Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

[Kuwabara]

Very intriguing set of episodes that raise more questions than they answer... And as good as they were, I have a feeling we haven't seen anything yet!

[Dbzfan94]

Getting tired of Ribrianne. She's been doing the same shtick this whole thing it's lost the appeal.
Minor blemish on an otherwise great two episodes

[Noah]

I wonder why Quitela was so calm despite seeing the display of Jiren overwhelming power? Do he have a trick under the sleeve?

[SaiyanGod117]

I felt a disappointed, there was certainly some good moments but overall the quality didn’t hold up. One particular gripe I had with this special is that there was way too much talking and not enough of fighting. In addition, to some parts of the writing being lackluster and rehashed, ranging from how events played out to the characters. Which it makes feel like a soulless effort on the writing department’s part, this is a reoccurring flaw of Super that needs to be addressed. Although, again it wasn’t all bad, I would give the special a C+ or B-, the spoilers definitely had an effect on my watching experience.

[TheOne]

Yeah I was scratching my head too during all that. Even GT went to better lengths explaining why the Genki Dama should work. Seems like something a subpar DBZ movie would do. I feel like they didn't know how else to put the Genki Dama in to help Goku reach his new form so they were like "Trust us guys, this Genki Dama is way more powerful"

Honestly? Everyone could've been so overwhelmed by how powerful Jiren was, they were willing to contribute their energy for the sake of not having to fight Jiren. The enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda approach. Getting energy from the the strongest fighters in 8 universes sounds like a more realistic plan than just U7.

But that's just my approach I guess.

That's a good idea. Since it would be a temporary thing they wouldn't have to worry about Goku using it on them too, since it's reliant on their power and temporary. But then Goku would've had to assume they'd help, or ask for their help, neither of which I think he'd do.

Incredible. It was well worth the wait. Amazing music and animation. You can tell they really worked hard on this special.

Vegeta not giving Goku energy was strange especially considering the fact that Freeza did it.

I guess it was within the rules for the eliminated earthlings to give their energy, I thought someone would have protested.

I was half expecting Grand priest to say something

Haha I guess we're on a similar wave length today. That and when the eliminated girl gave "love" or whatever to Ribrianne seemed like illegal actions that would disqualify someone

Twinsies!

Ironic that she wanted to do a sneak attack when she threw a fit about 17 interrupting her transformation haha

[TheOne]

I wonder why Quitela was so calm despite seeing the display of Jiren overwhelming power? Do he have a trick under the sleeve?

Right? That was really weird. Even when he realized what Goku was doing, all he did was just sweat. Makes me wonder if he's up to something

[Forte224]

Honestly? Everyone could've been so overwhelmed by how powerful Jiren was, they were willing to contribute their energy for the sake of not having to fight Jiren. The enemy of my enemy is my friend kinda approach. Getting energy from the the strongest fighters in 8 universes sounds like a more realistic plan than just U7.

But that's just my approach I guess.

That's a good idea. Since it would be a temporary thing they wouldn't have to worry about Goku using it on them too, since it's reliant on their power and temporary. But then Goku would've had to assume they'd help, or ask for their help, neither of which I think he'd do.

I was half expecting Grand priest to say something

Haha I guess we're on a similar wave length today. That and when the eliminated girl gave "love" or whatever to Ribrianne seemed like illegal actions that would disqualify someone

Twinsies!

Ironic that she wanted to do a sneak attack when she threw a fit about 17 interrupting her transformation haha

Yeah that was pretty funny too. Maybe intentional by the writers?? ...Nahhh who am I kidding?

[MaskedRider]

I wonder why Quitela was so calm despite seeing the display of Jiren overwhelming power? Do he have a trick under the sleeve?

Right? That was really weird. Even when he realized what Goku was doing, all he did was just sweat. Makes me wonder if he's up to something

My theory was / is that the small insects he brought with him are not there to fight but to make sure he has enough warriors by the end to not be eliminated since nobody is noticing them yet it seems to be working so he is just chilling being confident in his own plan

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Holy crap these two episodes were awesome. The animation, the music and the fight was great all around.

