implied that either Jiren or Goku had surpassed Beerus yet.

[Cipher]

P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.

If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."

I agree that it's not the kind of thing you openly state. Though there are logistical problems too; namely the fact that there's only one wish and the Zenos are right there to erase the universes again if they so choose.

If someone intends on using the Dragon Balls to restore the universes, they're going to have to be pretty careful about how they do it.

[HeroR]

Also...respect to Hit for being the only other guy with balls. He saw Goku get wrecked and STILL wants a piece of Jiren.

The other universes were ready to fight the Pride Troopers despite seeing the second strongest guy at the tournament be vaporized effortlessly.

[BlueBasilisk]

P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.

If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."

Grand Priest kinda shot himself in the foot there by saying the winner would be allowed to wish for whatever they wanted back when the rules were announced. I feel like the writers are trying to steer you away from thinking about that option to keep a sense of tension and dread, so that when/if it comes up at the end, you respond with "oh, of course!" Goku previously expressed his distaste for innocent people being erased so I'm sure he'll do something. He might not have considered that option yet. If Universe 7 wins I think there'll be some discussion about the wish and how it can best be executed to make everyone happy.

[namekiansaiyan]

Also...respect to Hit for being the only other guy with balls. He saw Goku get wrecked and STILL wants a piece of Jiren.

Did you miss the part where the other fighters started to approach Jiren?

[HeroR]

Grand Priest kinda shot himself in the foot there by saying the winner would be allowed to wish for whatever they wanted back when the rules were announced. I feel like the writers are trying to steer you away from thinking about that option to keep a sense of tension and dread, so that when/if it comes up at the end, you respond with "oh, of course!" Goku previously expressed his distaste for innocent people being erased so I'm sure he'll do something. He might not have considered that option yet. If Universe 7 wins I think there'll be some discussion about the wish and how it can best be executed to make everyone happy.

They can wish for whatever they want....and Zen'o can just erased the universes again because he didn't want them around. He may erased all the universes since someone defied his will.

[Trickster]

Yeah, how I thought it would be, I couldn't enjoy this special. The number of problems is so big I can't ignore them.

-Vegeta's behavior was completely out of character (wtf, man, did you forget about Boo Saga at all?).

That`s a staple of the series. Remember how Yamcha dies in the Saiyan Saga by beig cocky and letting his guard down as if the two previous Tournaments didn`t taugh him anything? His fight with Shen was just an arc away. It made as much sense as Tenshinhan turning his back on someone who wasn`t out or Vegeta letting Cell become Perfect despite the cries of his own son when previously he was humiliated by 18 and the same son came to his rescue.

There`s stubburness and then there`s Toryama-esque.

Vegeta had a whole development arc between Cell and Boo Saga. That can be seen at the end of Cell, when he saw Trunks being murdered, and at the end of Boo, when he admited Goku was number one. Also in their interaction at EoZ.

Vegeta should be worried with Earth, its people and, above all, Bulma, Trunks and Bra, who he demonstrated a lot of concern since she was born.
-
My point is: one mistake does not justify another one. Toriyama missed in Yamcha before, but Vegeta is a much more expressive and important character, and DB became pretty much serious since Piccolo Daimaoh's Saga. Those kind of stuff should not happen anymore.

[Lord Beerus]

Grand Priest kinda shot himself in the foot there by saying the winner would be allowed to wish for whatever they wanted back when the rules were announced. I feel like the writers are trying to steer you away from thinking about that option to keep a sense of tension and dread, so that when/if it comes up at the end, you respond with "oh, of course!" Goku previously expressed his distaste for innocent people being erased so I'm sure he'll do something. He might not have considered that option yet. If Universe 7 wins I think there'll be some discussion about the wish and how it can best be executed to make everyone happy.

They can wish for whatever they want....and Zen'o can just erased the universes again because he didn't want them around. He may erased all the universes since someone defied his will.

