Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Telamon » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:39 pm

Kataphrut wrote: A lot of the hate for her does feel like it's rooted in macho bullshit (how dare they put this girly character in my manly man show!) which isn't constructive. However, it can't be denied that they mishandled her here, which is what's causing these arguments to flare up. Though the animation in her fight was fun, there was no dynamic with Goku and she just felt like she was there to give him something to do before Jiren showed up. That's another thing; by all objective measures, she's a way better character than Jiren, and yet who wasn't breathing a sigh of relief when it looked like he was going to take over the fight?
To be fair, i like her base form a lot more. Now she`s like this uninspired fat blob teletubby. Would have loved to see it being changed around, as in her base form being that fat teletubby and when transforming into that sweet looking lady turning out that she would be strong as hell forcing the sayans to go SSB against her. That would be a sight to see in my opinion.

Which would adhere to Toriyama`s love for making weak looking characters very powerful too.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Metrite » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:52 pm

TheOne wrote:I invite you to watch the kid Buu fight again, because you borderline don't know what you're talking about. If that was the case, the use of Hercule would not have been necessary. Hercule had to speak on their behalf because people were NOT giving them energy.
Okay. *rereads all of Kanzenban 34* Sorry, but from what I see, it is clearly as I said before. Right there on page 150 Goku clearly says he could get a little energy from everybody but it wouldn't be near enough to beat Buu. That's why they needed Mr Satan, because a little wouldn't be enough, they needed all of it.
When Goku takes the "involuntary" energy, it's from the earth, trees and all that nature crap. Not from human beings.
Hmm... *pulls out Kanzenban 15 and turns to page 38* Sorry, but Kiaou right there specifically mentions people as something the Genki Dama take a little energy from. I think the guy that invented the technique would know how it works. That goes right along with what Goku said against Buu about taking a little from everybody not being enough. This all clearly explains that Goku can get a little energy from people without them offering, but if he wants all of it like was necessary against Buu then they have to offer it up willingly.
You conveniently skipped over my other points and just focused on attempting to debunk these statements. Care to elaborate on my other statements?
Everything else was addressed in the points I did make, so I didn't find any need to repeat myself. And I really hope the response here isn't, "Quit ignoring my main point: The fact that Goku needed people to offer their energy against Buu proves he can't get any without cooperation." I have already addressed that twice, and don't like circular discussions where point A is brought up and then point B is explained by the next person so the first person brings up point A again despite it already being thoroughly addressed.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:53 pm

Telamon wrote:First off, these 2 episodes were absolutely fabulous.
- The Genki-dama controversy is actually very logically. If you somewhat scale the powers of the Z gang vs regular humans, it only strengthens the point that they are so ridiculously powerful. Just goten or trunks would accumulate 5 times the power of the whole world combined probably, which is why just getting the power of U7 team would do millions of times more effect than the added 0.1% power of the regular humans on earth. This still would make it inconsistent with Namek Genki vs Freeza (as no Z fighters gave power to that one), but oh well..
I fucking loved it, can`t wait for the next episode when his new form will get involved again! Felt like a kid again.
Most of what some pointed out comes from the Buu arc example where the Genki dama used had all the figthers Ki and it still wasn`t enough but that was to kill the unkillable.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Miracles » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Good special. Glad Jiren was the dominate force he was suppose to be. Glad Goku was kickd up and down Sesame street even in his new form.
The Genki Dama Goku used, wasn't the strongest in the entire franchise. It was nothing more than a trigger for him to get "ultra instinct."

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TheOne » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:49 pm

Olympian wrote:
Telamon wrote:First off, these 2 episodes were absolutely fabulous.
- The Genki-dama controversy is actually very logically. If you somewhat scale the powers of the Z gang vs regular humans, it only strengthens the point that they are so ridiculously powerful. Just goten or trunks would accumulate 5 times the power of the whole world combined probably, which is why just getting the power of U7 team would do millions of times more effect than the added 0.1% power of the regular humans on earth. This still would make it inconsistent with Namek Genki vs Freeza (as no Z fighters gave power to that one), but oh well..
I fucking loved it, can`t wait for the next episode when his new form will get involved again! Felt like a kid again.
Most of what some pointed out comes from the Buu arc example where the Genki dama used had all the figthers Ki and it still wasn`t enough but that was to kill the unkillable.
Right. It doesn't make sense. all the people who gave power in the Buu saga are present except for goten and Trunks. Roshi, Tien, krillin, 18, Gohan and Piccolo are all essentially around the same as they were in the Buu saga. The only ones who are much stronger are Vegeta (who didn't even give any energy) Frieza (wasn't around), and 17. Adding Frieza to the spirit bomb wouldn't of been enough to make the spirit bomb go from Kid Buu level to something that would cause Jiren to use both hands. For that to happen they would have to use so much energy, that it'd essentially render them useless for the remainder of the tournament. But somehow they managed to make this remarkably powerful Spirit Bomb that didn't take a toll on anyone physically.
Last edited by TheOne on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:50 pm

Kataphrut wrote:It seems like there is a lot of controversy over Ribrianne. Personally, while I like her and enjoyed a lot of her first appearances, I think it's safe to say she wasn't used well in these last few episodes. She had no business getting involved with Goku when she still had unfinished business with 17 and Vegeta that would've been more compelling.

