Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

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Timetraveller
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Timetraveller » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:46 am

Really awesome episodes!

The only thing that would have made it better is if it was the funimation dub. I still can't get over Nozawa's high pitched growling. Sean's screams would have brought it to a new level!

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TheOne » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:50 am

mAcChaos wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Metrite wrote:Holy crap! This sensation... this feeling that came over me as I watched the latest episodes... It was amazing! And also somewhat... nostalgic. I enjoyed the whole special, and as I watched I continued to feel more and more like I had been sent through some time warp to over twenty years in the past. I certainly enjoyed it but kept wondering why this all seemed so familiar. Like a feeling I last experienced long ago when Goku first turned ssj. Then we get to the end of the episode where Freeza mentions that this brings back memories of planet Namek, and everything suddenly clicked. Goku fighting an opponent that totally outclasses him, using Kaiouken X20 to no avail, resorting to the Genki Dama, emerging from the rubble to suddenly reach a new form that suddenly made him equal to his godly opponent... This is all exactly what happened back in the Freeza saga! It even has the "one episode equals about one minute" wackiness going on! :lol:

As I watched the part where Goku progressed through forms against Jiren, I started to think that this arc so far has had practically every ssj form except ssj3 which Goku skipped. Somebody needs to turn ssj3 by the end of the tourney so it can be declared the greatest ssj-all-form bargain sale ever... Caulifla!

And the Genki Dama being strong makes sense to me if one considers both of its energy gathering properties. It was explained in its debut that it gathers a little energy from everything from people to inanimate objects involuntarily. It can also draw a lot of energy from a person if they offer it up voluntarily like against Buu. That's why Goku said it wasn't enough after he thanked the fighters from universe 7 (except Vegeta who clearly wants to conserve his strength) that pitched in, and then said that it would take too long to gather enough; he had received his voluntary contribution and now needed to gather it slowly from involuntary contributors. That could get pretty strong considering all the gods and strong fighters sitting around. However, it would take a long time to do, but Goku was lucky enough for Jiren to be a good sport and just wait it out to prove himself.
On a side note, that rumor about the Genki Dama being unable to hurt anybody good needs to go die in a fire. I'm tempted to say that piece of misinformation has gotten even more out of hand than the dumb old "Gohan didn't turn ssj against Buu because the Earth would've blown up" rumor that used to be everywhere. lol
You had me up until you started justifying the strength of the Spirit Bomb.

The Spirit Bomb made absolutely no sense when it came to how strong it was. While you made points about it taking the life from living things around them, they're in a void. Where there's no evidence of life anywhere else besides them.

You said something along the lines of the Spirit Bomb taking the energy from involuntary contributor, which is absolutely not true. Part of the issue in the Buu saga was that nobody was contributing their energy to the Spirit Bomb. Just their family and friends. It required the help of Hercule for the Spirit Bomb to be powerful enough to beat Buu.

Keep in mind that everyone in this tournament (except Frieza and Vegeta) gave their energy to the Spirit Bomb fighting kid Buu. Not only that, but they had Goten and Trunks as well as the entire planet earth give their energy to the absolute maximum. To the point where there was an issue of them being over drained. That was barely enough to beat Buu.

Now you have just U7 contributing to this Spirit Bomb and all of a sudden it's strong enough to cause someone as strong as Jiren to change his facial expression, when the last Spirit Bomb had more contributors to it. It makes absolutely no sense. The only way that would be even remotely possible was if everyone gave up way too much energy. Energy they'd need to to endure the rest of the tournament. Even that's a stretch.

It's bad enough that they tried to play this off like it's consistent. It's even worse when people try to come up with reasons behind such a flaw.
You're forgetting that this current Spirit Bomb was made by the energy of all the Z fighters who have become much stronger compared to the Buu Saga.

Gohan, 17, these guys are all on SSJ Blue level and probably were more than enough alone to make the Spirit Bomb stronger than the Buu Saga's.
Gohan is barely back to what he was at in Z. To be completely honest, nobody else in that group besides 17, Frieza and Vegeta (who didn't even give energy) are much stronger than what they use to be. They're the same (unless you count Roshis unnecessary power boost). The amount of energy they would need to have the Spirit Bomb we just witnessed would've completely depleted them of their energy. Rendering them useless to fight. The fact that they were able to give this apparent "unimaginable" amount of energy that somehow impressed the Dieties was just silly.