Yeah. Zeno may be Goku's friend, but Goku is so not in any position at all to start defying Zeno. Zeno could easily get very annoyed and angry with Goku for undoing something he had planned for and just erase Goku on the spot for it. Hell, he could so much worse than that if he wanted to.

[BlueBasilisk]

Grand Priest kinda shot himself in the foot there by saying the winner would be allowed to wish for whatever they wanted back when the rules were announced. I feel like the writers are trying to steer you away from thinking about that option to keep a sense of tension and dread, so that when/if it comes up at the end, you respond with "oh, of course!" Goku previously expressed his distaste for innocent people being erased so I'm sure he'll do something. He might not have considered that option yet. If Universe 7 wins I think there'll be some discussion about the wish and how it can best be executed to make everyone happy.

They can wish for whatever they want....and Zen'o can just erased the universes again because he didn't want them around. He may erased all the universes since someone defied his will.

I'm sure his good buddy Goku could talk him out of it. He wanted to try and nobody let him. Besides, there's always the "put everyone in Universe 7" option which imo is the most likely since they bothered to mention want an empty dump U7 is. Solves everyone's issues, we know Super Shenron can work across universe, and Zeno has nothing to complain about because he has only 5 universes like he wanted.

[HeroR]

I'm sure his good buddy Goku could talk him out of it. He wanted to try and nobody let him. Besides, there's always the "put everyone in Universe 7" option which imo is the most likely since they bothered to mention want an empty dump U7 is. Solves everyone's issues, we know Super Shenron can work across universe, and Zeno has nothing to complain about because he has only 5 universes like he wanted.

I think you guys overestimated Goku's friendship with Zen'o. As Beerus pointed out, Zen'o maybe Goku's 'friend', but he will erased his ass without a second thought. Heck, he wasn't that sad when he thought Goku vaporized. He sounded more disappointed.

And who says Beerus want those people in his universe? And where are you going to put those former Gods of Destruction and Kais?

[BlueBasilisk]

I'm sure his good buddy Goku could talk him out of it. He wanted to try and nobody let him. Besides, there's always the "put everyone in Universe 7" option which imo is the most likely since they bothered to mention want an empty dump U7 is. Solves everyone's issues, we know Super Shenron can work across universe, and Zeno has nothing to complain about because he has only 5 universes like he wanted.

I think you guys overestimated Goku's friendship with Zen'o. As Beerus pointed out, Zen'o maybe Goku's 'friend', but he will erased his ass without a second thought. Heck, he wasn't that sad when he thought Goku vaporized. He sounded more disappointed.

And who says Beerus want those people in his universe? And where are you going to put those former Gods of Destruction and Kais?

And I think people overestimate how cruel and fickle Zeno is. Just ask him if it's okay and see if there's an option that makes him happy. Bergamo addressed him directly and he had no issues with it and he has likewise shown that he's fine with Goku talking to him on multiple occasions.

As for Beerus, he doesn't really get a say. The wish is what the winning fighter wants, not what the winning universe wants. If Beerus and Shin were doing their damn jobs like they should, Universe 7 wouldn't even be in this mess. They'd be free and clear. So, either keep the gods around and have them split the workload with Beerus and Shin since they clearly aren't doing things right, or just make them retire or resign. We know that they can.

[Kinokima]

Wow some people really hold Goku to a ridiculously high standard. No one else is mentioning wishing back the Universes either so why does only Goku have to mention it? Maybe he is thinking of it but doesn't want to let all his card out on the table just yet. Let's not make rash judgements until the end of this arc when we see how everything plays out.

[HeroR]

And I think people overestimate how cruel and fickle Zeno is. Just ask him if it's okay and see if there's an option that makes him happy. Bergamo addressed him directly and he had no issues with it and he has likewise shown that he's fine with Goku talking to him on multiple occasions.

As for Beerus, he doesn't really get a say. The wish is what the winning fighter wants, not what the winning universe wants. If Beerus and Shin were doing their damn jobs like they should, Universe 7 wouldn't even be in this mess. They'd be free and clear. So, either keep the gods around and have them split the workload with Beerus and Shin since they clearly aren't doing things right, or just make them retire or resign. We know that they can.