[DainIronfoot]

Special was fantastic, that's the best way to put it.

It's weird how the part where Whis mentions the mortal stronger than a GoD. It's like he only thought of it as a rumor and seemed confused. Though originally, when he mentioned it it sounded like he knew who the mortal was, or at least should of known it was from Universe 11, since he said said mortal is stronger than his GoD who's stronger than Beerus.

The wording of that sequence was annoying, because it wasn't totally confirmed, but was implied...especially with the shot turning to Vermoud right after.

Anyways, NEP looks great too...let's keep the good streak going!

I thought the whole thing with the revealing of Jiren being that mortal was weird.

They handled this so poorly. Belmoud was concerned about Goku when Toppo fought him, and showed no evidence that he even knew who Jiren was. If Belmoud knew Jiren was this strong, he wouldn't of cared about what Toppo could do. He'd know Jiren could solo everyone. He had to assure him his friend Jiren would take care of it.

It almost came across as Toei was willing to just overlook little stuff like that just to keep things under wraps. Kinda like lying just for the sake of a dramatic moment.

Yeah, i thought the same. It didn't seem to make sense to me.

[Cipher]

My theory was / is that the small insects he brought with him are not there to fight but to make sure he has enough warriors by the end to not be eliminated since nobody is noticing them yet it seems to be working so he is just chilling being confident in his own plan

That's my thought as well. They can probably do something else advantageous, but the winner is just the universe with the most competitors remaining at the end of the time limit.

Though that'd depend on, say, Jiren not clearing the field well before time runs out. So I don't know.

These were the two best-directed episodes of Super without question. Quite enjoyed them. Both the action and the character-beats shined.

I liked Ribrianne this episode, but that's because there were some new, snappy beats with her, like the ridiculous love transformation (and that whole fight with Goku was amazingly directed), and her little bits with Jiren and the attempted sneak attack on Goku later. That's a fun character when they're switching things up and aren't relying on the same tired jokes for six episodes.

Then again, Super on the whole would be a fun show if it weren't relying on tired beats and jokes so often. My misgivings with it in a microcosm, with our friend Ribrianne there.

[Vegeta452]

Lived up to the hype IMHO.

I never expected to hear Zamasu's theme (well sort of a remix I guess?) again... that was surprising. Certainly reminded me how much I love that piece of music and desperately wish they'd release it along with all the other BGM we've had since the 1st OST....

Could it be foreshadowing? Zamasu was a prodigy at martial arts, and here Goku has supposedly attained an ability that even Gods have trouble learning.

[OLKv3]

Thoughts on this?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[The_Destroyer]

Excellent episode, look forward to seeing more of the new form.



Bt I gotta say, Rebrianne and Vegeta were super unlikeable in these episodes. I guess Rebrianne is being intentionally written to be unlikeable, but Vegeta being a prick and not donating energy was dumb. It's like they forgot his buu saga development completely.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Ok ok so, Vegeta not contributing was in-character, but still assholish lmao. At least he helped Goku not get interrupted by... Ribranne, of ALL people. Wow, she's a hypocrite for trying to interrupt the process. But hey, all's fair in love and war!

Back to this, after watching the two episodes again, in retrospect, Ribrianne was pretty annoying, actually.

[omaro34]

Toppo got clowned. He was totally outmatched. I'm not expecting him to be a major player anymore. His attacks on Goku was just to show how strong Goku's new form is.

[avasatu]

Way too much to say.

500/10, first of all.

Likes:

Amazing cinematography, audio (PLEASE watch these episodes with headphones with good bass), sound effects, particle/splash effects, animation, story-boarding.

Excellent fight choreography, particularly during 109. The ramp up to both the 109 fight and Goku revealing himself in 110 were excellently done.

The portrayal of Ultra Instinct was beautiful.

I actually liked the Ribrianne fight, for the most part. I have no idea how that happened. Admittedly, her getting booted into Jiren was the best part, but still.

Everyone's reactions to Goku getting hit by the bomb were on point. I loved Gohan's yells being muted.

Goku attacking Jiren with (almost) every form was magnificently done. Excellent buildup. I hope the other writers are taking notice of these tactics.