8 fighters of U7 gave their energy to this attack. When they fought kid Buu, billions of people gave their energy to "Hercule". To the point where Vegeta wanted him to take more and they couldn't. They also had Goten and Trunks contribute. Now this Spirit Bomb is magically stronger than kid buus Spirit Bomb even though these guys need to last another 30 or so minutes longer in this tournament. It makes no sense. They couldn't give so much energy to the Spirit Bomb where couldn't fend for themselves afterwards.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TheOne » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:57 am

Metrite wrote:
TheOne wrote: While you made points about it taking the life from living things around them, they're in a void. Where there's no evidence of life anywhere else besides them.
With "them" being the strongest being in all the universes. Also, if Goku could gather energy from other worlds in the Freeza Saga, and from across the universe in the Buu saga, what's to say he couldn't eventually reach as far as gathering energy from other universes? (Not that that has any relevance to the point.)
Part of the issue in the Buu saga was that nobody was contributing their energy to the Spirit Bomb.
No, the issue in the Buu saga was that taking just a little energy from everybody (involuntary) wouldn't be enough to beat Buu as Goku himself said. As soon as Vegeta mentioned the Genki Dama, Goku shot it down saying even a little energy from everybody wouldn't be enough because he thought Vegeta expected him to do it the old fashioned way where he is left to draw draw energy on his own without any knowing contributors. The fact that he mentions this means he can indeed take a little energy from everybody without them offering/knowing, but only a little, which wouldn't be enough for Buu. That line along with what Kaiou said in the saiyan saga both show it can. If the one and only way to get energy was from voluntary contributors then Goku saying he needs more time (and Jiren giving it to him) would make no sense because after every volunteer had done their part it would already be at its absolute limit.
It's bad enough that they tried to play this off like it's consistent. It's even worse when people try to come up with reasons behind such a flaw.
And even worse still when some folks just have to insist that something has just got to be a glaring flaw (when it well may not be) because they can't live without something to complain about. :P
I invite you to watch the kid Buu fight again, because you borderline don't know what you're talking about. When Goku takes the "involuntary" energy, it's from the earth, trees and all that nature crap. Not from human beings. If that was the case, the use of Hercule would not have been necessary. Hercule had to speak on their behalf because people were NOT giving them energy.

You conveniently skipped over my other points and just focused on attempting to debunk these statements. Care to elaborate on my other statements?
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 am

TheOne wrote:
Ilikepictures-meh wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Ribrianne doesn't take away from the series for me. It's like you said, just not my cup of tea. I just disagreed that it was a masculinity thing. I should've communicated that differently.
It's spelled Fairy Tail, not "Fairy Tale".
Also while I understand hearing her talk about love could get annoying, it's no different from Vegeta constantly talking or bragging about his "Saiyan Pride" imo.
Just glad you're not claiming she's weak or something like most delusional people, just because you dislike the character when she clearly isn't weak. I'm not a fan of Jiren for a few reasons, but I'm not going to claim he's weak as one of them cause that's just absurd.
Who cares how it's spelled...? I'm not obvlivious to the show. I watched a good amount of it before I dropped it. Even glanced at how they wrapped it up. Unnecessary
You're oblivious to its spelling, but since you claimed to have actually watched it. It's a non issue I suppose.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:08 am

That`s not how Dragon Ball type narrative works. If there are treats or Tournaments where most of the main cast participate then they`re stronger than they were in previous arcs. It`s always been this way. You don`t have that with Roshi alone, Kuririn`s training versus Gohan and Goku shows that as well. Tenshinhan can now see invisible opponents, Chiatzu could imobilize current base Goku and heck, even Yamcha who is the comedy relief of the gang in this show not only wanted to participate but survives a clash between two Gods of Destruction while everyone else had to stand behind Whis and his shield and he still moved to win a game.