A lot of the hate for her does feel like it's rooted in macho bullshit (how dare they put this girly character in my manly man show!) which isn't constructive. However, it can't be denied that they mishandled her here, which is what's causing these arguments to flare up. Though the animation in her fight was fun, there was no dynamic with Goku and she just felt like she was there to give him something to do before Jiren showed up. That's another thing; by all objective measures, she's a way better character than Jiren, and yet who wasn't breathing a sigh of relief when it looked like he was going to take over the fight?
Honestly it seem to much rooted in looks and her character having a goofy side, that is why some of the Dislike I don't take to seriously, those that don't like her at an over the top level.

If these are her only really sins those are easy to get over, Time and Story usually heals that, I just think many fans are on the edge to see crazy overly powerful fights and want very little else right now being a Tournament, I think that is what roots in this too.

I just keep saying I think Fans need to have give more, not just ask more form Toei. We need to have patience and give the storytellers a Chance with Ribrianna like fans need to give that same chance to other New characters "Seem" have problems like Caulifla, Kale, Jiren and the Pride Troopers. If Not, then when will we give New Characters a chance?! Only when they are the Ideal of Perfect right off the bat? :think:

Really they are infancy in character development going against Titans that have been around Hundreds of episodes and been with us for Decades.

Maybe We are the ones that need to have alittle Humility, Remember those times in the past watching Dragon Ball as kids and just asking the show to throw whatever Weird it can at us, we will enjoy it and give it time to progress. We seem to on edge all the time, everyone moment, to much to have fast and done facts to settle characters, Story needs to be honored.

But I feel that time is coming for many of them, the Special was the Hurtle that we had to get beyond. This is Because in the Special we Knew before then Goku or Jiren could no be ringed-out until they had their Big Fight. But NOW that is done, it is Free Reign and now every character is Up for Grabs to go or not. It is not just stalling until the fight happens anymore, the final act is here and I believe Ribrianne, Caulifla and Kale and others will have their Major Moments to develop more.

I Predicted that Ribrianne would survive the Special when many said No........I was RIGHT on that! ;)

So with that, I feel with that Hurtle of the special finally out of the way, the next stage of her character will begin soon. I can always be wrong, but I feel the next few episode Ribranne will undergo some major character moments that will change her up cause now the stalling until the Goku-v-Jiren fight is over, the limits are now gone.

We will see but I have a decent belief in this. :thumbup:
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Bullza » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:16 am

The singer who did the track in the latest episode didn't have anything to do with Toriko by any chance did he?

As soon as I heard that track it reminded me of that anime. Did he do one of the opening songs for that series?

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:53 am

Telamon wrote:
Kataphrut wrote: A lot of the hate for her does feel like it's rooted in macho bullshit (how dare they put this girly character in my manly man show!) which isn't constructive. However, it can't be denied that they mishandled her here, which is what's causing these arguments to flare up. Though the animation in her fight was fun, there was no dynamic with Goku and she just felt like she was there to give him something to do before Jiren showed up. That's another thing; by all objective measures, she's a way better character than Jiren, and yet who wasn't breathing a sigh of relief when it looked like he was going to take over the fight?
To be fair, i like her base form a lot more. Now she`s like this uninspired fat blob teletubby. Would have loved to see it being changed around, as in her base form being that fat teletubby and when transforming into that sweet looking lady turning out that she would be strong as hell forcing the sayans to go SSB against her. That would be a sight to see in my opinion.

Which would adhere to Toriyama`s love for making weak looking characters very powerful too.
I see a lot of that, "ooh, I prefer her base form". Thing is, that's missing the point of the joke. Her base form looks like a generically pretty shoujo character, so to have her turn into this portly woman when she transforms is part of the joke. Not to mention the fact that to her and most of the people in Universe 2, that form is viewed as the beautiful form. It's not the smartest joke in the world, but squint hard enough and you might see something about the shallowness of societal definitions of beauty.

