Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:35 pm

Asura wrote:Queue people causing a shitstorm over Hit > UI Goku.

I think it does make sense though. Goku fought Jiren with brute strength, he didn't have any special techniques or tricks up his sleeve aside from the Spirit Bomb, and all Kaioken did was make him more powerful. In contrast, Hit is a very technical character with a unique fighting style that Jiren will probably have a little difficulty at first getting used to in addition to Hit's ability to constantly evolve and get stronger as he fights, but I fully expect Jiren to get the hang of Hit's techniques down and then curb-stomp him.
Looking at the crater on Jiren's chest, that seems to be the same lethal punch he used to "kill" Goku during their last brawl. Jiren's still standing after the hit in the preview but it knocks him away pretty hard.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:43 pm

Asura wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Someone on the DBZ subreddit pointed out this really quick frame in the NEP:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Looks like Jiren's not so invincible after all. Right after this he goes into a backflip and goes sliding through some rocks.
Queue people causing a shitstorm over Hit > UI Goku.

I think it does make sense though. Goku fought Jiren with brute strength, he didn't have any special techniques or tricks up his sleeve aside from the Spirit Bomb, and all Kaioken did was make him more powerful. In contrast, Hit is a very technical character with a unique fighting style that Jiren will probably have a little difficulty at first getting used to in addition to Hit's ability to constantly evolve and get stronger as he fights, but I fully expect Jiren to get the hang of Hit's techniques down and then curb-stomp him.
Also while Goku may not have done much, youd have to think Jiren used up SOME energy fighting against him in UI form. They make a point to say Gokus attacks are finally causing some damage.

That combined with what you said is my personal belief.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:45 pm

Looks like Hit continues to be hax personified. But will it be enough to save him from the might of power levels personified?

That's basically what the next fight boils down to: hax vs. power levels.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by majinwarman » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:32 pm

The special was absolutely great and made path the some much story to this arc. The ultra instinct form was very different than the traditional super Saiyan forms. Plus, the form running out gives Goku more time to master the form. The fight was well written and well directed. My only hope is that Hit doesn't become what Vegeta tends to be. Someone the main rival or bad guy flexes on as a show of power. Jiren could possibly become the winner of the arc but my money is still on Freeza. Overall, this special lived up the hype and gets an 10 out of 10 for me.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Miracles » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:23 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Looks like Hit continues to be hax personified. But will it be enough to save him from the might of power levels personified?

That's basically what the next fight boils down to: hax vs. power levels.
Power levels always wins.
Hit is getting blown up in the preview.
Last edited by Miracles on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:11 pm

Asura wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:Someone on the DBZ subreddit pointed out this really quick frame in the NEP:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Looks like Jiren's not so invincible after all. Right after this he goes into a backflip and goes sliding through some rocks.
Queue people causing a shitstorm over Hit > UI Goku.

I think it does make sense though. Goku fought Jiren with brute strength, he didn't have any special techniques or tricks up his sleeve aside from the Spirit Bomb, and all Kaioken did was make him more powerful. In contrast, Hit is a very technical character with a unique fighting style that Jiren will probably have a little difficulty at first getting used to in addition to Hit's ability to constantly evolve and get stronger as he fights, but I fully expect Jiren to get the hang of Hit's techniques down and then curb-stomp him.
The way I see it, transformations in Super are symbolic of how much effort the fighter is putting into the fight. So when Goku is fighting base, it means he's goofing around. When he's SSJ, it means he's putting some spine to it. When he's Blue, he's going all out. When he becomes Ultra, it means he surpassed himself and giving every bit of his soul into the fight, and THEN some. I don't think it's about numbers anymore.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Noah » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:10 am

Trying to get into Goku's mind: what was his plan with the Genkidama? We all know it's his ultimate technique used as last resort, but he expected to work on Jiren? (not talking about the energy collected) Because if had worked he would be disqualified for killing his opponent, did he thought about that or he was just testing Jiren as usual? :think:
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by MaskedRider » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:47 am