The question is, does the scene meet the requirements we know of the technique from previous arcs? I don`t think deities being surprised is a big deal. Have they seen it before? Have they seen if often? Was it still a show watching someone who was down and good for make a return like that?
Ki Breaker wrote:

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

Coincidence? I think not

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Kinokima » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:26 am

TheOne wrote:
Metrite wrote:
TheOne wrote: While you made points about it taking the life from living things around them, they're in a void. Where there's no evidence of life anywhere else besides them.
With "them" being the strongest being in all the universes. Also, if Goku could gather energy from other worlds in the Freeza Saga, and from across the universe in the Buu saga, what's to say he couldn't eventually reach as far as gathering energy from other universes? (Not that that has any relevance to the point.)
Part of the issue in the Buu saga was that nobody was contributing their energy to the Spirit Bomb.
No, the issue in the Buu saga was that taking just a little energy from everybody (involuntary) wouldn't be enough to beat Buu as Goku himself said. As soon as Vegeta mentioned the Genki Dama, Goku shot it down saying even a little energy from everybody wouldn't be enough because he thought Vegeta expected him to do it the old fashioned way where he is left to draw draw energy on his own without any knowing contributors. The fact that he mentions this means he can indeed take a little energy from everybody without them offering/knowing, but only a little, which wouldn't be enough for Buu. That line along with what Kaiou said in the saiyan saga both show it can. If the one and only way to get energy was from voluntary contributors then Goku saying he needs more time (and Jiren giving it to him) would make no sense because after every volunteer had done their part it would already be at its absolute limit.
It's bad enough that they tried to play this off like it's consistent. It's even worse when people try to come up with reasons behind such a flaw.
And even worse still when some folks just have to insist that something has just got to be a glaring flaw (when it well may not be) because they can't live without something to complain about. :P
I invite you to watch the kid Buu fight again, because you borderline don't know what you're talking about. When Goku takes the "involuntary" energy, it's from the earth, trees and all that nature crap. Not from human beings. If that was the case, the use of Hercule would not have been necessary. Hercule had to speak on their behalf because people were NOT giving them energy.

You conveniently skipped over my other points and just focused on attempting to debunk these statements. Care to elaborate on my other statements?

You are absolutely correct in the Kid Buu saga they needed the energy from every human on Earth and you can see at the end of the episode the regular Earthlings are completely worn out and exhausted from the energy they gave.

I don't know my only rationale is maybe Kid Buu with his regeneration ability was even stronger than Jiren. Without the regeneration then Jiren is stronger but with the regeneration they needed something ridiculously strong to take Kid Buu down. And though Goku thought he could at a fully re-energized SSJ 3 maybe that wasn't the case. We don't actually know we only have Goku's word for it. I mean I would argue Zamasu and Goku Black may also end up being more of a challenge because of the regeneration aspect too than Jiren is. Jiren is just ridiculously strong and doesn't need to rely on regeneration.

And also at this point in the story it doesn't entirely make sense to me why Goku will be so excited by Uub when he is going to already meet fighters who must be stronger than Uub but there you have it. I guess its Uub's potential.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by percula » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:02 am

Wow, these episodes were SO MUCH FUN!!!!!!!
Haven't felt that excited about Super in quite a while.
Jiren still doesn't have anything interesting personality-wise, but with animation/direction/art/music like that, I didn't even care - felt like a child again, watching Goku's newest transformation and then a thrilling fight :clap:
It's nice that the Genki Dama wasn't just for a callback/showing off Jiren's strength, but contributed to Goku reaching that Ultra Instinct transformation/state. Vegeta was weird for not contributing, but it turned out to be for the best, and he still managed to help. Now I wonder if Vegeta will get any kind of significant moment in this tournament.
That cliffhanger ending, with Hit suddenly beside Jiren, and Freeza with Goku - aaah, just hype all around. Can't wait for the remaining episodes of the tournament, although I also feel really curious about what kind of story the next arc will have.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:31 am

Nickolaidas wrote:P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.
If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:41 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.
If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."
Even disregarding that, I don't know why Goku not making the wish or intend to not makes him an "asshole". It is not his responsibility. He is also not a superhero like the Pride Troopers. Every universe had an equal chance at surviving it is not Goku's fault they lost/eliminated. Furthermore the whole erasure thing was Zen-Oh and always was.

Goku is fighting for his universe and that is all he should be concerned about, if he does something about the other universes then great but it shouldn't be expected/needed of him.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TheOne » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:00 am

Kinokima wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Metrite wrote:With "them" being the strongest being in all the universes. Also, if Goku could gather energy from other worlds in the Freeza Saga, and from across the universe in the Buu saga, what's to say he couldn't eventually reach as far as gathering energy from other universes? (Not that that has any relevance to the point.)