It still fits with in the Toriyama standard of unassuming power because in Magical Girl conventions, being petite and beautiful IS a sign of power, whereas being fat is not.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Asura » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:46 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Telamon wrote:
Kataphrut wrote: A lot of the hate for her does feel like it's rooted in macho bullshit (how dare they put this girly character in my manly man show!) which isn't constructive. However, it can't be denied that they mishandled her here, which is what's causing these arguments to flare up. Though the animation in her fight was fun, there was no dynamic with Goku and she just felt like she was there to give him something to do before Jiren showed up. That's another thing; by all objective measures, she's a way better character than Jiren, and yet who wasn't breathing a sigh of relief when it looked like he was going to take over the fight?
To be fair, i like her base form a lot more. Now she`s like this uninspired fat blob teletubby. Would have loved to see it being changed around, as in her base form being that fat teletubby and when transforming into that sweet looking lady turning out that she would be strong as hell forcing the sayans to go SSB against her. That would be a sight to see in my opinion.

Which would adhere to Toriyama`s love for making weak looking characters very powerful too.
I see a lot of that, "ooh, I prefer her base form". Thing is, that's missing the point of the joke. Her base form looks like a generically pretty shoujo character, so to have her turn into this portly woman when she transforms is part of the joke. Not to mention the fact that to her and most of the people in Universe 2, that form is viewed as the beautiful form. It's not the smartest joke in the world, but squint hard enough and you might see something about the shallowness of societal definitions of beauty.

It still fits with in the Toriyama standard of unassuming power because in Magical Girl conventions, being petite and beautiful IS a sign of power, whereas being fat is not.
Has anyone ever considered Toriyama's sense in humor kind of sucks?

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Bullza » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:00 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Bullza wrote:There's a video on YouTube with these two episodes that already has 4.7 million views.
I know the video you're referring to. Its the double episode/special with Spanish subtitles.

It should be noted that the Latin American fandom for Dragon Ball is enormous. It's the biggest Dragon Ball fandom outside of Japan. Yes, even bigger than the fandom in North America.
Yeah some of the comments are saying that it's in the top trending videos in their country like Argentina and Colombia.

Resurrection F made a good amount of its money in all these South American countries.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:01 am

Bullza wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Bullza wrote:There's a video on YouTube with these two episodes that already has 4.7 million views.
I know the video you're referring to. Its the double episode/special with Spanish subtitles.

It should be noted that the Latin American fandom for Dragon Ball is enormous. It's the biggest Dragon Ball fandom outside of Japan. Yes, even bigger than the fandom in North America.
Yeah some of the comments are saying that it's in the top trending videos in their country like Argentina and Colombia.

Resurrection F made a good amount of its money in all these South American countries.
If I recall correctly, outside of Japan, Resurrection F made money Latin America than in other part of the world where the movie was released.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by precita » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:18 am

I don't get it, why is the Latin American fandom bigger than the American one? Dragonball was tremendously popular in the U.S. due to the FUNimation dub

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by MajinMan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:59 am

precita wrote:I don't get it, why is the Latin American fandom bigger than the American one? Dragonball was tremendously popular in the U.S. due to the FUNimation dub
Because it aired over there before it did in the USA. And they like it more than we do, I guess.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:08 am

MajinMan wrote:
precita wrote:I don't get it, why is the Latin American fandom bigger than the American one? Dragonball was tremendously popular in the U.S. due to the FUNimation dub
Because it aired over there before it did in the USA. And they like it more than we do, I guess.
I also think they saw the entire original Dragon Ball before Z, while the US only got into Dragon Ball with Z.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:04 am

Asura wrote: Has anyone ever considered Toriyama's sense in humor kind of sucks?
You mean poop jokes and sexual harassment aren't the pinnacle of highbrow humor? :P

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:07 am

TheOne wrote:
Olympian wrote:
Telamon wrote:First off, these 2 episodes were absolutely fabulous.
- The Genki-dama controversy is actually very logically. If you somewhat scale the powers of the Z gang vs regular humans, it only strengthens the point that they are so ridiculously powerful. Just goten or trunks would accumulate 5 times the power of the whole world combined probably, which is why just getting the power of U7 team would do millions of times more effect than the added 0.1% power of the regular humans on earth. This still would make it inconsistent with Namek Genki vs Freeza (as no Z fighters gave power to that one), but oh well..
I fucking loved it, can`t wait for the next episode when his new form will get involved again! Felt like a kid again.
Most of what some pointed out comes from the Buu arc example where the Genki dama used had all the figthers Ki and it still wasn`t enough but that was to kill the unkillable.
Right. It doesn't make sense. all the people who gave power in the Buu saga are present except for goten and Trunks. Roshi, Tien, krillin, 18, Gohan and Piccolo are all essentially around the same as they were in the Buu saga. The only ones who are much stronger are Vegeta (who didn't even give any energy) Frieza (wasn't around), and 17. Adding Frieza to the spirit bomb wouldn't of been enough to make the spirit bomb go from Kid Buu level to something that would cause Jiren to use both hands. For that to happen they would have to use so much energy, that it'd essentially render them useless for the remainder of the tournament. But somehow they managed to make this remarkably powerful Spirit Bomb that didn't take a toll on anyone physically.
How do you figure that? How can anyone claim that most aren`t stronger when you see what Roshi and Kuririn have done so far?