I don't think the option would make Zen'o happy, otherwise he wouldn't be erasing universes to begin with. Zen'o also made that deal with Bergamo knowing he had no real chance of winning since Present Zen'o has seen Goku fight. Why do you think they told Goku not to hold back if they thought Bergamo posed a real threat to Goku to the point that Goku had to used his full power.

Again, why should Beerus and Shin take in the losers from other universes, including their gods. They had just an equal chance to survived and they blew it. All the lower universes are loser who didn't do their jobs, so it isn't like they're can look down on Shin and Beerus. And to be blunt, I don't think anyone in U7 give enough of care about the other universes and will probably listened to Beerus and Shin when they point out all the problems they will run into if they start smashing universes together.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Also...respect to Hit for being the only other guy with balls. He saw Goku get wrecked and STILL wants a piece of Jiren.

Did you miss the part where the other fighters started to approach Jiren?

Did any of them actually do anything? Nope. Looking at a guy doesnt get respect. Hit jumped in there.

[HeroR]

Also...respect to Hit for being the only other guy with balls. He saw Goku get wrecked and STILL wants a piece of Jiren.

Did you miss the part where the other fighters started to approach Jiren?

Did any of them actually do anything? Nope. Looking at a guy doesnt get respect. Hit jumped in there.

They were going to attack and then Goku reappeared. Hit just tried to blindside Jiren since people usually drop their guard when finishing someone.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Did you miss the part where the other fighters started to approach Jiren?

Did any of them actually do anything? Nope. Looking at a guy doesnt get respect. Hit jumped in there.

They were going to attack and then Goku reappeared. Hit just tried to blindside Jiren since people usually drop their guard when finishing someone.

"We were going to attack" doesnt count either. They still just stood there and looked, noone made a move. None of them did what Hit did is the point.

I'm not calling everyone else out as much as saying "Good Job Hit" for actually flying in and trying to do something.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

From the looks of the NEP, it looks like Hit's hax are only JUST managing to keep him from being turned into mush by Jiren. Which makes sense, since this is a guy that may surpass even the Gods of Destruction and easily handled a much stronger Goku that could keep up with the improved Hit, at least before the Tournament of Power started.

I gotta give him mad props for doing his darnedest to hang in there with the strongest guy in the entire tournament.

[HeroR]

"We were going to attack" doesnt count either. They still just stood there and looked, noone made a move. None of them did what Hit did is the point.

I'm not calling everyone else out as much as saying "Good Job Hit" for actually flying in and trying to do something.

Why doesn't it count? They were all going to mug the person who just easily vaporized the second strongest person at the tournament. They didn't lose the will to fight like what the U11 gods thought, which is why they wanted to waste Goku.

Hit did a good job for trying to attack Jiren when his guard was lowered. In other words, Hit deserves credit for being smart and pragmatic, but not necessarily brave since most of the other universes showed the same bravery.

[GodKaio-Ken]

"We were going to attack" doesnt count either. They still just stood there and looked, noone made a move. None of them did what Hit did is the point.

I'm not calling everyone else out as much as saying "Good Job Hit" for actually flying in and trying to do something.

Why doesn't it count? They were all going to mug the person who just easily vaporized the second strongest person at the tournament. They didn't lose the will to fight like what the U11 gods thought, which is why they wanted to waste Goku.

Hit did a good job for trying to attack Jiren when his guard was lowered. In other words, Hit deserves credit for being smart and pragmatic, but not necessarily brave since most of the other universes showed the same bravery.

I'm not saying they arent brave. I'm just saying Hit actually did what they were thinking about doing if that makes sense.

To liken it to real life:

Kind of like if your sibling takes out the trash before you...and you were genuinely planning on doing it but they get all the praise because they did the physical task.

[namekiansaiyan]

At 11:32 of episode 110 did anyone see Biarra upside down with Catopesra trying to pull him up? I don't think Biarra is very good and you also see the Namekians for a second time just watching Goku.