No, the issue in the Buu saga was that taking just a little energy from everybody (involuntary) wouldn't be enough to beat Buu as Goku himself said. As soon as Vegeta mentioned the Genki Dama, Goku shot it down saying even a little energy from everybody wouldn't be enough because he thought Vegeta expected him to do it the old fashioned way where he is left to draw draw energy on his own without any knowing contributors. The fact that he mentions this means he can indeed take a little energy from everybody without them offering/knowing, but only a little, which wouldn't be enough for Buu. That line along with what Kaiou said in the saiyan saga both show it can. If the one and only way to get energy was from voluntary contributors then Goku saying he needs more time (and Jiren giving it to him) would make no sense because after every volunteer had done their part it would already be at its absolute limit.


And even worse still when some folks just have to insist that something has just got to be a glaring flaw (when it well may not be) because they can't live without something to complain about. :P
I invite you to watch the kid Buu fight again, because you borderline don't know what you're talking about. When Goku takes the "involuntary" energy, it's from the earth, trees and all that nature crap. Not from human beings. If that was the case, the use of Hercule would not have been necessary. Hercule had to speak on their behalf because people were NOT giving them energy.

You conveniently skipped over my other points and just focused on attempting to debunk these statements. Care to elaborate on my other statements?

You are absolutely correct in the Kid Buu saga they needed the energy from every human on Earth and you can see at the end of the episode the regular Earthlings are completely worn out and exhausted from the energy they gave.

I don't know my only rationale is maybe Kid Buu with his regeneration ability was even stronger than Jiren. Without the regeneration then Jiren is stronger but with the regeneration they needed something ridiculously strong to take Kid Buu down. And though Goku thought he could at a fully re-energized SSJ 3 maybe that wasn't the case. We don't actually know we only have Goku's word for it. I mean I would argue Zamasu and Goku Black may also end up being more of a challenge because of the regeneration aspect too than Jiren is. Jiren is just ridiculously strong and doesn't need to rely on regeneration.

And also at this point in the story it doesn't entirely make sense to me why Goku will be so excited by Uub when he is going to already meet fighters who must be stronger than Uub but there you have it. I guess its Uub's potential.
Yeah I think it's his potential. I think it's extremely rare for someone to be born as strong as kid Buu. Even Frieza wasn't born as strong as kid Buu and look how story he is now
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by KameNinja45 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:08 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.
If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."
Even disregarding that, I don't know why Goku not making the wish or intend to not makes him an "asshole". It is not his responsibility. He is also not a superhero like the Pride Troopers. Every universe had an equal chance at surviving it is not Goku's fault they lost/eliminated. Furthermore the whole erasure thing was Zen-Oh and always was.

Goku is fighting for his universe and that is all he should be concerned about, if he does something about the other universes then great but it shouldn't be expected/needed of him.
It doesn't matter what his responsibility is. At the very least, he should consider it. Which he hasn't up to this point. He doesn't care about who die in the tournament. In the slightest. Despite most of them being good, innocent people.
Also, not saving trillions of people just because it isn't your responsibility is, at the very least, pretty asshole-ish.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:15 am

KameNinja45 wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universe that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."
Even disregarding that, I don't know why Goku not making the wish or intend to not makes him an "asshole". It is not his responsibility. He is also not a superhero like the Pride Troopers. Every universe had an equal chance at surviving it is not Goku's fault they lost/eliminated. Furthermore the whole erasure thing was Zen-Oh and always was.

Goku is fighting for his universe and that is all he should be concerned about, if he does something about the other universes then great but it shouldn't be expected/needed of him.
It doesn't matter what his responsibility is. At the very least, he should consider it. Which he hasn't up to this point. He doesn't care about who die in the tournament. In the slightest. Despite most of them being good, innocent people.
Also, not saving trillions of people just because it isn't your responsibility is, at the very least, pretty asshole-ish.
That would also make the majority of people in first world countries assholes for not sparing the time to devote to being reminded of the atrocities in the Middle East and Africa. Including you and I.