Noah wrote:Trying to get into Goku's mind: what was his plan with the Genkidama? We all know it's his ultimate technique used as last resort, but he expected to work on Jiren? (not talking about the energy collected) Because if had worked he would be disqualified for killing his opponent, did he thought about that or he was just testing Jiren as usual? :think:
Maybe Goku thought that eventually Jiren would have to give in to the force of the struggle thinking this guy has a limit and will tire? Though Jiren wasn't the one who fell :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:54 am

Noah wrote:Trying to get into Goku's mind: what was his plan with the Genkidama? We all know it's his ultimate technique used as last resort, but he expected to work on Jiren? (not talking about the energy collected) Because if had worked he would be disqualified for killing his opponent, did he thought about that or he was just testing Jiren as usual? :think:
Jiren was the big threat, if the Spirit Bomb did kill Jiren, Goku took out the biggest threat and if that means he was DQ'd then I'm sure Goku would take that. U7 still more than capable of cleaning up if Jiren was gone without Goku.

That's why I don't like the DQ for killing rule that's just seems minor, "oh you killed your opponent you're DQ'd then". I wish they made it so if you kill you get erased off the spot.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:29 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Noah wrote:Trying to get into Goku's mind: what was his plan with the Genkidama? We all know it's his ultimate technique used as last resort, but he expected to work on Jiren? (not talking about the energy collected) Because if had worked he would be disqualified for killing his opponent, did he thought about that or he was just testing Jiren as usual? :think:
Jiren was the big threat, if the Spirit Bomb did kill Jiren, Goku took out the biggest threat and if that means he was DQ'd then I'm sure Goku would take that. U7 still more than capable of cleaning up if Jiren was gone without Goku.

That's why I don't like the DQ for killing rule that's just seems minor, "oh you killed your opponent you're DQ'd then". I wish they made it so if you kill you get erased off the spot.
I thought he was using the Spirit Bomb to push Jiren out of the arena.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:29 am

Pluto wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
I'm wondering if they did it to validate him having enough power to kick Ribrianne away, but as the same time this would imply that all power-donators are now at minimum strength, and I'm pretty sure that ain't the case.

OR, maybe they had Vegeta reject the donation to seem like an ass, but then redeem himself by shielding Goku from the Love Heroine (making the audience go 'there, see? He's still a hero!') Not sure.
Vegeta never even donated for the spirit bomb against boo. he came up with the idea sure but he didn't give any energy himself. i thought it was stupid at first but then saved goku from ribrianne. it did seem just out of pride but he isn't stupid either.
That Genkidama wouldve been a lot stronger if that guy raised his hand, probably saw Frieza doing it and got all jealous...
Why would he get jealous seeing freeza do it? that makes no sense. he simply didn't want to do it plus I'm sure it was also for energy conservation. like i said, he never even raised his hand when he came up with the idea for Boo.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:31 am

KidGoku>3 wrote:Well UI is a skill. Like Whis said mind without mind fighting without thinking. It's not a visual effect. It's changing the WAY you fight not the way you look.
Goku looks vastly different from any other transformation. So UI is definately NOT a transformation. It's a skll you attain in whatever form you are. A skill that can be amplified with the form you are in but not related to a form. When Whis taught him this lesson about fighting without thinking Whis never knew about this transformation all he knew was SSB/SSG and based on that he said it was attainable for them.

I think people get confused and think UI is the form. When it's a skill, accompanied with a new form.