"He's coming..."

Interesting Tidbits:

Beerus' reaction to Goku getting hit by the SB was chilling. Belmod's close-up when Whis was explaining Jiren's power was equally chilling. I'm still not sure something isn't up with U11.

Whis was so excited for Goku, lol! Meanwhile, the GP was actually dumbfounded (which is far more serious than people are giving it credit), and a few of the gods were not shaken at all by Goku's power. Most notably and frighteningly, Quitela even seemed...happy?

Jiren is beyond at least some of the g.o.d.s. I'd wager he's only used a small fraction of his power, as well. This guy was so strong his will power alone shoved back KKx20+ Goku + an enormously strong bomb.

Frieza's reactions to Goku's biggest moves were interesting. He appears to be studying it all. It's also fairly clear he's going to give Goku energy, just like Goku did for him on Namek.

No one got knocked out.

Kaioken x 20 appeared to have no negative effects on Goku in the least.

Things I didn't like:

I'm going to really force myself to type these out, for the sake of being fair.

While the animation was excellent, the modeling often was not. In particular, it seems Toei can't decide on how Jiren should be drawn, though, at times, he was drawn superbly.

Ultra Instinct Goku vs Jiren lacked a little choreography. A liiiiittle too many "tiny white shockwave" battles; one or two "wow" moments added to the fight would have made the episode legendary (if it isn't already).

Would have liked to see Goku tank a few heavy hits from people, or at least dodge a few more peoples' attacks. Him walking around the Justice Flash was cool (and even deflecting one of them), but I wanted a few more things like that to happen.

I'm forcing it at this point...

Curiosities:

Can Goku stack his transformations on top of Ultra Instinct? I don't see why not, though I don't think he's going to be able to use it for awhile.

When he next uses it, he won't have the spirit bomb powering him, so he won't have the same aura. Enter the red aura from the poster? Mastered Ultra Instinct (coining the term now)?

Maybe chocolate Goku is Mastered Ultra Instinct + SS or SSB? Maybe you can only go SSB on top of it (and not SS), since perhaps you may NEED god ki to even use it?

Who is the new warrior shown on the new toy box? The box appears to claim that Goku, Gohan, Hit, and one mystery "new" warrior will be some of the last fighters, and it's difficult to tell who the warrior is by the silhouette. It's not Jiren or Frieza, though, but I guess they will make it to the end.

What is Jiren's wish?

I now wonder what Jiren's training has been like. It was out right stated that it was not your average regimen.

I don't see how Hit manages to get such a good hit on Jiren that he knocks him through all those mountains in the NEP. I know his Time Skip improves, but his power has no reason to, and he can't be above SSB Goku currently. Meh, who cares. It'll be great.


P.S. If you didn't like these episodes, I don't understand how you will continue watching the show. This special marks the period where all the true haters and perpetual pessimists drop out of the community and leave us in peace. I know you won't leave, because you secretly love the show, but at least consider it.

[Freeza9000]

Can we at least have Freeza send Dyspo and Toppo to the stands next episode?

[Jigurashi]

Mmmm...unique design, silent, mega strong. The dialogue surrounding him piqued a lot of interest, such as one saying he obviously obtained this power through a special type of training, Toppo saying he needs to get the Super Dragon Balls to get his wish, implying he has a greater purpose, and then the bomb itself being dropped by Whis that he's stronger than a Hakaishin. I mean, how is he so dis interesting to you that he's boring?

Probably because he's a stoic, taciturn character who prefers to say ver few words. It's a legit reason not to like the character. I personally like the dude. Of the stoic characters in this series, only one I even somewhat dislike is Tenshinhan. But showing little emotion is a legit reason to dislike him.

I mean, I guess yeah I can see why people would dislike him but to be as insistent as Vados_chan seems a bit excessive

I mean yeah I agree there. There's reason why a person could like any character.

[D_Gabe]

It was an amazing set of episodes... but, can anyone tell me where to find the spoilers?? I'm very intrigued by what it's gonna happen next. This Migarte no Gokui is a state only Gods and Angels can attain... I'm guessing Goku has something additional under his sleeve...