The problem is that Universe 7 Saiyan morality inherently works on a different spectrum than that of Humans. Goku, for instance, hates to see innocents being hurt in front of him, but he doesn't grasp the bigger picture about what he should do about it beyond what he ordinarily does: fight the bad guy. And in this Tournament of Power, there are no bad guys around for him to fight that will definitively stop people from all the Universes being erased. So he does what he can and fights everyone else to at least save the people he knows he can.

To a simple-minded and battle-ingrained Saiyan warrior like Goku, all he can see at the moment is that he must fight to save his Universe because he can't see how he can help the other Universes after being repeatedly told not to trifle with the Zenos on this matter.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TobyS » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:21 am

Weirdly I didn't enjoy this episode that much, two weeks wait was a really really long time and I've never enjoyed more forms I think 3 was plenty,

No one got eliminated there were no smaller fights or bplots Goku got pushed even further ahead of the rest of the cast making them more useless in a arc that was initially bringing them back to usefulness.

I really hoped for a double ko that'd leave lower powered people left to try and win.

The form wore off with no eliminations so there was no sense of progress. Perhaps It'd be better on a rewatch...

I didn't hate it but I even preferred Tenshinhans episode even though he got screwed by unclear writing. At least that had some novelty.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:22 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:P.S.: I SINCERELY hope Goku was trolling Ribrianne when she asked him what's his wish going to be. If Goku still hasn't thought of resurrecting the other universes, he's a major asshole.
If Goku were to openly state he was going to wish for the universes that Zeno(s) is going erase to be brought back, Grand Priest would be all over him for that. Conversely, these no guarantee at all that Zeno(s) or Grand Priest would even allow such a wish to be made if Goku wins the tournament. They could easily tell Goku when he's about to make that kind of wish, "No. You can't do that."
Even disregarding that, I don't know why Goku not making the wish or intend to not makes him an "asshole". It is not his responsibility. He is also not a superhero like the Pride Troopers. Every universe had an equal chance at surviving it is not Goku's fault they lost/eliminated. Furthermore the whole erasure thing was Zen-Oh and always was.

Goku is fighting for his universe and that is all he should be concerned about, if he does something about the other universes then great but it shouldn't be expected/needed of him.
That's not even taking into consideration that Goku gave all the universes that were going to be erased, a chances to survive, when they previously didn't have that option. And that's something that show actively addresses but people tend to ignore that in and out of universe.
TheOne wrote:
Kinokima wrote:And also at this point in the story it doesn't entirely make sense to me why Goku will be so excited by Uub when he is going to already meet fighters who must be stronger than Uub but there you have it. I guess its Uub's potential.
Yeah I think it's his potential. I think it's extremely rare for someone to be born as strong as kid Buu. Even Frieza wasn't born as strong as kid Buu and look how story he is now
I think it's more to do with the fact that a pure blooded human has the potential to be a strong as Kid Boo. I mean, that insane when you think about it. And Goku has yet to come across and a naturally born earthing who is that strong, so why wouldn't Goku be excited for something like that?

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:46 am

Also...respect to Hit for being the only other guy with balls. He saw Goku get wrecked and STILL wants a piece of Jiren.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Trickster » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:48 am

Yeah, how I thought it would be, I couldn't enjoy this special. The number of problems is so big I can't ignore them.

-Genkidama being so strong doesn't make any sense;
-Vegeta's behavior was completely out of character (wtf, man, did you forget about Boo Saga at all?);
-We have more audience's/god's talking than the fight itself;
-Genkidama turned into something completely different and non-sense (a black hole, what?) ;
-The animation was poor in most of the fight scenes. Only Takahashi's and Shida's shots were real good;
-We have half an episode of Ribriane;
-The use of all ssj forms was completely unnecessary and just cheap non-sense fanservice, as always;
-The other U7 warriors should have tried to do something against Jiren, even it wouldn't work (like in movie 8 );
-Freeza's behavior is so annoying;
-Daishinkan is so wise, he should have sense Goku was not dead;
-Jiren is too overpower to be beaten at the end of this tournament.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:09 am

Trickster wrote:Yeah, how I thought it would be, I couldn't enjoy this special. The number of problems is so big I can't ignore them.