I really am not a big fan of the blue transformation aka SSB so I hope this new form is here to stay for a while. Cause it is legit the best transformation ever, bar none.
And I don't even think this is his full transformation, it's like he tapped into a small % of what its capable of. We've yet to see his slit pupils, or spiky hair or the more present vivid aura. That mastered form combined with the UI skill is going to be so lit. This is like a small taste of what is coming. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.
what you so in the promo art is what you pretty much saw in the episode. he never had slit pupils.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:33 am

Nero<>Akira wrote:
KidGoku>3 wrote:Well UI is a skill. Like Whis said mind without mind fighting without thinking. It's not a visual effect. It's changing the WAY you fight not the way you look.
Goku looks vastly different from any other transformation. So UI is definately NOT a transformation. It's a skll you attain in whatever form you are. A skill that can be amplified with the form you are in but not related to a form. When Whis taught him this lesson about fighting without thinking Whis never knew about this transformation all he knew was SSB/SSG and based on that he said it was attainable for them.

I think people get confused and think UI is the form. When it's a skill, accompanied with a new form.

I really am not a big fan of the blue transformation aka SSB so I hope this new form is here to stay for a while. Cause it is legit the best transformation ever, bar none.
And I don't even think this is his full transformation, it's like he tapped into a small % of what its capable of. We've yet to see his slit pupils, or spiky hair or the more present vivid aura. That mastered form combined with the UI skill is going to be so lit. This is like a small taste of what is coming. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.
what you so in the promo art is what you pretty much saw in the episode. he never had slit pupils.
Indeed. People thinking that the promotional art of Goku's Ultra Instinct state has slit pupils like a cat are sorely mistaken. That's just the glint of light glare obscuring the pupils a bit.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:45 am

By the way, people need to stop perpetuating this belief that "the spirit bomb is weak" just because of the amount of people. This spirit bomb had the spirit energy of all of universe 7 minus Goku & Vegeta. spirit energy is exponentially more stronger than basic ki. that's why an attack like Tri Beam did what it did to Cell. This thing had 2 SSB+ tier spirit energies which were from Gohan & Freeza and also 17 who is so much more stronger than even SSJ3 Goku post training with Whis & the Time Chamber. Then add the spirit energies of fighters who aren't that level at all but much stronger than before like Piccolo, 18, Krillin, Tien, & Roshi. People may say "but look at how much energy was used against Kid Boo". Gohan, if taken to the Kai realm, would have killed Boo. Even Goku was excited at first thinking Vegeta simply wanted Gohan & Gotenks to fight. Vegeta didn't want to take chances and just wanted as much energy as possible to obliterate him since his regeneration was ridiculous. Once Goku had all his stamina back, Boo couldn't do anything at all even with a SSJ Goku pushing the spirit bomb. the fighters in U7 right now are way higher than their boo counterparts. its not even funny. Do i need to mention Gohan & Freeza's levels again & how much higher it would be with spirit energy & no ki? This was the strongest spirit bomb to date in the story.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by KidGoku>3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:58 am

Is Jiren evil ? Or at least have a dark side ?

I ask because a fighter fighting for justice would NEVER stomp an opponent who is down on his back like that. Goku was down on his hands not even a threat and Jiren stomped and tried crushing Goku with his foot.That's the stuff villains do. What Freeza would do. That combined with the clown GODs behavior around him makes it even more suspicious.
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:
KidGoku>3 wrote:Well UI is a skill. Like Whis said mind without mind fighting without thinking. It's not a visual effect. It's changing the WAY you fight not the way you look.
Goku looks vastly different from any other transformation. So UI is definately NOT a transformation. It's a skll you attain in whatever form you are. A skill that can be amplified with the form you are in but not related to a form. When Whis taught him this lesson about fighting without thinking Whis never knew about this transformation all he knew was SSB/SSG and based on that he said it was attainable for them.

I think people get confused and think UI is the form. When it's a skill, accompanied with a new form.

I really am not a big fan of the blue transformation aka SSB so I hope this new form is here to stay for a while. Cause it is legit the best transformation ever, bar none.
And I don't even think this is his full transformation, it's like he tapped into a small % of what its capable of. We've yet to see his slit pupils, or spiky hair or the more present vivid aura. That mastered form combined with the UI skill is going to be so lit. This is like a small taste of what is coming. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.
what you so in the promo art is what you pretty much saw in the episode. he never had slit pupils.
Indeed. People thinking that the promotional art of Goku's Ultra Instinct state has slit pupils like a cat are sorely mistaken. That's just the glint of light glare obscuring the pupils a bit.
Well first of all UI is an ability. Not a form.