And the point is a double edge sword. This Genki-dama wasn`t used for the same purpose or manner than the one used to kill Buu.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Olympian » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:14 am

precita wrote:I don't get it, why is the Latin American fandom bigger than the American one? Dragonball was tremendously popular in the U.S. due to the FUNimation dub
By the time US gets hot with "Z", Dragonball was already crazy popular in those countries with the whole Manga series translated, etc. Also, I`m going to guess, simple more fans by the number.
Ki Breaker wrote:

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:27 am

Lord Beerus wrote:If I recall correctly, outside of Japan, Resurrection F made money Latin America than in other part of the world where the movie was released.
Ugh, typos. I meant to say:
If I recall correctly, outside of Japan, Resurrection F made more money in Latin America than in any other part of the world where the movie was also released.
HeroR wrote:
MajinMan wrote:
precita wrote:I don't get it, why is the Latin American fandom bigger than the American one? Dragonball was tremendously popular in the U.S. due to the FUNimation dub
Because it aired over there before it did in the USA. And they like it more than we do, I guess.
I also think they saw the entire original Dragon Ball before Z, while the US only got into Dragon Ball with Z.
Yes, the first Dragon Ball anime aired in Latin America around 95-96. The fandom for Dragon Ball in Latin America exploded from that point and took off to even further heights when Z came later around 99'.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Saturnine » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:32 am

Bullza wrote:
HeroR wrote:Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z only had 15% filler.
Not even remotely close. You're basing that off of that website which is only going by if it's a 100% filler episode. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z filler was not like that or like how filler is done today where it's kept separate. A huge chunk of each episode was pure filler.

Up to the end of the Android arc, Dragon Ball Z ran for 194 episodes. Dragon Ball Kai covered the same material in 98 episodes and considering that even Kai had some filler means about 50% and more of that show was filler.
This is exactly right. Bitch, even stuff like Ultimate Gohan vs Gotenks Buu was filler as fuck. And this is one example of when filler is actually harmful, since it gave the viewers the wrong idea about where Gohan actually stands in power compared to Buu (in the manga the fight was over much, much quicker).
BlueBasilisk wrote:
Asura wrote: Has anyone ever considered Toriyama's sense in humor kind of sucks?
You mean poop jokes and sexual harassment aren't the pinnacle of highbrow humor? :P
I'll still take that over any example of Toei writers trying to unsuccessfully emulate that. Or be funny overall.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by TheOne » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:59 am

Olympian wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Olympian wrote: Most of what some pointed out comes from the Buu arc example where the Genki dama used had all the figthers Ki and it still wasn`t enough but that was to kill the unkillable.
Right. It doesn't make sense. all the people who gave power in the Buu saga are present except for goten and Trunks. Roshi, Tien, krillin, 18, Gohan and Piccolo are all essentially around the same as they were in the Buu saga. The only ones who are much stronger are Vegeta (who didn't even give any energy) Frieza (wasn't around), and 17. Adding Frieza to the spirit bomb wouldn't of been enough to make the spirit bomb go from Kid Buu level to something that would cause Jiren to use both hands. For that to happen they would have to use so much energy, that it'd essentially render them useless for the remainder of the tournament. But somehow they managed to make this remarkably powerful Spirit Bomb that didn't take a toll on anyone physically.
How do you figure that? How can anyone claim that most aren`t stronger when you see what Roshi and Kuririn have done so far?

And the point is a double edge sword. This Genki-dama wasn`t used for the same purpose or manner than the one used to kill Buu.
Are you really trying to fight me on this? Krillin took 7 years off from fighting after the cell games. Barely fought in the Buu Saga, and retired from fighting again. He just recently became active and all of a sudden he's a powerhouse? Not likely. The same thing for Roshi.

What does the purpose have to do with anything? if you're trying to kill someone, you're going to give it all you've got right? Kid Buu was a very desperate situation, so by your logic it should be stronger than what Jirens Spirit Bomb was used for right? Both uses of the Spirit Bomb were used to save the universe. This Spirit Bomb was a last resort and had no logical reason to be as powerful as it was. I'm surprised at how people don't see this. Are these people new fans or something?
How i predict the tournament will end:

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