-Vegeta's behavior was completely out of character (wtf, man, did you forget about Boo Saga at all?).
That`s a staple of the series. Remember how Yamcha dies in the Saiyan Saga by beig cocky and letting his guard down as if the two previous Tournaments didn`t taugh him anything? His fight with Shen was just an arc away. It made as much sense as Tenshinhan turning his back on someone who wasn`t out or Vegeta letting Cell become Perfect despite the cries of his own son when previously he was humiliated by 18 and the same son came to his rescue.

There`s stubburness and then there`s Toryama-esque.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:14 am

TobyS wrote:Weirdly I didn't enjoy this episode that much, two weeks wait was a really really long time and I've never enjoyed more forms I think 3 was plenty,

No one got eliminated there were no smaller fights or bplots Goku got pushed even further ahead of the rest of the cast making them more useless in a arc that was initially bringing them back to usefulness.

I really hoped for a double ko that'd leave lower powered people left to try and win.

The form wore off with no eliminations so there was no sense of progress. Perhaps It'd be better on a rewatch...

I didn't hate it but I even preferred Tenshinhans episode even though he got screwed by unclear writing. At least that had some novelty.
Vegeta`s face:

Dammit Kakarot, I just got the Blue!
Ki Breaker wrote:

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

Coincidence? I think not

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Super_Divine_Genki
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:24 am

"Martial artists, especially Master-level ones, want to fight their enemies after bringing out their full power. By seeing how their opponents move and showing their own power, ultimate battles unfold."

~Kuririn (in response to Kaioshin, regarding Goku VS Jiren). Dragon Ball Super #109

Dragon Ball at its competitive core. It's not an actively out-to-save-the-world super-hero series (which needs to be understood if someone is having a difficult time with the events of, for example, the Cell arc). The above quote is very relevant to a recent discussion that took place in the General Discussion forum (in a Faulconer-related thread of all places).


Anyway, Super did very good here. I never liked that the big event in #110 has been promoted for the past 2-3 months, but it was so well executed. See, silence can give a scene so much atmosphere. The wall-to-wall music on this series has been one of my biggest complaints. When everyone was feeling a presence (Goku returning), the music actually stopped -- for a few seconds. More of that, please.

Vegeta not lending to the Genki-dama was a really good move. One of my complaints about Vegeta's writing is how he has been reduced to just following Goku's lead. Vegeta wants to win this ToP too, and wanted to conserve his strength. I don't see it as selfish, or stubborn -- it was Goku's decision. I wonder if Gohan will be later affected by lending his energy... ?

Jiren is completely cool. After Goku returned with Ultra Instinct!!, Jiren is just like: "Oh, you want to keep going. Ok", without expressing the slightest shock or saying a word. He's on an incomprehensible level of mastery.

Hakaishin Beerus has been one of my favorite characters on this series. These latest episodes did so well with his character. The character writing all-around was great. It looks like Yamaguchi (script) and Karasawa (director) for #109. And Tomioka (script) and Mitsuka (director) for the landmark #110. Much respect for all of the staff involved here. Even RiBrianne was somewhat entertaining. :p

Minor nitpick: Jiren no-selling that black hole explosion point blank was suspect. The animators could have had him at least shielding himself. Everyone else in the area was blown completely off their feet. Oh well.

Hit VS Jiren. This is going to be good (I hope).

How about that ending, with Freeza standing over Goku? Looks like Freeza is going to get Goku back on his feet (ulterior motives, I'm sure).

The insert song - I wasn't feeling that. A reminder that I really miss Kageyama.

The new Ending - I liked it, although something was off about it. Maybe the music with the animation pacing didn't quite match up... ?

Narrator: "The astonishing power Goku displayed. Can Goku again reach that state that even Gods fear?" Hmmm...

This is the first time in Super's run that I've watched an episode and then went back to it later in the day. There are many episodes (most) that I haven't even gone back to at all (yet). Well done. :)

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:37 am

KameNinja45 wrote: It doesn't matter what his responsibility is. At the very least, he should consider it. Which he hasn't up to this point. He doesn't care about who die in the tournament. In the slightest. Despite most of them being good, innocent people.
Also, not saving trillions of people just because it isn't your responsibility is, at the very least, pretty asshole-ish.
Why should he care? No one seems to be interested in bringing back the erased, so why should Goku. He's a martial artist, not a saint.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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