And I doubt this is just for a promo art. What we saw there, we still haven't seen in the show. We still haven't seen the spiky hair, shirtless, many shades of red and blue aura on him.

Image

Image

But if this really is just for promo and not the actual form than I will apologize for being wrong. Until then I'm not getting my hopes crushed.

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:09 am

KidGoku>3 wrote:Is Jiren evil ? Or at least have a dark side ?

I ask because a fighter fighting for justice would NEVER stomp an opponent who is down on his back like that. Goku was down on his hands not even a threat and Jiren stomped and tried crushing Goku with his foot.That's the stuff villains do. What Freeza would do. That combined with the clown GODs behavior around him makes it even more suspicious.
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:
what you so in the promo art is what you pretty much saw in the episode. he never had slit pupils.
Indeed. People thinking that the promotional art of Goku's Ultra Instinct state has slit pupils like a cat are sorely mistaken. That's just the glint of light glare obscuring the pupils a bit.
Well first of all UI is an ability. Not a form.

And I doubt this is just for a promo art. What we saw there, we still haven't seen in the show. We still haven't seen the spiky hair, shirtless, many shades of red and blue aura on him.

Image

Image

But if this really is just for promo and not the actual form than I will apologize for being wrong. Until then I'm not getting my hopes crushed.
That looks exactly like what i saw in the episode minus him having a shirt and the red aura. 2 different artists too. it was even used as an eyecatcher
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:11 am

Whether or not those particular images are from later into the show or not was irrelevant. He doesn't have thinned pupils like a cat. Just want to make sure nobody makes that mistake anymore.

In fact, that's like the white glint in Jiren's eyes. Those white dots aren't actually Jiren's pupils, it's just a glare of some sort that's constantly present. His pupils are the big black dots taking up most of his eyes, and his irises are the grey outlining. Or maybe they're just the sclera, who knows with this grey mofo :P

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by KidGoku>3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:37 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Whether or not those particular images are from later into the show or not was irrelevant. He doesn't have thinned pupils like a cat. Just want to make sure nobody makes that mistake anymore.

In fact, that's like the white glint in Jiren's eyes. Those white dots aren't actually Jiren's pupils, it's just a glare of some sort that's constantly present. His pupils are the big black dots taking up most of his eyes, and his irises are the grey outlining. Or maybe they're just the sclera, who knows with this grey mofo :P
Yeah you're right. Bummer. :cry:

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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by Noah » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:42 am

KidGoku>3 wrote:Is Jiren evil ? Or at least have a dark side?

I ask because a fighter fighting for justice would NEVER stomp an opponent who is down on his back like that. Goku was down on his hands not even a threat and Jiren stomped and tried crushing Goku with his foot.That's the stuff villains do. What Freeza would do. That combined with the clown GODs behavior around him makes it even more suspicious.
You're right and as said before here: Jiren differs much from the Pride Troopers, with their goofy poses and lame speeches about justice. That's why I expected to see more of his background in these episodes, but he kept being the same guy that is just pretty strong and nothing else. The arc still not over, so they can show more about Jiren's character.
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Re: Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

Post by omaro34 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:56 am

I posted this in another thread because that's where the conversation led to but I should post it here given that its an episode thread.

In regards to Vegeta not lending out his energy for the spirit bomb: Where was the Vegeta that was incredibly honorable in the Buu arc? Where was the Vegeta that died trying to protect the lives of those he really cared about? Keep in mind Vegeta was the one who orchestrated the whole Spirit Bomb idea to Goku when they fought Kid Buu. He tried to convince the humans on Earth to lend a helping hand and give their energy.

Now we fast forward to this, Freeza helping Goku but not Vegeta just means his character still has maturing to do; it's a regression in his character. Or bad writing.
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